[LarsHP]

There are 2 opamp chips on the ladder module, each next to the red block (WIMA) cap. This is undoubtly the audio path. On the photo (attached) traces for the ladder differential output are marked with yellow arrows. Orange arrows point to the traces from the opamp output, in the place one channel meets another.

What @FredA shows in the post above can be also audio path, not sure.

This is also the digital section, which doesn't "count". It's the analog signal path, which is without op-amps, when designers refer to their DAC's or amps being "fully discrete".

 

[FredA]

This is also the digital section, which doesn't "count". It's the analog signal path, which is without op-amps, when designers refer to their DAC's or amps being "fully discrete".

Integrated opamps are not discrete. But they are linear. Technically, Gustard would not be lying if indeed they are in the signal path, which seems to be the case. Because they are not part of the output stage per say.

 

[sajunky]

This is also the digital section, which doesn't "count". It's the analog signal path, which is without op-amps, when designers refer to their DAC's or amps being "fully discrete".

Not at all. Output of the ladder is a beginning of the analogue path. Opamps are in the signal path!

I thought I would not need to argue on such obvious things. Can you stop arguing, ask someone you trust and come back later or just acknowledge that Gustard lied to you?

 

[sajunky]

Because they are not part of the output stage per say.

They say that amplification is fully discrete. It means the entire analogue signal path, not only the output buffer.

 

[FredA]

They say that amplification is fully discrete. It means the entire analogue signal path, not only the output buffer.

To their default defense, it is likely not uncommon in IC converters to use opamps at the output.

 

[LarsHP]

Not at all. Output of the ladder is a beginning of the analogue path. Opamps are in the signal path!

I thought I would not need to argue on such obvious things. Can you stop arguing, ask someone you trust and come back later or just acknowledge that Gustard lied to you?

I may or may not be right, but both Sandu Vitalie (the reviewer at Sound News) and Gustard themselves say that the (analog section of) R26 is built discrete. Then you and FredA say no, that's not true. I am not an engineer, so I am not in a position to say what's right or not, but - no offense to you guys here - I trust the designers at Gustard and a technically knowledgeable reviewer both say it is so.

Integrated circuits are per definition not discrete. We of course agree about that.

 

[FredA]

I may or may not be right, but both Sandu Vitalie (the reviewer at Sound News) and Gustard themselves say that the (analog section of) R26 is built discrete. Then you and FredA say no, that's not true. I am not an engineer, so I am not in a position to say what's right or not, but - no offense to you guys here - I trust the designers at Gustard and a technically knowledgeable reviewer both say it is so.

Integrated circuits are per definition not discrete. We of course agree about that.

Agreed on all points. If i had the dac with me, i could.tell for sure. And as i said, Gustard is not lying. What they designate as the analog section does not include the conversion board.. What matters is how the dac sounds.

 

[sajunky]

I may or may not be right, but both Sandu Vitalie (the reviewer at Sound News) and Gustard themselves say that the (analog section of) R26 is built discrete. Then you and FredA say no, that's not true. I am not an engineer, so I am not in a position to say what's right or not, but - no offense to you guys here - I trust the designers at Gustard and a technically knowledgeable reviewer both say it is so.

No offense, but Sabdu wrote a crap and you confirm of being a follower without taking a secondary opinion seriously. Gustard engineers wrote other things, that DSD with Direct option use R2R ladder, then under user's pressure they have changed their mind and finally they say it use dedicated DSD ladder. It doesn't make engineering sense (as bitstream (1-bit) ladder consists just one resistor, but it satisfied those who criticised them. It not important, as DSD64 1-bit decoding sounds like a crap, but it shows that they will just tell what people want to hear.

 

[FredA]

No offense, but Sabdu wrote a crap and you confirm of being a follower without taking a secondary opinion seriously. Gustard engineers wrote other things, that DSD with Direct option use R2R ladder, then under user's pressure they have change their mind and finally they say it use dedicated DSD ladder. It doesn't make engineering sense (as bitstream (1-bit) ladder consists just one resistor, but it satisfied those who criticised them. It not important, as DSD64 1-bit decoding sounds like a crap, but it shows that they will just tell what people want to hear.

The latest dsd decoders generate multibit samples. So it would make sense.

 

[sajunky]

The latest dsd decoders generate multibit samples. So it would make sense.

True, but they explicitly say that a Direct DSD option use the (obsolete) one-bit decoding. This is confirmed by users that SACD (DSD64) sounds inferior. It has to be upsampled at least to DSD256 bringing performance level to the current standards.

 

[FredA]

True, but they explicitly say that a Direct DSD option use the (obsolete) one-bit decoding. This is confirmed by users that SACD (DSD64) sounds inferior. It has to be upsampled at least to DSD256 bringing performance level to the current standards.

Good to know for those who intented to play dsd64. They will have to upsample to dsd256 or more.

 

[LarsHP]

No offense, but Sabdu wrote a crap and you confirm of being a follower without taking a secondary opinion seriously. Gustard engineers wrote other things, that DSD with Direct option use R2R ladder, then under user's pressure they have changed their mind and finally they say it use dedicated DSD ladder. It doesn't make engineering sense (as bitstream (1-bit) ladder consists just one resistor, but it satisfied those who criticised them. It not important, as DSD64 1-bit decoding sounds like a crap, but it shows that they will just tell what people want to hear.

First you say "no offense", and then you mistype the reviewer's name and call what he wrote crap. Then you continue by calling me "a follower without taking a secondary opinion seriously", while that "second opinion" was in fact yours... All that leads me to think that you in reality are offended.

Sorry about that. I don't want to get into a personal fight over this, so I will leave it there.

 

[sajunky]

First you say "no offense", and then you mistype the reviewer's name and call what he wrote crap. Then you continue by calling me "a follower without taking a secondary opinion seriously", while that "second opinion" was in fact yours... All that leads me to think that you in reality are offended.

Sorry about that. I don't want to get into a personal fight over this, so I will leave it there.

You wrote that you trust one reviewer and someone (unnamed) from Gustard more than anybody else (not pointing my name, so I can't take it as an offense) and you were not interested in a second opinion. That is. Important is the later. Why you didn't disclose your attitude from the beginning?

 

[darcman]

Happy fathers day...I have been thinking about another DAC for a while now. I was thinking Holo May KTE or Terminator Plus, but dont want to spend that kind of money now. I like the Musetec MH-DA005 too. The two that really intrigue me, especially at their prospective price points are Gustard A26 & R26. Now I like detail and soundstage so making a decision for A26 or R26 is a tuff choice. Coming from the 9038s in the Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK3 deluxe I am kinda leaning towards the A26. I also like the looks and a couple of the features of the A26. I am sure I could live with either, but I am not sure if the R26 would do it for me. I also use the Innuos Phoenix USB enhanser/decrapifier so I am not sure how the would play with the Gustards. ....or would the Gustards not really be a big jump in performance???

 

[sajunky]

Happy fathers day...I have been thinking about another DAC for a while now. I was thinking Holo May KTE or Terminator Plus, but dont want to spend that kind of money now. I like the Musetec MH-DA005 too. The two that really intrigue me, especially at their prospective price points are Gustard A26 & R26. Now I like detail and soundstage so making a decision for A26 or R26 is a tuff choice. Coming from the 9038s in the Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK3 deluxe I am kinda leaning towards the A26. I also like the looks and a couple of the features of the A26. I am sure I could live with either, but I am not sure if the R26 would do it for me. I also use the Innuos Phoenix USB enhanser/decrapifier so I am not sure how the would play with the Gustards. ....or would the Gustards not really be a big jump in performance???

If you didn't try R2R DAC yet, get something with money back guarantee. Some people prefer Delta-Sigma, it also depends on music of your choice. In US it would be Bifrost 2 a good candidate for a starter. Don't go with top of line, unless you know that R2R technology is for you.