[DigitalFreak]

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New is rarely better, the IEM market is all over-the-place in terms of performance, there's been progress but the rate is slow, while quantity of releases are high. UERM are much better than the 4ai IME, but I wasn't really a fan of neither...

Yeah well I found that out the hard way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on this thread to trash the 4A I actually enjoy the earphone enough to keep it.
In your opinion do you think the BA phenomenon is over hyped?

 

[In Over My Head]

Excellent write up, thank you for you time and no BS review.

 

[warrenpchi]

First of all, well done Lachlan! 

 
Couple of random thoughts here. 
 
Let's remember that there was a time when miniaturized dynamic drivers were rather underwhelming.  It's not easy to find an atrocious IEM these days (outside of consumer-grade products), but there was a time in the not-too-distant past when they existed in spades.  When BA earphones were first introduced, they were clearly superior to those relics.  They still are.  This is the reason why I consider products like Ety's ER-4 series to be seminal breakthroughs, even to this day.
 
But then shortly after BAs came along, we all realized that maybe their LF response was a bit lacking at times?  Cue the multi-BAs and moving armatures and what-not.  Was it a perfect solution?  Not by a long shot.  But it was still better than a single BA.  And now we've got hybrids on one end, and crazy crossovers on the other.  Still not perfect, but getting better still.
 
Meanwhile, dynamic drivers have come a long, long way.  And now the entire field is wide open again.
 
For me though, the real take-home message here is it's a great time to be in this hobby.  Just that fact that there is so much work being done on all fronts, and that the opportunity exists for us to delve so deeply into the varying results of each approach, means that we have choice.  We're in the golden age of personal fidelity people, and THAT is amazing in and of itself.

 

[music_4321]

^   Tread carefully, Mr warrenpchi, you don't want to upset the Ety crowd.
 
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And to think that the EX600, which delivers a good 90% of the EX1000's sonics, could be had for $125 in the US in the good old EX1000 days...
 
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Very nice job, a_recording!

 

[a_recording]

Quote:

But it was still better than a single BA.  And now we've got hybrids on one end, and crazy crossovers on the other.  Still not perfect, but getting better still.
 
Meanwhile, dynamic drivers have come a long, long way.  And now the entire field is wide open again.
 
For me though, the real take-home message here is it's a great time to be in this hobby.  Just that fact that there is so much work being done on all fronts, and that the opportunity exists for us to delve so deeply into the varying results of each approach, means that we have choice.  We're in the golden age of personal fidelity people, and THAT is amazing in and of itself.

 
I wholeheartedly agree with your optimistic sentiment, but I would love to change the culture a bit so that people recognise that multi armature setups aren't a holy grail.
 
I think that is happening by and large anyway, since Westone and Shure are now experimenting at the low end. The only switcher from dynamics to BA's I've noticed is Sony. Vsonic has dabbled with their GR01 but I'm not sure if that is a commitment.
 
I wish JVC would come out with a single carbon nanotube dynamic driver with a balanced tuning.
 
Quote:

Very nice job, a_recording!

 
Thanks music!

 

[mastershake2393]

Whatever happened to advancements in MA drivers? Was that not actually a thing, or am I just re-imagining when MA IEM's came out?
 
It seems I haven't since I have my e-Q5's in my ears right now...
 
They SEEMED to be a good middle-ground between a BA and DD IEM, without sacrificing much. I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the e-Q5's sound for instance.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides the e-Q5, there have only been the GR-8/10, e-Q7, and FI-BA-SB. I'm a bit rusty where newer IEMs are concerned since I haven't been 'round these parts in awhile.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Whatever happened to advancements in MA drivers? Was that not actually a thing, or am I just re-imagining when MA IEM's came out?
 
It seems I haven't since I have my e-Q5's in my ears right now...
 
They SEEMED to be a good middle-ground between a BA and DD IEM, without sacrificing much. I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the e-Q5's sound for instance.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides the e-Q5, there have only been the GR-8/10, e-Q7, and FI-BA-SB. I'm a bit rusty where newer IEMs are concerned since I haven't been 'round these parts in awhile.

 
The FI-BA-SB (aka Heaven S), FI-BA-SS, and the older FAD Heaven models did not use MAs (moving armatures) but something different FAD called BAM (balanced air movement).

 

[mastershake2393]

Quote:

 
The FI-BA-SB (aka Heaven S), FI-BA-SS, and the older FAD Heaven models did not use MAs (moving armatures) but something different FAD called BAM (balanced air movement).

 
Ah ok.
 
Thanks for the correction music. I'll be sure to look into it

 

[a_recording]

Quote:

Whatever happened to advancements in MA drivers? Was that not actually a thing, or am I just re-imagining when MA IEM's came out?
 
It seems I haven't since I have my e-Q5's in my ears right now...
 
They SEEMED to be a good middle-ground between a BA and DD IEM, without sacrificing much. I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the e-Q5's sound for instance.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides the e-Q5, there have only been the GR-8/10, e-Q7, and FI-BA-SB. I'm a bit rusty where newer IEMs are concerned since I haven't been 'round these parts in awhile.

 
That is a really good question. Perhaps Ortofon's sales have never been high enough to justify continued investment, or perhaps there are other issues behind the scene that we don't know about: scalability, production variation, etc.
 
When I had the EQ-5 I did indeed think it was a nice sounding earphone, but it wasn't a huge advancement to my ears.
 
Actually, something like the FXD80 is to me a bit of a holy grail because despite being a cheap and bassy IEM the high frequency extension on that thing is pretty special.
 
Quote:

The FI-BA-SB (aka Heaven S), FI-BA-SS, and the older FAD Heaven models did not use MAs (moving armatures) but something different FAD called BAM (balanced air movement).

 
^This. I think it was established that this was basically a vented BA.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Ah ok.
 
Thanks for the correction music. I'll be sure to look into it

 
Quote:

I think it was established that this was basically a vented BA.

 
Forgot to mention this BAM "mechanism" is also used in the new Heaven models (IV, V & VI), "the BAM mechanism optimises the air movement inside the housing".

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
 
Forgot to mention this BAM "mechanism" is also used in the new Heaven models (IV, V & VI), "the BAM mechanism optimises the air movement inside the housing".

 
I think it's quite different in the newer ones. The BA might be ported, but the housing is still sealed. With the  FI-BA-SS I didn't get a suction type seal, but I do with the Heaven V. The difference is that the SS' housing is also vented.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Actually, something like the FXD80 is to me a bit of a holy grail because despite being a cheap and bassy IEM the high frequency extension on that thing is pretty special.

 
Am I allowed to say that the £24.99 new-ish Apple Earpods are great-sounding phones? I actually bought my own pair (don't have any of the latest iDevices) — not just great SQ, but excellent build quality and wonderfully ergonomic—the very first time ever I've been able to wear canal phones (aka earbuds) and not have them fall off my ears.

 

[mastershake2393]

Quote:

 
Am I allowed to say that the £24.99 new-ish Apple Earpods are great-sounding phones? I actually bought my own pair (don't have any of the latest iDevices) — not just great SQ, but excellent build quality and wonderfully ergonomic—the very first time ever I've been able to wear canal phones (aka earbuds) and not have them fall off my ears.

 
You know, I looked into those awhile ago for workout purposes but never got around to buying a pair. Are they really that great?
 
Quote:

 
That is a really good question. Perhaps Ortofon's sales have never been high enough to justify continued investment, or perhaps there are other issues behind the scene that we don't know about: scalability, production variation, etc.
 
When I had the EQ-5 I did indeed think it was a nice sounding earphone, but it wasn't a huge advancement to my ears.
 
Actually, something like the FXD80 is to me a bit of a holy grail because despite being a cheap and bassy IEM the high frequency extension on that thing is pretty special.

 
Hm, I'll have to look into those.
 
A couple days ago, I nabbed a ER-4P (!) for $100, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[a_recording]

Quote:

Am I allowed to say that the £24.99 new-ish Apple Earpods are great-sounding phones? I actually bought my own pair (don't have any of the latest iDevices) — not just great SQ, but excellent build quality and wonderfully ergonomic—the very first time ever I've been able to wear canal phones (aka earbuds) and not have them fall off my ears.

 
I found them pretty good for the price yes. But they were only ergonomic for me in one ear...

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

I think it's quite different in the newer ones. The BA might be ported, but the housing is still sealed. With the  FI-BA-SS I didn't get a suction type seal, but I do with the Heaven V. The difference is that the SS' housing is also vented.

 
Haven't tried any of the new Heavens, but the BAM mechanism appears to be identical on the FI-BA-SS as well as the older Heaven models. The fact the FI-BA-SS's housings are vented may help prevent the suction effect you talk about. I still find that vented DD IEMs have less of a suction effect—actually none whatsoever—than the FI-BA-SS, btw. Even my hybrid (vented) K3003s have no suction thingy.