[wildeone]

When I was at NAMM, I had quite a few discussions with guys who mixed shows live about monitors. Each one of them had multiple monitors. One of them was moving up to the ProPhonic 2X-S from the E5 because he was encountering more and more bands that were using them and wanted to hear exactly what the band was listening to. He also owned a pair of UE-7's, I think (not the 10's but he was talking about them as well).... Bottom line is he planned on keeping all of them so he'd *always* hear what the band was hearing which made a lot of sense to me. Just as I think band members should all agree on the same sound signature as well -- whatever that may be....

Meanwhile, we should all be allowed to rave about our favourite products without everyone getting snippy about it. As for people purchasing, they're asking opinions and that is exactly what they're getting. Opinions. And we all have different ones. That's what makes this forum so wonderful. The more you read a person's posting, the more you get to know their taste and whether or not it mirrors your own. For each of us, it's whatever floats are boat and it's mighty fun to talk about it!

I'm off to NAB and now I'm kind of curious as to what everybody is using, especially as the focus is starting to turn to 5.1 surround for live broadcast. If I see (or hear) anything outstanding, I'll let you all know.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally posted by wildeone Meanwhile, we should all be allowed to rave about our favourite products without everyone getting snippy about it. As for people purchasing, they're asking opinions and that is exactly what they're getting. Opinions.

As well stated as it could ever be

 

[HRA]

Thank you to everyone for welcoming me. Much more refreshing here than other forums I've posted on. I used to frequent a forum where piano affectionados would get together and discuss the merits of that instrument. Before long you would get a few select people that would invariably put down brands such as Steinway, Bosendorfer, etc. These brands are considered the finest in the world, but not to everyone's liking.

In short, theres a big difference in stating a personal preference and outright bashing a particular brand based on heresay and inuendo. I have absolutely no relationship with Ultimate Ears or any other IEM manufacturer. As I said before, every single brand of IEM's, whether off the shelf or custom, has a place. I personally would never buy any IEM's from Sony but they sell an awful lot of units to someone.

I was asked what IEM's I own and here's the list...there's probably more but I'm a bit jet lagged from flying overseas.

Sensa Pro 2x....sitting in a draw because I can't wear them long term. They simply don't fit me right...could be due to poor audiologist fitting. UE 5 pro....currently use them...fits well and sounds excellent to my ears and taste. Shure e2, e3 and e5. I use the e5 as well. I personally loved the way the e3 fit but wasn't crazy about the sound. Assorted other brands including Sony that collect dust along with a pair of Westone...I think they are an es2 or something like that.

As I said, they all have their place amongst audiophiles and fans. If you are in a position to afford a good quality IEM you would be doing youself a disservice if you discount any particular brand based on a forum member's experience. Make your own decisions and check out all the brands you can. Good Luck.

I'm adding this bit based on a previous post....Everyone is absolutely entitled to share their personal experience about any product the forum is discussing. I take exception when you discuss a product for which you have zero personal knowledge and information and for which you are basing your assumptions on the so-called words of other people. In my opinion that is wrong and misleading to those genuinely interested in the topic at hand. There are many things in life that are not for me. That does not make them bad things or things that don't bring pleasure to other people, they are simply not to my taste or liking based on my own personal preferences not hearsay.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally posted by HRA I take exception when you discuss a product for which you have zero personal knowledge and information and for which you are basing your assumptions on the so-called words of other people.

Copy'n pasted exactly from my reply to you on iPodlounge:
-------------------------------------
While it is true I was never able to audition their sound quality, since they were not made for my ears. I have in fact held both a UE-7 and UE-10 in my own hands. I have examined a pair of UE-7 with cracks in the surface with my own eyes. I squeezed the material with my fingers. Is this complete, total heresy that you're implying that I'm basing my judgment on? Or is that type of evaluation not enough in your view?

I've researched for a whole month, contacting different people (and annoying quite a few of them) seeing if I can get a first hand look at them.. that I did. I couldn't afford to pay the money to audition one for sound quality. However, just the material differences alone caused me to sway towards the Sensaphonics. It was a hard fought battle for me, but Sensa won in the end.

So now you're saying that my month-long worth of people hunting and conversations, including personal "touching" experience with the IEM's are completely invalid reasons to base my judgment upon?

All I have to say is, to me personally, it makes a huge difference that the UE's "full-soft" material isn't enough for me. If I'm spending $800+ of my own money, I would go for the one that doesn't sacrifice any sort of comfort level.
--------------------------------------

Quote:

There are many things in life that are not for me. That does not make them bad things or things that don't bring pleasure to other people, they are simply not to my taste or liking based on my own personal preferences not hearsay

If people are asking for opinions, I'm going to give them the honest opinion and truth from my point of view. I'm not going to stray away from that to appease people who might have different taste from me one way or another. This forum is for people to have real opinions, not to say things like, "Everything has its merits, you may or may not appreciate it."

It's up to the reader to make up their own mind based on their own judgment, by providing them with no information of any usefulness whatsoever would be of no help to anybody. The whole "everything has its place" thing works with every damn headphone that's ever made. Even crappy Sony's has its place in the market, don't they?

I'm giving them the "truth from Lindrone's point of view", give'n take what you can get from it. But do not condemn me for being the one that's not backing down from giving what I really think. I'm not for diplomacy, I'm for honesty.

 

[lindrone]

hmm. .something happened with Head-Fi, this message didn't get bumped... so.. *bump*.

 

[HRA]

Lindrone,

It's 100AM where I am and I have no desire to get into an arguement with you. The fact remains you made erroneous statements about the Ultimate Ears on two different forums without firsthand knowledge, period. Holding a pair of IEM's in your hand is useless information in determining whether they will be right for you or not. Do you know how many pairs of Sensa's, UE's, Shures and Westron's I've seen that are damaged from one cause or another. I have an excellent pair of UE's right now made from their soft material and have no problems. I have another pair on the way that I won't judge until they are in my own ears and are played for an extended period of time.

The reason you've been taken to task on the other forum is because you come across as a pimp for the brand of IEM's you've chosen to use at the expense of putting down all other contenders. I could have easily said that I do not like my Sensa's because they are inferior to my preferred UE IEM's. I would never say that on a public forum because it intentionally causes other people to think that brand is inferior, which it is not. As I stated all IEM's have a place depending on individual tastes, use and cost.

I think if you read back on your posts you'll find you bring most of this stuff on yourself. By the way, I'm not attacking you personally. I only have issues with your frivolous statements. Have a good evening.

I'm posting this here as well as ipodlounge.com because you seem interested in perpertuating you inability to give this forum a clear review of your equipment without bashing another vendor's product line. With all the various IEM's that I own have I berated any of the different brands I have in my possession?

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRA Lindrone, It's 100AM where I am and I have no desire to get into an arguement with you. The fact remains you made erroneous statements about the Ultimate Ears on two different forums without firsthand knowledge, period. Holding a pair of IEM's in your hand is useless information in determining whether they will be right for you or not. Do you know how many pairs of Sensa's, UE's, Shures and Westron's I've seen that are damaged from one cause or another. I have an excellent pair of UE's right now made from their soft material and have no problems. I have another pair on the way that I won't judge until they are in my own ears and are played for an extended period of time. The reason you've been taken to task on the other forum is because you come across as a pimp for the brand of IEM's you've chosen to use at the expense of putting down all other contenders. I could have easily said that I do not like my Sensa's because they are inferior to my preferred UE IEM's. I would never say that on a public forum because it intentionally causes other people to think that brand is inferior, which it is not. As I stated all IEM's have a place depending on individual tastes, use and cost. I think if you read back on your posts you'll find you bring most of this stuff on yourself. By the way, I'm not attacking you personally. I only have issues with your frivolous statements. Have a good evening. I'm posting this here as well as ipodlounge.com because you seem interested in perpertuating you inability to give this forum a clear review of your equipment without bashing another vendor's product line. With all the various IEM's that I own have I berated any of the different brands I have in my possession?

I agree with your observations again 100% HRA. I have been called 'biased in my opinions' before by lindrone and I never really appreciated his labelling of me given the reasons you stated above about him. Again, very nicely put.

Can you perphaps give a review of how the Sensaphonics compares to the Ultimate Ears in terms of sound quality? Can you also compare it against the Shure E5? I am in the process of deciding for the ultimate high end IEM.

Cheers

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

I appreciate all the comments made so far. The only way to try and find out if you are going to follow a person's opinions is to view all of their back posts and see if these generaly match your own personal experiences.
It is impossible to try out equipment in England, since most shops use the Health and Safety regulations as an excuse to save them opening the sealed headphone boxes. Consequently, you have to rely on posts and get a general impression, and then take that stab in the dark with your first decent headphone purchase. Once you've taken the plunge, you can then narrow down the opinions that reflect your experiences on that particular product and use the views of these same people to guide you towards your next purchase.
I love biased reviews if you can appreciated that they are biased. I hate reviews, particularly in magazines where they never criticise a product and everything is always wonderfull even if in reality its a load of crap.
Overall, the diversity of opinions and arguments is the one thing that makes this forum great for both help and entertainment .

 

[HRA]

Dear DJ,

In short I feel the Sensa brand offers virtually the same quality as the Ultimate Ear brand. I personally give an edge to the UE brand for sound quality based on the 5pro that I own. I am awaiting the UE10pro model in the next week or so...molds have already been sent to them. The Sensa I have never really fit me right. As I said previously this could have been the fault of the audiologist who took the impression...or it could be the fault of Sensa. I know from time to time that both of these companies make mistakes...its just part of what they do. Personally I like the UE company better. The Harvey family have been associated with sound engineering and IEM monitoring/design for a long time. Sensa has its own claim to fame as well. To answer your question I would personally recommend the UE brand over the Sensa based on my own experience....that experience being total satisfaction with sound and quality. Its sort of like comparing a Lexus to a Mercedes....you'll be very happy with either one but they both have their loyal fans and followers.

As far as comparision to the E5's, I think the Shure brand offers the best of the IEM's available off the shelf. The E5 is a great IEM, especially if you're intested in using it for portable listening devices or if you're in a start up band and can't afford custom. I think everyone will agree that custom is the way to go, especially at the professional level. I really can't say anything bad about the E5's. What I can say is that I personally feel that a dual drive custom from the previously mentioned companies will outperform the E5 and provide more satisfaction to the end user.

In short, I've been a part of the music business for a very long time. I know what the pros in the R&R business are using, what they like and what they don't like. I am very fortunate in that I get a lot of pro equipment for free or virtually no cost which gives me the opportunity to try a lot of different products. If you are the type of person that is always looking for the best in whatever you choose, then you will most probably want custom IEM's. Yes, you'll start out with the Shure E5's but will always wonder what custom has to offer and will wind up buying them sooner or later. I say this because I've spent rediculous amounts of money on various items only to eventually buy what I should have bought in the first place...this can drive you crazy.

Anyway, good luck and don't forget to check out both Sensa and UE....if either brand were as bad as people were led to believe, the pro's would have bailed out a long time ago leaving UE to die as a company....remember that the pro's are the liveblood of these companies.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

I will have to try the UE-5 in addition to the Sensa 2X then. I was not too impressed about the sound of the E5 even though I think it is not bad. I had a chance to listen to it again this weekend. The only thing I like is the fact that it is worn over the ear and so it can be concealed easily. I wish I could use my ER4 as an IEM. I am told the Prophonics IV sounds exactly like an ER4S...who knows.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT I will have to try the UE-5 in addition to the Sensa 2X then. I was not too impressed about the sound of the E5 even though I think it is not bad. I had a chance to listen to it again this weekend. The only thing I like is the fact that it is worn over the ear and so it can be concealed easily. I wish I could use my ER4 as an IEM. I am told the Prophonics IV sounds exactly like an ER4S...who knows.

You may also have to check out the UE5c. It says they're setup for listening to mastered recordings vs live music. That's the thing I worried most about IEMs is that they're setup for an onstage live recording vs what you want from a headphone. I don't know if the consumer model would be lacking in any way. Just something to consider.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone You may also have to check out the UE5c. It says they're setup for listening to mastered recordings vs live music. That's the thing I worried most about IEMs is that they're setup for an onstage live recording vs what you want from a headphone. I don't know if the consumer model would be lacking in any way. Just something to consider.

I may not worry about that as much, now that I've got a pro-level IEM for myself... the sound and taste was very much in-line with what I was expecting and hoping for. I was warned by my audiologist of the potential loss of certain audio quality when I was moving to my 2X-S as well.

I think that information came from my inquiries with UE, and although they didn't quite explain it, maybe the UE5c is tuned more for a "consumer" sound meanwhile their Pro series has a flatter response... which would make it more audiophile taste anyway, wouldn't it?

Other questions for HRA (I've decided to stop arguing, I'm getting very childish by the minute... indeed, I was very pissed off.. but I'm better now):

Would you ever consider using E2c, ER-6 and ER-4 as IEM's? It seems to my just because of the physical design of the Etymotics, they would not fit practical usage of a concert; which has always made me wonder under which situation a pro musician would buy ER-4 and ER-6. Is the E2c good enough as a introductory level IEM for performance usage? Does it reproduce sound accurately enough for that purpose?

Also... what sort of home-rig are you using your IEM's on.. and how much qualitative difference do you notice with that sort of set-up versus using wireless receivers on stage?

 

[Welly Wu]

Let me put my two cents in here. The chief reason why I decided to get the Ultimate Ears UE-10 PRO was because my research led me to believe that there was something better out there than the Etymotic ER-4P/S. I did not like adjusting to the perceived "thin" soundstage and the anemic bass. I also hated the micro phonic nature of the design itself. The replaceable filters and tips were just hidden charges as well (IMHO). I wanted the best because well, that's just the way I am. I found out about Sensaphonic and Ultimate Ears and deemed them to be the leaders in the IEM market. I chose UE because of its 70% market dominance...that ain't nothing to sneeze at. The long, very long, list of current UE owners was staggering. The frequency response graph of the UE-10 PRO looked like it was the ticket for me as well. So, it kind of all came together. I made my decision public (which is a great motivator for anyone to achieve specific goals or dreams) and I worked hard while cutting 'n trimming unnecessary expenses from my budget. Then, I got them and the rest is history.

I have to agree that its about personal preference. At this level of the IEM price category, you better sure as heck define precisely what you want them for and figure out which ones will suit your ears (literally). It ain't cheap. However, reaching goals was never meant to be easy going.

Was it all worth it? YES. I just hope that whichever company you choose for your IEM you'll be happy with your decision. But, get it straight in your mind exactly what you're looking for in terms of sound characteristics, fit 'n feel, and other features as well. Once you make your decision, you'll have to live with it for the rest of your life. That's the price to be paid for custom IEMs.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Welly,
I have been using my ER4 as an IEM, but it is not intended for that because of the form factor and fit. Just as you have said. It looks ridiculous on stage. The ER4 are better at home or on the plane. However, give me something that has the same fit as the sensa or Ue and sounds like the ER4 and I'll buy it. I think Sensaphonics IV does that.

 

[HRA]

Lindrone,

Glad to see the arguing is over. Its getting late here....1015PM London time...finally adapting to the 6 hour change.

To answer your question I don't typically use IEM's at home. Only use them in the studio, my gym, airplanes and outside walks. My main home system is very basic for someone in the industry. My speakers are Wilson Audio Wamm 7s. My amps and preamps are made by Krell, sub woofers by M&K. There are numerous other components made by Macintosh, Nakamichi, Mark Levinson, etc. These are part of a home theatre system that's also distributed throughout the house.

I've never really used the ER stuff so I can't really comment. The model numbers you mentioned should be good for iPods and entry level IEM's. I do not consider the Shure E2's as an IEM for use other than for portable listening devices. In my opinion the sound quality leaves a lot to be desired but better than most Sony IEM's. Nobody that I know would use any of the Shure line for on stage use, but then again the music world that I live in is not indicative of the "real" world. We use the best even if its not the best....

If you are looking for an IEM that's reasonable for starting a new band, and money is a concern, which I'm sure it is, I would consider looking at more at the Shure E5 than the E2. I don't the E3 offers enough noise abatement unless you get a custom mold.

When IEM's are used are stage they are typically used with a wireless pack attached to the back of the performer. Wireless is far from perfect and adjustments sometimes have to be made by the sound engineer so the performer can hear properly. Bottom line is that all this stuff is so highly personal as is music itself. I don't think any one company has yet to produce the perfect IEM or any equipment for that matter. There is only the best as of today....tomorrow is another story.