[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif The B22 and the GS-X aren't the same amp. And I think you'll find there are a LOT more gs-x's out there than B22s at this point.

I'm not sure. The beta22 is a lot more international and in a lot more forums than just around here. Who knows.

Both are in short supply that's for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fierce_freak ^ yeah, that's a good addition to testing, imo Also, comparing back and forth like crazy can make your brain melt (or maybe that's just my own low-grade brain ;p), so I also suggest listening to just the b22 for a day or two to really get used to it, then switch back to the gsx. I find things are more apparent when I do that.

I'm giving the multi-day listening approach a swing and see what turns up. I think that at this point I'd happily live with either amp for a very long time. I don't see this setup changing anytime soon (other than possibly headphones). It's pretty much now down to figuring out which one to keep.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[tom hankins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fierce_freak /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ yeah, that's a good addition to testing, imo Also, comparing back and forth like crazy can make your brain melt (or maybe that's just my own low-grade brain ;p), so I also suggest listening to just the b22 for a day or two to really get used to it, then switch back to the gsx. I find things are more apparent when I do that.

I think since both amps are fairly new to you this would be a better aproach to start out. Pick one or the other for a week or so and then switch in the other amp. If there are differences i think they will become more noticable to you.

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think since both amps are fairly new to you this would be a better aproach to start out. Pick one or the other for a week or so and then switch in the other amp. If there are differences i think they will become more noticable to you.

I listen A LOT (I work too much). I've put well over 100 hours on the GS-X at this stage so I'd say I'm fairly familiar. That said I'm giving this a swing.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Dreadhead]

Overnight I recieved a PM from Justin and apparently the OPAMPs in the GS-X are only for removing the DC offset and are not in the signal path. Hence it's a fully discrete amp!

That presents one possible reason they both sound so similar.

 

[twsmith]

Has anyone used the GS-X with balanced AKG K701s? If so, what differences (positive or negative) in SQ have you noticed between balanced and SE mode?

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by naamanf /img/forum/go_quote.gif K1000s Or K340s might show a difference between the amps.

well. it would show the better driving capability of one of the amps, but what does that say about performance for other less demanding headphones.

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif well. it would show the better driving capability of one of the amps, but what does that say about performance for other less demanding headphones.

Yes that's my question too... I don't see why how well one amp drives one set of phones that require several watts vs another has anything to do with how well they drive less damanding phones.

For years there have been two schools in the speaker world: the 15w SET guys and the 300w Krell guys. Who needs 300w when your speakers would explode

I'm doing a comparison for "normal" phones that are in the range of efficiency normally seen in phones not the outliers that need speaker levels of power.

But of course if someone wants to lend/rent me some k1000's I'm up for it

Or if you live near Alexandria VA lets meet up to do a comparison.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[amb]

Some headphones need a lot of output voltage swing capability while some need lots of output current to achieve optimal performance. Many more are somewhere in-between. With ~43Vpp of voltage swing (unbalanced; double that for balanced) and several amperes of available current, the β22 has them all covered in spades.

 

[KarateKid]

So which opamps are used in the gs-x? 0.2hz? Is that audible?

 

[Michgelsen]

0.2 Hz is not audible at all. 20 Hz is the lowest tone a human can hear. There might be some people who can hear down to let's say 17 Hz, but never 0.2 Hz. Even elephants can't hear that as far as I know.
I'm sure Justin has selected a good opamp to remove DC offset. There's nothing to worry about.

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amb /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some headphones need a lot of output voltage swing capability while some need lots of output current to achieve optimal performance. Many more are somewhere in-between. With ~43Vpp of voltage swing (unbalanced; double that for balanced) and several amperes of available current, the β22 has them all covered in spades.

Sounds good. I can't argue with that (since I have no reason to), but I'm sure you can't argue that the beta22 has way more power than you need to drive headphones. Does this take away from its ability to drive phones? no. Is it still an amazing accomplishment in headphone design? yes. Is it even more amazing because it is a open design? Yes.

People seem to think that by writing in this and other threads I am somehow trying to be anti-beta22. It could not be further from the case. All I care about is the sound with the headphones I have (and a lot of others have).

My impression was that the HD650 with its relatively high impedance (not as high as some though) is a pretty good test of voltage swing and that most people agree that they are very hard phones to drive well. The modified D5000 should be more of a current hungry set because of their low impedance so I think I have a significant portion of the range covered.

Right now I'm still here trying to do a good and impartial review of the two but I continue to have to defend the GS-X from attacks that have nothing do do with the configuration I am using it in. I am not trying to antagonize people but maybe it's my experience as an engineering professor (not in electrical) that makes me feel the need to chime in with a voice of reason.

Now on to the comparison:
I have listened to the beta22 exclusively for the last 3 days or so and I just switched back to the GS-X for a single song and could not hear any difference. I've switched back to the beta22 and we'll see how a longer session goes sometime on Monday or Tuesday.

 

[fierce_freak]

You don't need to defend the GS-X. I don't think I've seen anyone attack it...it's an incredible amp

 

[fault151]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadhead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now on to the comparison: I have listened to the beta22 exclusively for the last 3 days or so and I just switched back to the GS-X for a single song and could not hear any difference. I've switched back to the beta22 and we'll see how a longer session goes sometime on Monday or Tuesday.

So far you are saying that they both sound nearly the same? Is there no area where they stand out over each other? Which do you prefer then?

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fault151 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So far you are saying that they both sound nearly the same? Is there no area where they stand out over each other? Which do you prefer then?

Right now with my HD650s I can hear no difference (so not nearly but exactly the same) and have no preference. The "warm" feeling I mentioned feeling with the beta22 was in fact a mental thing because after reading for an hour or two I thought I was listening to the GS-X when as it turned out I was listening to the beta22.

Right now it is still a toss up. Aesthetics and flexibility are the only difference I can see right now. Currently I am trying to see if there's some difference that I would notice if my mind got used to one or the other. Initial test point to no (the post you quoted). I really haven't heard anything and I think as long as the two are volume matched if I was looking away I wouldn't be able to tell you which was which.

The big problem seems to me to be that I can't be sure that me thinking that there's no difference means that I will find no difference. I really want to find one so I think (hope) that it's outweighing the preconceived notion. Yes it's to that stage where I start worrying about preconceived notions:

Neuromarketing » Why Expensive Wine Tastes Better

Also I'm thinking of making some sort of cable to hook the balanced outputs to my M-Audio transit so I can get an idea of frequency response but I'm not totally convinced that this will work. If I was more of a tool I'd buy a balanced ADC and return it after I was done. Man I wish I was still a university prof because I could just borrow an oscilloscope from the lab.

Also note that I'm not using my Denon AH-D5000 (modified and balanced) for this comparison at this point even though I find them more detailed and balanced when compared to the HD650s. The reason for this is because the Senns are harder to drive properly and should show the differences better.

I have also recently switched to WinAMP from Foobar2000 because I bought a Linn master recording of the Scottish Chamber Orchestra that's 24/88.2 and foobar refused to play it back at anything other than 16/44.1 and it turns out that hi-rez WMA is not supported in Foobar but it is in WinAMP so off I went. Other than the interface I am using ASIO4all etc just the same so no sonic difference should be present.

 

[amb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadhead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also I'm thinking of making some sort of cable to hook the balanced outputs to my M-Audio transit so I can get an idea of frequency response but I'm not totally convinced that this will work. If I was more of a tool I'd buy a balanced ADC and return it after I was done. Man I wish I was still a university prof because I could just borrow an oscilloscope from the lab.

It will be a futile exercise trying to measure frequency response with any computer sound card, because both amps will exhibit ruler-flat response, and they extend far below and above that of the sound card itself. The only feasible way to measure this would be with a good function generator and scope (e.g., β22's frequency response is 0Hz - 2.5MHz +0, -3dB).