[mcmyers]

I've been wondering about this myself. I thought it was something wrong with my ripping software, but even when I rip losslessly with Exact Audio Copy, I get clipping on some modern releases. One that is particularly bad is Jay-Z's Black Album (not sure how many hip hop fans there are here). It clips on nearly every word that Jay-Z says.

By the way, what is compression on CDs? I know that when you convert a CD to MP3 it gets compressed, but why would a CD already be compressed?

 

[sejarzo]

This web page has a couple of pictures that depict compression when it comes to the audio signal/waveform itself:

http://www.auldworks.com/articles/webdyn1.htm

It's not "data compression" in the sense that the total amount of data is compressed (like in an mp3 file) but, in the case of the problem this thread describes, that the low level music signals are increased relative to where they should be, and the high level music signals are decreased..........but then the whole data stream is sort of multiplied, so that many of the high level samples are at full scale.

The softer parts sound louder, and what should be a lot louder isn't--because it can't be.

 

[mcmyers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif This web page has a couple of pictures that depict compression when it comes to the audio signal/waveform itself: http://www.auldworks.com/articles/webdyn1.htm It's not "data compression" in the sense that the total amount of data is compressed (like in an mp3 file) but, in the case of the problem this thread describes, that the low level music signals are increased relative to where they should be, and the high level music signals are decreased..........but then the whole data stream is sort of multiplied, so that many of the high level samples are at full scale. The softer parts sound louder, and what should be a lot louder isn't--because it can't be.

Oh, I thought that was called "normalization" rather than "compression." But I get what you mean.

 

[Scrith]

Mcmyers, or anyone who has heard distortion during particular loud moments in a particular song, would you mind trying to scan the file using ReplayGain in Foobar and then play it back with ReplayGain enabled (and the "adjust gain to prevent clipping" option set...sorry, than may not be the exact wording but the option should be pretty obvious) and see if it helps?

By the way, there seem to be some misconceptions about ReplayGain floating around here. When you use ReplayGain to scan a file (or to create ReplayGain data when creating a new FLAC file) it does NOT change the audio data of the music file, it merely reads the data of an entire track (or album) and calculates appropriate volume settings for each track, storing these values in the tag section of the file (separate from the playback section). A file with ReplayGain data can always be played back without the ReplayGain feature enabled (and therefore will sound exactly as it would even if the file had never been scanned by ReplayGain).

 

[kipman725]

Metalica have one of the worst cases of clipping I think in Enter the sandman, every single drum beat clips after a certain point in the track, gives me a headache.

Quite alot of older classical CDs are superbly mastered, the volume is alot lower than any current cd I have listened to and they have a far greater dynamic range.

I think that many of the perceived superiorities of vinal are simply because alot of cds are mastered so badley. A properly mastered cd is incomparable with a modern pop cd.

 

[colonelkernel8]

I just want to walk into the audio engineer/mixers office and beat him.

 

[mrarroyo]

The following is a great article on this subject: http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicdeath.htm

 

[Kabeer]

Is there any resource online which catalouges/lists CD's which have been mastered very well, to faithfully keep the dynamics?

This would be interesting to see.

 

[mcmyers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrith /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mcmyers, or anyone who has heard distortion during particular loud moments in a particular song, would you mind trying to scan the file using ReplayGain in Foobar and then play it back with ReplayGain enabled (and the "adjust gain to prevent clipping" option set...sorry, than may not be the exact wording but the option should be pretty obvious) and see if it helps? By the way, there seem to be some misconceptions about ReplayGain floating around here. When you use ReplayGain to scan a file (or to create ReplayGain data when creating a new FLAC file) it does NOT change the audio data of the music file, it merely reads the data of an entire track (or album) and calculates appropriate volume settings for each track, storing these values in the tag section of the file (separate from the playback section). A file with ReplayGain data can always be played back without the ReplayGain feature enabled (and therefore will sound exactly as it would even if the file had never been scanned by ReplayGain).

I can't compare using ReplayGain, because I don't use Foobar, but I have used a similar (perhaps identical) program called MP3Gain, which is supposed to do the same thing, reducing the volume of all tracks so that they are at the same volume, but without normalizing.

What I noticed with MP3Gain was that it made it possible to use my iPod's eq settings, like bass boost, without any added distortion (there was distortion when using bass boost before processing the tracks). But if a track already had clips before I tried bass boost, (like the Jay-Z album) MP3Gain did not fix those clips.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmyers /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, I thought that was called "normalization" rather than "compression." But I get what you mean.

Normalization would multiply all samples in a file by the same number so that the highest level sample in the file becomes a full-scale sample. The dynamic range is maintained (if all samples are multiplied by the same number, the ratio of highest/lowest remains constant.)

Compression results in the ratio of the highest/lowest level signals decreasing.

 

[ccontreras]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

 

[mcmyers]

This whole thread is so depressing. I can't believe there aren't more audiophiles among musicians demanding that their work get better treatment.

Are there any online references for finding CDs on the market today that preserve dynamic range? ARE there any CDs on the market today that preserve dynamic range?

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmyers /img/forum/go_quote.gif This whole thread is so depressing. I can't believe there aren't more audiophiles among musicians demanding that their work get better treatment. Are there any online references for finding CDs on the market today that preserve dynamic range? ARE there any CDs on the market today that preserve dynamic range?

even if you put all the audiophiles together to sign a petition worldwide, it still wouldn't be a big enough sheet of paper to wipe a record company's bottom...line. fact is, they jam it up there to make it more "radio friendly" so it can blast even louder than the kiddies can usually crank it in their rides.

so yeah, check out any titles that aren't popular or at least not radio-friendly and you'll have a better chance - say, in the jazz/classical/reissued worlds. unless the reissue is a "remastered" popular album, then you take your chances again. off the top of my head i can't think of a place online that gives you a comprehensive list of the latest releases that are/are not hot mastered, my apologies.

 

[mcmyers]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn /img/forum/go_quote.gif even if you put all the audiophiles together to sign a petition worldwide, it still wouldn't be a big enough sheet of paper to wipe a record company's bottom...line.

Well, I'd just think that if I were a musician, I'd want my music to sound as awesome as possible, not as loud as possible. But maybe most rock/pop musicians are too deaf to hear the clipping on their own CDs.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmyers /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I'd just think that if I were a musician, I'd want my music to sound as awesome as possible, not as loud as possible. But maybe most rock/pop musicians are too deaf to hear the clipping on their own CDs.

some actually do hear the crying in the wilderness. for quite a while, the Red Hot Chili Peppers were the poster boys for Best Music/Worst Compression ratio. However, things are looking up, perhaps because they finally took notice-

Similar to Californication, Stadium Arcadium features a heavy use of audio compression during mastering. However, the vinyl versions of Stadium Arcadium have been mastered by Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray at AcousTech from the 30 ips analog master tapes,[5] "the mixes are all powerful, very dynamic, tuneful, exciting and quite high fidelity sounding."