[kentamcolin]

Need opinions on the best canal phones for classical music with ipod as source and NO amp.

 

[CSMR]

Only used etymotic so can't give any comparison.

I would say that canal phones benefit very much from an amp (a low-gain, low noise amp) because they tend to be very sensitive. The analog volume control on an amp is a big help. Straight from the player you will have to use a lot of digital volume control (reducing quality) and still get the noise floor. And if the headphones are low impedance, you may get an altered frequency response straight from the player too.

 

[kentamcolin]

I know an amp would help bring out the best the phone can do. This is going to be a gift for my son who listens to almost always to classical music. He uses his iPod and the stock ear buds and is pretty happy with that, but he hasn't heard anything better either. I'd like to get him something that really improves the sound of the cheap stock cans, but spending something like $500 for an SR-71 and canals is not going to get approval from the other half. I don't think he would care to carry around a small amp anyway. He appreciates nice sound but is not as picky (yet) as I am. To be honest, I've never even listened to an iPod myself.

Thanks for the reply, and keep 'em coming.

 

[rlanger]

Do you have a budget in mind?

I have only listened to them briefly myself, but from much of what I've read it sounds like Ety's might be your best bet.

For the low budget, go with the ER6i, and if you want to splurge, the ER4.

 

[episiarch]

I like Etys for this: just beautiful for classical music. I own most of their models, and here's how I see them stacking up:

ER-6i: a very good default choice. Very sensitive so you won't need an amp. Uses a very common sleeve size (same as the ER-4 and most Shures), so there are lots of sleeve/fit choices available, both from Etymotic and from other makers (e.g., Comply tips). Has a little bit of boost in the bass, but not enough to really mess up classical music. (It's only a little bit wrong, not drastically wrong.)

ER-6: this is what I used unamped. Its sound is simply clearer and more accurate than the ER-6i's, and according to Etymotic it measures more neutral (sounds more neutral to me too). However it is less sensitive than the ER-6i, and with some classical music you might find that the pianissimo sections can't be turned up loud enough without an amp for fully enjoyable listening. (It all depends, of course, on the music and the listener, so I can't really give you a real thumbs-up or thumbs-down.) It also has an unusual sleeve size and therefore a much smaller selection of sleeve/fit choices (its biflange sleeve, however, fits me ideally so I'm delighted with it).

ER-4P: a really terrific transducer, and pretty sensitive, but its frequency response is tipped toward the bass and away from the treble instead of being relatively flat. This bothers me a lot, giving me an almost physically itchy lemme-at-the-tone-controls feeling within a few minutes of putting them on, but I am in the minority and virtually everyone else seems to like the sound just fine. For me, the best thing about the ER-4P is that you can turn it into an ER-4S with just an add-on cable.

ER-4S: utterly fantastic, but not very sensitive. You can play it unamped from an iPod, but the volume control will be pretty near the top of the range, so those pianissimo sections will be pretty soft.

On the whole I think the ER-6i is a very good choice. And it's a very reasonably priced starter IEM. If he wants to move up from there, he may want to do his own research and figure out what suits him best.

On the subject of amps, although I understand that price is not the only issue, since you specifically mentioned the SR-71 and its price I want to assure you that there are very fine amps available considerably below the SR-71's price point. In fact I used to own an SR-71 but have since replaced it with a $100 amp that I genuinely prefer with my ER-4S's. Although the SR-71 is rightly considered an excellent-sounding premium product, IMO its price is not really correlated with pure sonic performance with these IEMs and with certain sonic tastes.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentamcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know an amp would help bring out the best the phone can do. This is going to be a gift for my son who listens to almost always to classical music. He uses his iPod and the stock ear buds and is pretty happy with that, but he hasn't heard anything better either. I'd like to get him something that really improves the sound of the cheap stock cans, but spending something like $500 for an SR-71 and canals is not going to get approval from the other half. I don't think he would care to carry around a small amp anyway. He appreciates nice sound but is not as picky (yet) as I am. To be honest, I've never even listened to an iPod myself. Thanks for the reply, and keep 'em coming.

I see. I wouldn't recommend canalphones except for sound isolation purposes. If your son's using stock earbuds why not go just a few steps up to a porta-pro? Cheap and pretty good. Or another step up to one of the AKG range, some of them very good for classical. The porta-pro sounds better IMO than the ER6; and it's more comfortable than canalphones, and less fiddly. (Well maybe Ultimate ears would be an exception but I've not tried them.) If he's happy listening to stock phones he'll be very happy listening on portapros.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by episiarch /img/forum/go_quote.gif ER-4S: utterly fantastic, but not very sensitive. You can play it unamped from an iPod, but the volume control will be pretty near the top of the range, so those pianissimo sections will be pretty soft.

Not quite the same experience here. I have tried the ER-4S directly from the headphone out of my h140 and it needs to be turned quite a way down, and has a noise floor. Does sound pretty decent with an amp if I get the ear-fitting right though though not a patch on the K501s

.

 

[scrypt]

I've used the Etymotic ER-4 series for string transcription and found them to be a Christ-send -- first, for separating the parts so well and representing the frequency range without overemphases and, second, for providing sufficient isolation to allow me to finish my transcriptions in a noisy room. I began with an ER-4P but had it converted to an ER-4S when the cord needed to be replaced after several years' abuse. The 4P was exemplary, but overkill for the iPod (the gain structure of which seems to have been designed for tinnitus enthusiasts). The ER-4S gives you a few more highs (which is useful in classical music) and seems not to sacrifice a thing to volume. Though I favor an amp, when plugged straight into an iPod, my ER-4S has never needed to be clocked past two (to translate the ip odd's volume bar into traditional notched terms). Don't worry about faintness with an iPod; save your anxiety for your ears.

By the way; I find porta-pros to be depressingly undetailed for classical music. They are commendably non-fatiguing, and I rather like using them for less demanding fare, but the ER6 and ER4 are in another class entirely. The very characteristics which non-musicians complain of (dry, analytical, etc.) are what make the Etymotic series ideal for professional use and detail-oriented listening generally.

I can appreciate CMSR's recommendation of the AKG series (the 501 and 701 especially), but I can't picture using them with an iPod in public situations (hence the emphasis on IEMs). There is also the question of needing an amp.

I also like the E4c for classical music but find them to be insufficiently isolating in public situations, which could mean risking tinnitus.

And BTW: The ER6i do not have a "noise floor"; that issue belongs to the unamped H1XX series. I own two H140s; their noisy headphone out has been chronicled endlessly on these boards and elsewhere. The H140 is brilliant in many ways, but its headphone out is not its strong point.

 

[brospin]

I listen to classical only with my portable equipment and I always use the ER-4S, though I own a pair of UE-10 (they sound too midrangy to me and the isolation is poor). I would strongly recommend the ER-4S with an amp. You can find many small-sized amps that won't add much weight/volume to your portable equipment. For classical I personally like the Porta Corda very much.

 

[tnmike1]

Vibes from V-Moda--pick your color and they're a sponsor here--or Altec Lansing's IM-716 (maybehave the wrong number, but doubt it). Both around $100; I like the Vibes especially either amped or unamped. Still really prefer my Ety4p with Ipod, but these two are really close seconds and less money.

 

[no1likesme]

ety er4p unamped
ety er4s amped

 

[drizek]

I have the Altec Lansing im716. The price shot up quite a bit to $108 on amazon, it was at $60 at one point, i bought mine for $70. Regardless, they sound very good for classical music even without an amplifier. I havent compared them to any other IEMs, but for the price the only competition is the ER6i, and from all the reviews ive read the AL should be a better choice.

 

[scrypt]

I've had the luxury of trying on a pair of V-Moda Vibes for the past week and can't recommend them for classical music or use in a noisy environment. Their perfect habitat is the office, where isolating earphones are a liability and co-workers are apt to tap you on the forehead regularly. Vibes fairly sing when pumping music with droning guitars and distorted synths (vintage suburban shoegazer, for example), or electronic music that makes extensive use of analog distortion (Casino vs. Japan, Christian Kleine, Tim Hecker's Harmonies in Ultraviolet), but they seem a bit boxy and indistinct when fed Bartok's Third Piano Concerto or John Adams's Harmonielehre: Their dynamic range and FR seem tailored to highlight music that is effects-laden and maintains a relatively constant level.

The im716 sounds like a good suggestion, but I can't confirm that because I haven't actually heard it. To those who have: It might be helpful to explain why you think it better or worse than another IEM (such as the ER-6i), since your criteria might differ from the OP's.

Let me say this again:

Like the ER-6i, the ER-4P is tweaked to be used with relatively low signal, the ER-4S, less so. However, both P and S benefit from the use of an amp, and neither, in my experience, is too faint to be used with an iPod ampless. In fact, the ER-4P has no headroom whatsoever with my iPod Photo -- I can hear distant signal even when the volume bar is completely white, and turning it up an increment often results in an uncomfortable level. The ER-4S has proved far more useful for me, since I'm able to lower the volume to a median between pain and nigh-imperceptible humming.

 

[Assorted]

I have to say the E500. With these phones, you can actually image each instrument (especially in baroque/chamber music). The violins, continuo, even the viola have their own... "island". The orchestra is warm sounding, bass is present and not overwhelming.

With the vibes everything sounds a little mushed up, but it wouldn't be a fair comparison, coming out of the E500s.

 

[episiarch]

The iM716 is a problematic fit for some people - me for one, and I think I saw at least one other poster commenting on it too. The part of the transducer shell that sits outside the ear has a rather larger circumference, big enough to get in the way of my inserting the stem all the way into my ear. I can't get a seal with flanges at all, only with the big cylindrical foamies.

(The Ety-Com headset is the same way, and it looks to me like the Ety8 is as well, though I haven't seen that in person, only in pictures.)

As for the sound, it certainly had the trademark Ety clarity, but to me it seemed to have some odd resonances and at any rate I didn't find it compelling enough to put up with the fit problems when I had other earphones at my disposal. Since I hated wearing the thing, I didn't actually test it against my various Etys to see where it deserved to fit in the the lineup. But I'm very skeptical of the claim I heard a few times that it's as good as an ER-4. It didn't seem that way to me.

It does offer a bass-boosted mode for people who like that sort of thing, but I thought it had a deplorable subwoofer-in-the-trunk-and-crank-it-all-the-way quality, so I hope nobody actually uses it. Still, it takes all kinds so I imagine there must be people who love it.