[psikey]

 
Try the HA-2SE with your 846's on low gain. It is brilliant with IEM's. my Westones really do shine on the OPPO compared to my mojo, its just very very smooth and refined. I don't personally have the 846's but I've seen many people over at the HA2-se section who say that its the best sound they've heard from their 846's even compared to certain AK DAC's

 
The original HA2 has so much background hiss with the SE846's I could'nt listen to it. I even contacted Oppo and they said it could be an issue for the 9 Ohm SE846's as one of lowest impedance IEMS's. Have they fixed the noise level with the SE ? 
 
I'm happy now with my SE846/Mojo combination. If I spend more money now it will be to add the Chord Poly to my Mojo or buy a fully featured streaming DAP like the Pioneer 300R or the upcoming Fiio X5 3rd gen.

 

[faw88]

   
The original HA2 has so much background hiss with the SE846's I could'nt listen to it. I even contacted Oppo and they said it could be an issue for the 9 Ohm SE846's as one of lowest impedance IEMS's. Have they fixed the noise level with the SE ? 
 
I'm happy now with my SE846/Mojo combination. If I spend more money now it will be to add the Chord Poly to my Mojo or buy a fully featured streaming DAP like the Pioneer 300R or the upcoming Fiio X5 3rd gen.

Well I can only speak for the SE, and theres no hiss here. But the 846 are very low impedance so I can understand theres always a chance. my westones are 30ohm and I've never had hiss on the mojo or the ha2. the issue with mojo is that its a bit harsh to my ears, and it can be fatiguing. compared to the oppo which is just so smooth, I can listen to the oppo all day. And its not just me, I thought I had gone crazy by preferring the ha2-se over the mojo, so I had a group of friends (who knew nothing about different dacs and amp) A-B the mojo vs ha2-se. ALL of them separately preferred the sound of the ha2se some even immediately like a reflex. The headphones I used for this test were HE400i, not the IEM's though. I know this is not a scientific test or anything, but to my ears the oppo just sounds 'better'.
 
I'm Also looking forward to the upcoming X5 3rd gen, I think sonically it'll be way better than the pioneer, which is essentially the onkyo dp-x1. and the onkyo lacks the oomph required to power the 400i's. When looking for a DAP i think its better to prefer the sonic acumen rather than other specs like processor and RAM, You can get that stuff out of a phone. That being said, I fear the X5 might be a bit slow and laggy due to its Dated RockChip processor and only 1gb of ram. But I'm also looking to get one as soon as its available. Poly, I'm sure I'll acquire somewhere down the line, Not at this point in time though, maybe in the summer. Let the price simmer down a little. 

 

[psikey]

 
Well I can only speak for the SE, and theres no hiss here. But the 846 are very low impedance so I can understand theres always a chance. my westones are 30ohm and I've never had hiss on the mojo or the ha2. the issue with mojo is that its a bit harsh to my ears, and it can be fatiguing. compared to the oppo which is just so smooth, I can listen to the oppo all day. And its not just me, I thought I had gone crazy by preferring the ha2-se over the mojo, so I had a group of friends (who knew nothing about different dacs and amp) A-B the mojo vs ha2-se. ALL of them separately preferred the sound of the ha2se some even immediately like a reflex. The headphones I used for this test were HE400i, not the IEM's though. I know this is not a scientific test or anything, but to my ears the oppo just sounds 'better'.
 
I'm Also looking forward to the upcoming X5 3rd gen, I think sonically it'll be way better than the pioneer, which is essentially the onkyo dp-x1. and the onkyo lacks the oomph required to power the 400i's. When looking for a DAP i think its better to prefer the sonic acumen rather than other specs like processor and RAM, You can get that stuff out of a phone. That being said, I fear the X5 might be a bit slow and laggy due to its Dated RockChip processor and only 1gb of ram. But I'm also looking to get one as soon as its available. 

 
One of the things many agree on with the Mojo is that its not fatiguing and you can listen all day. That's certainly the case with my SE846's but then they don't have overly bright treble. Synergy with different ear/headphones will obviously be a factor.

 

[Badfish5446]

 
 


NO! ONLY the HA-2SE can operate as a pure line out device. NOT the mojo. Its Misleading reviews like these that made me purchase the mojo in the first place. It cannot function as a line out DAC. Simply not possible to bypass the amplifier section. the 2 button combo for pre-amp is just a volume preset, at which it gives 2v output, nothing else. Its very misleading. 


I required a Portable DAC to use with my car audio system which has its own high end amplifiers. Mojo amplification made the sound horrible. the HA-2 on the other hand has pure line out which bypasses its amplifier completely so you can just utilize that brilliant sabre chip, and it sounds amazing with external amplification. 


Dont get me wrong, I love the mojo, Its brilliant with my headphones. But I love my HA-2SE more as its much more versatile, and sounds almost equally good. 

Line Out is an output specification (Vrms, V peak to peak) so that you don't output a signal level that causes the downstream amplifier to clip.  Topology has almost nothing to do with it.  The only time I would be concerned about whether or not a device utilizes an all in one jack or a separate jacks for variable out vs. line out is if the volume control methodology was suspect (digital volume that reduces bit depth).  As far as I am aware the Mojo is not known for a poorly implemented volume control so I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about.

 

[faw88]

 
 

   
  NO! ONLY the HA-2SE can operate as a pure line out device. NOT the mojo. Its Misleading reviews like these that made me purchase the mojo in the first place. It cannot function as a line out DAC. Simply not possible to bypass the amplifier section. the 2 button combo for pre-amp is just a volume preset, at which it gives 2v output, nothing else. Its very misleading. 
  I required a Portable DAC to use with my car audio system which has its own high end amplifiers. Mojo amplification made the sound horrible. the HA-2 on the other hand has pure line out which bypasses its amplifier completely so you can just utilize that brilliant sabre chip, and it sounds amazing with external amplification. 
  Dont get me wrong, I love the mojo, Its brilliant with my headphones. But I love my HA-2SE more as its much more versatile, and sounds almost equally good. 

  Line Out is an output specification (Vrms, V peak to peak) so that you don't output a signal level that causes the downstream amplifier to clip.  Topology has almost nothing to do with it.  The only time I would be concerned about whether or not a device utilizes an all in one jack or a separate jacks for variable out vs. line out is if the volume control methodology was suspect (digital volume that reduces bit depth).  As far as I am aware the Mojo is not known for a poorly implemented volume control so I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about.

 
Pure LINE OUT : only utilize the DAC and give output signal bypassing the amplifier. the signal can then be amplified using any external amp. What mojo does is that it just adjusts the volume to a 2V setting. It causes severe clipping and distortion on my external Car amplifiers. 

 

[faw88]

   
One of the things many agree on with the Mojo is that its not fatiguing and you can listen all day. That's certainly the case with my SE846's but then they don't have overly bright treble. Synergy with different ear/headphones will obviously be a factor.

I guess I've had a different experience then. I don't usually go on what other people say, this is just my personal opinion. I have them both, and I like them both. but the mojo treble is too bright for my taste. especially when using westones it becomes unbearable. but then again your shure are a more balanced pair and they don't have particular emphasis on treble. thats why the mojo must be making them sound very good. 

 

[Mython]

   
Pure LINE OUT : only utilize the DAC and give output signal bypassing the amplifier. the signal can then be amplified using any external amp. What mojo does is that it just adjusts the volume to a 2V setting. It causes severe clipping and distortion on my external Car amplifiers. 

 
 
No, Mojos Line-out preset is 3V, not 2V. That may very well explain your experience of clipping on your car amplifiers. Mojo can very easily be set to 1.9v output.
 
 
Please see the section entitled "Setting Mojo to Line-Level", in post #3 of the main Mojo thread.
 
 
 
 
Incidentally, please also see my earlier response about Mojos output stage.

 

[faw88]

   
 
No, Mojos Line-out preset is 3V, not 2V. That may very well explain your experience of clipping on your car amplifiers. Mojo can very easily be set to 1.9v output.
 
 
Please see the section entitled "Setting Mojo to Line-Level", in post #3 of the main Mojo thread.
 
 
 
 
Incidentally, please also see my earlier response about Mojos output stage.

Right, 3v or 2v in both cases its amplified. What you're trying to tell me is theoretical. what I've EXPERIENCED, is that you cannot bypass the amplifier. its as simple as that, I have also tried to lower the volume on the mojo, following the instructions in your post. Mojo with an external amp is useless. You must understand that I have a high end audio setup in my car with a focal amplifiers and focal components along with a pioneer 8750 head-unit and a DSP with crossover. I thought I could use mojo to decode DSD through its brilliant DAC, but it DOES NOT work. it causes clipping and at lower mojo volumes the sound is just horrible. On the other hand, I have used the oppo with its pure line out through its sabre dac and its just a different world. even my FIIO E18 sounds 10 times better when used as a LINE-OUT into my car. I'll see If I can shoot a video showing exactly what I'm experiencing, if I get the time. 
now please don't get triggered. I have not implied that the fiio is better than mojo, it is not. but when it comes to using the mojo as a standalone DAC, Its not possible and frankly the information implying that it is, is very misleading. 

 

[Mython]

 

   
 
No, Mojos Line-out preset is 3V, not 2V. That may very well explain your experience of clipping on your car amplifiers. Mojo can very easily be set to 1.9v output.
 
 
Please see the section entitled "Setting Mojo to Line-Level", in post #3 of the main Mojo thread.
 
 
 
 
Incidentally, please also see my earlier response about Mojos output stage.

Right, 3v or 2v in both cases its amplified. What you're trying to tell me is theoretical. what I've EXPERIENCED, is that you cannot bypass the amplifier. its as simple as that, I have also tried to lower the volume on the mojo, following the instructions in your post. Mojo with an external amp is useless. You must understand that I have a high end audio setup in my car with a focal amplifiers and focal components along with a pioneer 8750 head-unit and a DSP with crossover. I thought I could use mojo to decode DSD through its brilliant DAC, but it DOES NOT work. it causes clipping and at lower mojo volumes the sound is just horrible. On the other hand, I have used the oppo with its pure line out through its sabre dac and its just a different world. even my FIIO E18 sounds 10 times better when used as a LINE-OUT into my car. I'll see If I can shoot a video showing exactly what I'm experiencing, if I get the time. 
now please don't get triggered. I have not implied that the fiio is better than mojo, it is not. but when it comes to using the mojo as a standalone DAC, Its not possible and frankly the information implying that it is, is very misleading. 

 
 
Relax; there's no 'triggering' going on.
 
We're just talking.
 
 
I've lost count of the number of people who've reported happily using Mojo to feed active loudspeakers or fullsize amps, with none of the issues you describe.
 
I myself have used Mojo to feed a signal to my fullsize amp; again, with no issues.
 
 
So the disparity between their experience and mine, vs yours, is peculiar.

 

[MarkF786]

  ... I nonetheless thought it would be worthwhile to compare the two to see if the Mojo really is worth double the price...
 
... Just keep in mind that you are paying twice the price to get probably the most high-end DAC in a pocketable DAC/amp unit. 

 
Savvy shoppers can often find the Mojo at a discount for $400 to $450.  At that price, it's well worth the increase in sound quality, and a better value.
 
I've yet to see the HA-2SE available for a discount below the $300 MSRP.  That, along with the lesser sound quality, makes it much less of a value - especially considering some consider the AudioQuest DragonFly Red to offer superior sound for $100 less.
 
To share some comments from WhatHiFi's summary of the two:
 
"Even at £399, we have to conclude that the Mojo is a bargain."
 
"The HA-2 SE’s only niggling problem is the Audioquest DragonFly Red USB DAC. Not only is it £100 cheaper but it also delivers a slightly subtler, more rhythmically surefooted sound."

 

[x RELIC x]

Right, 3v or 2v in both cases its amplified. What you're trying to tell me is theoretical. what I've EXPERIENCED, is that you cannot bypass the amplifier. its as simple as that, I have also tried to lower the volume on the mojo, following the instructions in your post. Mojo with an external amp is useless. You must understand that I have a high end audio setup in my car with a focal amplifiers and focal components along with a pioneer 8750 head-unit and a DSP with crossover. I thought I could use mojo to decode DSD through its brilliant DAC, but it DOES NOT work. it causes clipping and at lower mojo volumes the sound is just horrible. On the other hand, I have used the oppo with its pure line out through its sabre dac and its just a different world. even my FIIO E18 sounds 10 times better when used as a LINE-OUT into my car. I'll see If I can shoot a video showing exactly what I'm experiencing, if I get the time. 
now please don't get triggered. I have not implied that the fiio is better than mojo, it is not. but when it comes to using the mojo as a standalone DAC, Its not possible and frankly the information implying that it is, is very misleading. 

Simply to get the facts straight here, the Mojo does not have a seperate amp section like conventional DAC/amp devices. It drives headphones from the analogue output from the DAC, just like other conventional devices' line-out. The difference is this is done 100% of the time with the Mojo and is clean enough to drive headphones without the need for a seperate analogue filter or gain stage. All the Chord DACs' analogue stage have is the critical I/V conversion, which is the same as other conventional DACs line-out. You can read about it directly from the Mojo designer who has posted extensively here on Head Fi about his designs, just to keep the facts straight and prevent misleading comments saying the topology is theoretical. In fact the designer has posted pictures of the internal circuit board and this shows to those that can recognize how the topology works there is no seperate amp stage.

As for the Line-out from the HA-2SE it's a mere 1V output which would explain why your car audio isn't clipping compared to the Mojo set to 2V or 3V (this is the only explanation possible, really, as too why you're hearing clipping with the Mojo). My 370z 'premium' audio system clips with the X5's 1.7V line-out. Some car audio inputs don't adhere to home audio tolerances and many car stereos can't accept a high voltage level input.

 

[faw88]

Simply to get the facts straight here, the Mojo does not have a seperate amp section like conventional DAC/amp devices. It drives headphones from the analogue output from the DAC, just like other conventional devices' line-out. The difference is this is done 100% of the time with the Mojo and is clean enough to drive headphones without the need for a seperate analogue filter or gain stage. All the Chord DACs' analogue stage have is the critical I/V conversion, which is the same as other conventional DACs line-out. You can read about it directly from the Mojo designer who has posted extensively here on Head Fi about his designs, just to keep the facts straight and prevent misleading comments saying the topology is theoretical. In fact the designer has posted pictures of the internal circuit board and this shows to those that can recognize how the topology works there is no seperate amp stage.

As for the Line-out from the HA-2SE it's a mere 1V output which would explain why your car audio isn't clipping compared to the Mojo set to 2V or 3V (this is the only explanation possible, really, as too why you're hearing clipping with the Mojo). My 370z 'premium' audio system clips with the X5's 1.7V line-out. Some car audio inputs don't adhere to home audio tolerances and many car stereos can't accept a high voltage level input.

Alright, But Strictly from a practical perspective, I have 2 portable dac/amps which claim to have a 'line-out' (fiio e18 and oppo), both of them work perfectly on the system that I have. Mojo doesn't. Thats all I'm trying to say. I think the limitation with the mojo is the fact that it doesn't have a separate amp stage (for this specific purpose only) But it is getting the power to drive even large headphones from somewhere, be it analogue gain. The purpose of having a separate line out from the DAC is to get as clean a signal as possible without any added "power" or "amplification". For example the new schiit fulla2 has an option to bypass the amp completely and give a very clean signal.
 
In car audio, the more physical filters you add to the sound, the worse the sound gets, for example, If I want my mids to only produce mid frequencies I can add a filter to that speaker either on the headunit or the amplifier or the DSP. But if I add 2 filters of the same frequencies at say, the amplifier and the headunit the sound worsens and there is a considerable increase in noise. 
 
Now having said that, my theory is that In order to produce a clean input to the amp I need to bypass any prior 'amplifications and/or gains'. maybe thats the reason the oppo and fiio work better. Although I will try to set My mojo to volume levels which correspond to 1V output and see how it turns out. I'd be really happy if I can get the mojo to work over there. 

 

[Ghost Pack]

You seem to be under the impression that a DAC stage doesn't already have an amplifier in it. In order to get a line level signal you need to buffer (read "amplify") the extremely low level signal coming from the actual DAC chip. In a traditional DAC -> Amplifier setup, you actually have 3 amplification stages, a voltage or a current amplifier from the DAC chip (depending on implementation), a voltage "pre-amp" stage in the amplifier, and a current "power" stage in the amplifier.
 
I'm not an expert on the Mojo, but from what was said here it looks like the Mojo uses a current amplifier directly following its FPGA DAC chip, which it uses to drive headphones. If you set the output of this stage to 1V RMS it will function as a line out, as it has exactly the same components as a traditional stand alone DAC. The only difference you should notice if you set the output correctly is a slightly higher noise floor, as you're running the buffer at a very low output level compared to what it normally outputs. The distortion you're getting is almost certainly due to clipping. In the case of a car stereo, it probably has some sort of smart level detection system that lets it compress (soft clip) the input signal so you don't accidentally destroy your car speakers.

 

[x RELIC x]

Alright, But Strictly from a practical perspective, I have 2 portable dac/amps which claim to have a 'line-out' (fiio e18 and oppo), both of them work perfectly on the system that I have. Mojo doesn't. Thats all I'm trying to say.

.....

For sure, absolutely, convenience and usability are certainly great reasons for preferring gear, especially with these two components.

...

The purpose of having a separate line out from the DAC is to get as clean a signal as possible without any added "power" or "amplification". 

...

This is exactly why the Mojo does not have an extra analogue gain stage after the discrete DAC. The designer does this specifically for transparency and also feels the more components in the audio path the worse it is for fidelity. Again, that's why the Chord DACs do not have seperate buffer stage, filter stage, and gain stage to bypass and always output from the DAC's line-out stage. The DAC output is just very powerful. Call it clipping or distortion the likely reason is that the signal level from the Mojo you've tried is simply too hot for the car audio equipment.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy which ever works for you, and thanks to the OP for the comparison between these two.

 

[bflat]

  And the reason Chord Mojo does not have the Apple chip is because Apple demand full details of the device being used and seeing as Chord are using a very specialised custom built system not using off the shelf DAC chips they don't want Apple reverse engineering it a few years down the road claiming its their invention.

 
Is this your opinion or did somebody at Chord tell this to you? It's pretty much impossible to extract the code out of the FPGA chip that Chord uses. Even if Apple wanted to try, all they would need is to buy a few dozen Mojos at retail. Same can be said about any chinese manufacturer. I would be surprised if someone from Chord actually accused Apple of stealing intellectual property.
 
I suspect Chord is not willing to pay the royalties to Apple for MFi certification.