[AussieMick]

“This change is worth the outlay for me.”

Yep, an excellent way to phrase it. For whatever reason. Real or imagined. Let people have a nice time. I only have a problem when either side gets militant and behaves like a messiah trying to save the other side from their foolishness. Hate it. But it seems the way online with so many people typing things they’d never say in polite face to face conversation.

I also have a problem with the binary concepts that float around. “Objectivist vs subjectivist” and “believer vs sceptic”. The reality, as always, lies somewhere in between.

 

[turbo87]

Audionirvana or Mac's MIDI.
If Mojo reports it is receiving 192kHz, then it must have happened beforehand.
In this case it is a padded output, meaning, that samples are just repeated to make them appear as 192kHz.
This is not a good idea!
You have paid extra money for your Mojo, for Mojo to do the upsampling, which is automatic.
Mojo upsamples everything to 768kHz very cleverly, by looking at past samples and future samples (using a buffer) and averaging them to calculate the correct inner samples.
That's what is meant by TAPS.
If you feed it artificial 192kHz material, then you are fooling your Mojo, into believing that those samples are real, but they are not!
If you can, don't upsample, let Mojo do what it was designed to do (for which you paid good money for).

Use the LossLess Switcher app, that automatically switches the bitrate on the Mac. Doesn't work all the time, but works most of the time.

https://github.com/vincentneo/LosslessSwitcher

 

[ChrisGB]

It's a pretty deep subject to get into. Measurable differences can be inaudible, unmeasurable differences can be audible. Part of it depends on what you are measuring, of course. With cables, we know that in theory they should all sound the same, but we also know that they can sound quite different.

We then get into the design, material choice and construction quality. These  can define the price point, and this is where there is scope for significant improvements, if the original cable was not good. If the original cable was good, the scope for improvement in reduced.

Then we need to define improvement. This is where the terminology used by audiophiles comes in. Beyond a certain level of expected performance, we are looking at differences that are subtle to some, blatant to others. But they are often differences, not necessarily improvements, and this is where our subjective preferences take over.

For my part, I can easily blind listen to a Mojo 2, a Hugo 2 and a Shanling M6 and, with my well known musical test pieces, identify which I am listening to. The Mojo 2 has a difference in character that I can objectively describe, but the other two are actually closer in sound and the way the sound feels is more the defining difference than specifics of how they sound. Cables though, if not defective, are already close to their diminishing returns plateau and although I've never listened to £700+ headphone cables, I do wonder if I'd be able to tell the difference between one and the stock item supplied with the Quad ERA-1.

Personally, I'm more interested in the music than obsessing about the gear, but, the gear is important to get the music through!

 

[BS5711]

“This change is worth the outlay for me.”

Yep, an excellent way to phrase it. For whatever reason. Real or imagined. Let people have a nice time. I only have a problem when either side gets militant and behaves like a messiah trying to save the other side from their foolishness. Hate it. But it seems the way online with so many people typing things they’d never say in polite face to face conversation.

I also have a problem with the binary concepts that float around. “Objectivist vs subjectivist” and “believer vs sceptic”. The reality, as always, lies somewhere in between.

Yep I would go along with that.

I am not one to try and force my opinion on others, perhaps I state it with enthusiasm sometimes, but I certainly agree there is no harm in believing in the fine details making a difference so long as that opinion is not forced on others either. In reality, like you also said, the "truth" is likely some middle ground.

What I am not keen on is the way that such passionate belief in things of this nature are bandied about on places like this leading to new folks thinking that they are missing out because they don't have this or that bit of gear. In reality the first 90% of the sound quality comes with the first 10% of the cost ...... give or take.

Anyway, I have vented sufficiently

 

[AussieMick]

With cables, we know that in theory they should all sound the same, but we also know that they can sound quite different.

It's a pretty deep subject to get into. Measurable differences can be inaudible, unmeasurable differences can be audible. Part of it depends on what you are measuring, of course. With cables, we know that in theory they should all sound the same, but we also know that they can sound quite different.

We then get into the design, material choice and construction quality. These  can define the price point, and this is where there is scope for significant improvements, if the original cable was not good. If the original cable was good, the scope for improvement in reduced.

Then we need to define improvement. This is where the terminology used by audiophiles comes in. Beyond a certain level of expected performance, we are looking at differences that are subtle to some, blatant to others. But they are often differences, not necessarily improvements, and this is where our subjective preferences take over.

For my part, I can easily blind listen to a Mojo 2, a Hugo 2 and a Shanling M6 and, with my well known musical test pieces, identify which I am listening to. The Mojo 2 has a difference in character that I can objectively describe, but the other two are actually closer in sound and the way the sound feels is more the defining difference than specifics of how they sound. Cables though, if not defective, are already close to their diminishing returns plateau and although I've never listened to £700+ headphone cables, I do wonder if I'd be able to tell the difference between one and the stock item supplied with the Quad ERA-1.

Personally, I'm more interested in the music than obsessing about the gear, but, the gear is important to get the music through!

I’m not sure about one part of this. In theory we know they should indeed sound different. Stranded, solid core, Litz…copper, silver, tinned copper, silver plated copper…measurable differences with these that do explain them sounding different, some to do with skin effect, others with conductivity. Connectors chosen can sound quite different, too, as can the quality of soldering or cold welding. Even the thickness of cables can impact an amp’s ability to deliver power under load (admittedly that’s more of a speaker thing than a headphone thing).
I do agree that the results can be down to preference rather than saying “better” or “worse” because we don’t really have standards with which everyone discusses these things.
Hearing differences also gets impacted by the gear we use. Some people like highly resolving systems in which differences can be more obvious, where others prefer systems that aren’t a “warts and all” presentation, in which these subtle differences just aren’t as apparent.
So many variables to consider that’s it’s impossible to discuss anything in absolute terms. My source, amp, headphones and cables will be different than the set ups of others, and the music I listen to different again. Not to mention my personal preferences in presentation and sound character.
I 100% believe anyone who says, “I tried that and heard no difference” and also those who say, “I tried that and heard a difference”. Sometimes trouble occurs when we take our personal experience and extract from it universal truths.

 

[Kentajalli]

I’m not sure about one part of this. In theory we know they should indeed sound different. Stranded, solid core, Litz…copper, silver, tinned copper, silver plated copper…measurable differences with these that do explain them sounding different, some to do with skin effect, others with conductivity. C

I am eager to learn, can you provide some please, a link perhaps.
Thanx

 

[AussieMick]

I am eager to learn, can you provide some please, a link perhaps.
Thanx

I’d direct you to many episodes of The Hifi Podcast with Darren and Duncan. Listen to all 87 episodes and you get a broad education. Also podcasts hosted by Darko when he interviews Mark Jenkins, Nuno Vittorino, Garth Powell, Rob Watts, Paul McGowan, Darren Myers…
Then go to the Belden and Blue Jeans websites and check out technical papers by Galen Gareis (spelling might not be right!) who’s been incredibly open about his designs and use of materials and geometries.

https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/

White papers free for anyone to look at.

It also has to be said that surely companies such as AudioQuest, Transparent, Nordost, Kimber etc would have a great deal of proprietary research that wouldn’t be public knowledge. The IP of these companies must run deep.

All of the podcasts I mentioned are also entertaining, which helps. You don’t have to believe everything they say of course, but designers at the front edge are going to know more than your standard person with a degree in electronic engineering.

https://www.commongroundcables.com/

Fantastic power cables. Description of engineering goals.

 

[headfry]

Here's an overview by an established cable designer: https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rcl-part-2-roger-skoff-cables/

 

[ChrisGB]

I’m not sure about one part of this. In theory we know they should indeed sound different.

I'm more thinking that although we can measure the differences in cables, in theory our hearing shouldn't be able to detect these tiny differences. But as we all know, we can detect differences, even in stuff that measures the same.

 

[Musicophilesblog]

I'm more thinking that although we can measure the differences in cables, in theory our hearing shouldn't be able to detect these tiny differences. But as we all know, we can detect differences, even in stuff that measures the same.

Guys don’t you think we have enough cable discussions elsewhere already? Can we move this back on topic?

 

[Daniel Johnston]

+1 on the cable debate. It's a no win situation and you won't be able to come to a consensus.

That being said, I ordered the non 1960s version of the PW adapter for Mojo 2. I have the ddHifi 4.4 to 3.5 adapter. It's great, but it seems to put a bit too much strain on the 3.5 connector on the Mojo (with the DCA Vivo cable). I'm sure it's safe, but I like the PW adapter's design better.

 

[Nostoi]

+1 on the cable debate. It's a no win situation and you won't be able to come to a consensus.

That being said, I ordered the non 1960s version of the PW adapter for Mojo 2. I have the ddHifi 4.4 to 3.5 adapter. It's great, but it seems to put a bit too much strain on the 3.5 connector on the Mojo (with the DCA Vivo cable). I'm sure it's safe, but I like the PW adapter's design better.

Quite. Very tiresome discussion.

And this is exactly the reason why I bought the PW adapter - ergonomically it works much better and you can be assured it won't harm the 3.5mm sockets. I use it everyday out and about - in cafes, on trains, in my pocket - and am very happy with the result. I had the DD one before, and the fact it swivels around basically renders it useless to me.

 

[AussieMick]

@Nostoi @Daniel Johnston @Musicophilesblog you’ll note we weren’t debating, just having a rather civilised and grown up conversation with appreciation for what each other were saying.
However, point taken.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

@Nostoi @Daniel Johnston @Musicophilesblog you’ll note we weren’t debating, just having a rather civilised and grown up conversation with appreciation for what each other were saying.
However, point taken.

No worries.

Cable discussions usually degenerate into ugliness. Seen it too many times. Intentions are always good at first.

 

[ZeDuK]

Hello there,
I have a Mojo 2 at home for the second time… some things need to be done twice.
Is there a cable available now to use with an iPhone (excluding the lightning to USB A adapter) ?