[rkt31]

   
With the current Chord DACs, anything beyond standard DSD (DSD64) has dropouts using any level of Mac hardware (from the top of the line Mac Pro to a lowly Mac Mini, and everything in between) via USB if you're on OS 10.11.4 or later.
 
The issue is NOT just a Mac issue, but there certainly seem to be additional challenges with USB handling on OS X and Chord's DACs.
 
I've reproduced the problem on various high-spec Windows machines, as well as things like the Surface Pro 4, using the Chord provided driver.  Doesn't matter what software is in use (JRiver, Roon, Audirvana, Foobar2000 etc.) or what else is/isn't running.  I've also reproduced the issue using things like the Auralic Aries as the interface.
 
While the problem is not specific to Chord, there are certainly plenty of DACs out there that do not exhibit this problem.  For example, I've had no such issues with a PS Audio Directstream or Auralic Vega, or even the IFI Micro iDSD even at DSD256.
 
Trying to get any support on this from Chord has been completely fruitless.  I either get some nonsense about the overhead in converting DSD to DoP (which is massively trivial processing even for a smartphone and even if it wasn't, I have the fastest Macs available and if they can't handle that then no other Mac is going to) - which pretty much shows they didn't bother to read the information they were provided, or no response at all.  Dealers aren't any help.  Bottom line, if you want high-rate DSD on a Mac running current OS X builds, don't buy a Chord DAC right now.
 
Things I'm sure about ... it's not an issue with the performance of my hardware, it's not unique to OS X, other DACs work fine, and I've reproduced the issue with more machines than I care to think about now across the Mojo, Hugo, Hugo TT and DAVE.
 
Love what Chord's DACs sound like ... not happy about the support or lack of communication.
 
I've actually taken DAVE off my potential purchase list until this issue gets some kind of proper response.

somewhere rob explained recently that why windows os is superior not just for dsd but for having better data transmission via asio driver which only windows allows. i have not had any problem upto dsd128 dop to hugo even though a cheap windows tab. i have successfully played dsd256 to mojo in dop through lenovo i7 laptop without any problem whatsoever. why stick to mac , try windows. 

 

[gnarlsagan]

@Torq Does DSD provide any audible benefit over FLAC through the Mojo? Also, can DSD be losslessly converted to a format that doesn't exhibit the issue?

 

[Torq]

 
somewhere rob explained recently that why windows os is superior not just for dsd but for having better data transmission via asio driver which only windows allows. i have not had any problem upto dsd128 dop to hugo even though a cheap windows tab. i have successfully played dsd256 to mojo in dop through lenovo i7 laptop without any problem whatsoever. why stick to mac , try windows.

 
I can make the music play ... it just drops out periodically.  Windows isn't immune to the problem either ... depends on the hardware.
 
There is nothing superior about Windows for audio.  Chord could easily create an appropriate driver for OS X, they choose not to because, in general, that sort of nonsense isn't required (Windows still doesn't support USB Audio 2 even).  Maybe the issue will get enough notice that they'll tackle it.  Maybe the problem will get tweaked on the Apple side of things (but it's still not an OS X only issue).
 
As for trying Windows ... I've been a Windows user/developer for years.  For my personal work and my development activities I switched to OS X and won't be switching back any time soon.  Windows offers nothing I need and no benefit to what I do - in fact it's significantly more limiting as a developer.
 
Also, I'm not running a Windows machine just for audio.
 
That the issue persists using other interfaces, and that there's no issue with other DACs I've tried means that something in how the Chord DACs handle DoP is also a factor.  I expect that the output is being muted in the DAC when there is a "DoP fault", but other DACs are working fine so the easiest solution is to buy a DAC that doesn't exhibit the problem.
 
When it comes to spending my money, especially when we're talking about $13,000 for a DAC, my requirement is that you make it easy for me to do so.  Making support difficult to get/non-existent, or asking me to change my computing infrastructure, or manage a special dedicated machine for it, when options exist that do not require that, is a first-class way to have my buy something else.
 
I won't jump through hoops in order to buy a product that isn't working as I think it should and that I cannot get adequate support for.
 
I don't even NEED DSD playback as such ... but after my "support" experiences and my general aversion to buying things that apparently cannot be made to work properly as advertised, I'll be damned if I'm going to drop that sort of money on a product that can't be fully utilized in my environment.

 

[Jazic]

 

 

[Torq]

@Torq Does DSD provide any audible benefit over FLAC through the Mojo? Also, can DSD be losslessly converted to a format that doesn't exhibit the issue?

 
Not that I've heard.
 
While I've had many DSD demos where I've heard differences, none have been obviously better (and if they have, the difference always came down to the masters, not the encoding).
 
My hang-up around DSD here is that it is supposed to work, and in trying to make it do so I've gotten a bad taste in my mouth about the support that's available for these products.  I've never even needed support for an audio product before, but to do so and have it be less than useful (and hard to engage), has tainted my view of the products in question.
 
As I understand the math, a conversion from DSD to any PCM format would be technically lossy (i.e. you couldn't get the original back by reversing the process) ... whether it lost anything in terms of sound quality is another matter.  However, for many DACs the point of DSD is not just what data it encodes, but the simplicity and (allegedly) greater linearity achievable in the DAC implementation ... so converting to any other format would lose both of those benefits.
 
I'm quite willing to ignore DSD as a format as I've still not heard any consistent benefit, even on quad-rate stuff, and 99.99% of my music is in lossless PCM anyway.  I'm less welling to buy a product that I cannot use to it's fullest - especially where options that work exist.

 

[Torq]

Since you are able to easily reproduce the issue, why don't you send traces to Chord?
By traces, I mean capturing USB traffic with use of software like USBpcap/Wireshark.
This is not my domain but it will surely help Chord understanding the problem.
Rgds

 
I'd be more than happy too.
 
The trick is getting someone at Chord to actually be responsive enough to talk to.  THAT is the bigger issue.  I've connected with several people both directly at Chord and via here,, but they're either dismissive of the issue (claiming it is something unrelated to what's actually happening, or they ask for details and then never respond, or they just never respond at all).  I can't force them to respond ... and I've put forth way more effort than is in anyway reasonable in trying to get to the bottom of this.
 
It's not just me that can reproduce the issue either; I've now worked with dealers both in the US and the UK that see the exact same thing consistently.
 
Reproduction is so easy that, in fact, I don't know of anyone that has this working on a current build of OS X at all.  And it was my local dealer that first showed the issue exists with some Windows machines as well.
 
At this point, it's easier to stop spending time on it and just remove the Chord DACs from consideration of my next DAC purchase.  I don't care to spend more time trying to resolve an issue that Chord seem unwilling to acknowledge or try and provide support for.

 

[betula]

 
 

Noice maite.

 

[Jazic]

 
Noice maite.

 
Thanks.. I've tried every single type of tip you can have and nothing sounds better to my ears than these old school triple flanges. Every IEM I have I've got some sort of adapter so I can use these wide mouthed flanges. I use leftover Red/Blue Orings from my Mechanical Keyboard for additional spacing for better fit and also to identify L/R easier. 
 
Spinfits, Comply, Silicone, Double Flange, pickled eggs, electrical tape.. jk on the last ones but nothing sounds and seals and fits better... I love the soundstage with the triples as well. It cooks the sound longer in the tube so it comes out sounding more spacious and with no sibilance at all.. 
 
Sorry to go off on a rampage about tips.. 
 
The Mojo sounds good. I plan on burning both in over the next few days. 
 
EDIT: How long should I burn-in the Mojo for by the way?

 

[esm87]

Thanks.. I've tried every single type of tip you can have and nothing sounds better to my ears than these old school triple flanges. Every IEM I have I've got some sort of adapter so I can use these wide mouthed flanges. I use leftover Red/Blue Orings from my Mechanical Keyboard for additional spacing for better fit and also to identify L/R easier. 

Spinfits, Comply, Silicone, Double Flange, pickled eggs, electrical tape.. jk on the last ones but nothing sounds and seals and fits better... I love the soundstage with the triples as well. It cooks the sound longer in the tube so it comes out sounding more spacious and with no sibilance at all.. 

Sorry to go off on a rampage about tips.. 

The Mojo sounds good. I plan on burning both in over the next few days. 

EDIT: How long should I burn-in the Mojo for by the way?

does mojo sound quality change with burn in?

 

[betula]

   
Thanks.. I've tried every single type of tip you can have and nothing sounds better to my ears than these old school triple flanges. Every IEM I have I've got some sort of adapter so I can use these wide mouthed flanges. I use leftover Red/Blue Orings from my Mechanical Keyboard for additional spacing for better fit and also to identify L/R easier. 
 
Spinfits, Comply, Silicone, Double Flange, pickled eggs, electrical tape.. jk on the last ones but nothing sounds and seals and fits better... I love the soundstage with the triples as well. It cooks the sound longer in the tube so it comes out sounding more spacious and with no sibilance at all.. 
 
Sorry to go off on a rampage about tips.. 
 
The Mojo sounds good. I plan on burning both in over the next few days. 
 
EDIT: How long should I burn-in the Mojo for by the way?

I think Mojo needs no burn in time. It is just ready to be used out of the box.
(Some headphones/IEMs might benefit from burn in time though.)

I am not really into IEMs, I prefer full sized headphones. But I do have a 2-3 years old IE80, which I use a couple of times in a year for traveling. I did struggle with finding a good tip/seal, so I feel your pain. I also tried comply an other tips, but ended up ordering custom tips back then. 
Probably I wouldn't do it for IE80 again, but I also don't regret it. Custom tips just absolutely beat any kind of other tips.

That said, I still prefer full sized headphones. (Have never heard CIEMs though.)
 

 

[Jazic]

does mojo sound quality change with burn in?

 
 
No idea. I just got it today.
 
To be honest the only thing I've ever burned in that has changed that I've noticed is a very slight change in my HD700's but hardly noticeable, likely it was just all in my head. The only thing I've ever noticed a difference (and it was quite large of a change) was my FLC 8S'. The bass got very very smooth as it burned in after just a few hours. It went from very good to omg it's not even the same!
 
 
EDIT: That said, I actually think burn-in is a good thing regardless of if it actually does anything worthwhile to the sound. Mostly I like the idea of running it through its paces and stressing it a little over a few days to make sure there are no issues. A damaged driver in an IEM/Headphone or bad hardware in a dac/amp will be noticeable after a few dozens that otherwise might not be reached until after the return/warranty period has passed. 

 

[Deftone]

Back on-topic, I'm curious to know:  Who, here, uses Mojo actually in their jacket or jeans/pants/trouser pocket?

Not me, it only gets turned on if I'm in a stationary position. Too much bulk for my pocket and not easy to adjust volume blind.

 

[Traveller]

I have a little problem  with my current setup.
 
Setup:
LG G4 (Android 6.0 Marshmallow) running UAPP (2.7.1) ->
OTG Micro-B to Micro-B (0.5M) ->
Mojo
 
Problem:
The first 0.5 secs of any manually-selected song (vanilla 16bit 44Khz WAV) is clipped and occasionally I hear a loud pop. The next song queued starts normally and otherwise, quality is perfect.
The problem does not appear when I have the same setup but I am using the AQ Dragonfly Red DAC (different cable). Ditto for my old Headroom Bithead (different cable, but also 0.5M in length).
 
This sounds to me like some kind of buffer issue - as if the Mojo is quicker to convert than the DAP can deliver... .
 
Anyone else had / have this issue? It's a minor detail but annoying all the same.
 
EDIT
Very interesting:
http://www.extreamsd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=311
User: "

roughly the 1st second of every track is fading in​

"
ExtreamSD: "

It's a 'feature' of Chord devices​

.

They fade in the sound when the USB alt setting is changed​

..."

 

[canali]

Wow scored on great condition iPod touch 6 128 gb...us$255...but 19gb used in apps alone so am left with 113gb. Now I can happily join the flac scene and tidal hifi offline downloading @ 50mb/5min song

 

[gnarlsagan]

I have a little problem  with my current setup.

Setup:
LG G4 (Android 6.0 Marshmallow) running UAPP (2.7.1) ->
OTG Micro-B to Micro-B (0.5M) ->
Mojo

Problem:
The first 0.5 secs of any manually-selected song (vanilla 16bit 44Khz WAV) is clipped and occasionally I hear a loud pop. The next song queued starts normally and otherwise, quality is perfect.
The problem does not appear when I have the same setup but I am using the AQ Dragonfly Red DAC (different cable). Ditto for my old Headroom Bithead (different cable, but also 0.5M in length).

This sounds to me like some kind of buffer issue - as if the Mojo is quicker to convert than the DAP can deliver... .

Anyone else had / have this issue? It's a minor detail but annoying all the same.

Might want to try looking at the tweaks available in the UAPP settings.