[yadoo]

I am sorry but 2600 USD more for a couple of capacitors with better USB is just ridiculous. Coming from electrical engineering background, I know from a true fact the chord didn't spend even 1% of that amount. You may wonder then why Chord puts this price tag? Because the market is stupid enough to accept. But what can you do? there are a lot of people with $$$$ like to be fooled and there is nothing you can do about it!
 
I am not against high-priced DACs like Dave. In Dave, you get a much much better algorithm with 126K tap filters (four times more hugo). Give yourself a bit of time and think before ordering TT. 

 

[Whazzzup]

  I am sorry but 2600 USD more for a couple of capacitors with better USB is just ridiculous. Coming from electrical engineering background, I know from a true fact the chord didn't spend even 1% of that amount. You may wonder then why Chord puts this price tag? Because the market is stupid enough to accept. But what can you do? there are a lot of people with $$$$ like to be fooled and there is nothing you can do about it!
 
I am not against high-priced DACs like Dave. In Dave, you get a much much better algorithm with 126K tap filters (four times more hugo). Give yourself a bit of time and think before ordering TT. 

glad i ignored your advice on hugo and especially TT. But i suspect your pearls of information are only for chord electronics as well.

 

[yadoo]

 
glad i ignored your advice on hugo and especially TT. But i suspect your pearls of information are only for chord electronics as well.
 

 
Alright, let's assume I am totally wrong from every possible perspective. Can you quantity how much TT better than the portable hugo? 1%? 10%? 100%? 1000%? and yes you can choose any amp you want, whether it is balanced or not balanced it is all up to you. 

 

[Whazzzup]

 


glad i ignored your advice on hugo and especially TT. But i suspect your pearls of information are only for chord electronics as well.
 

Alright, let's assume I am totally wrong from every possible perspective. Can you quantity how much TT better than the portable hugo? 1%? 10%? 100%? 1000%? and yes you can choose any amp you want, whether it is balanced or not balanced it is all up to you. 

I don't fall into the trap of naming a percent better on anything. How much % better is Hugo versus centrix? How much % better is Dave versus TT.? How much % better is 846 from an ear bud?
What is illuminating is you have not listened to TT and made a blanket statement on it, and if you read Hugo posts, you are not alone in making an incorrect assumption with no direct knowledge.
I have stated in the Hugo thread of doing a dozen a/b of Hugo and TT and finding it more appealing in every way. From larger sound stage, better authority, more bass slam with more detailed and salient Mids.
Rob watts the desighner of chord explained quite detailed why TT offers a better more darker sound than Hugo and the differences are not isolated to galvanic USB.
I will agree in this hobby there is diminishing returns and Dave may or may not be four times better than TT as reflected in its price differential, TT at present may be chords sweet spot as it were, it presently represents an end game dac for me, and Dave is not in my price range.
I don't amp, and Hugo TT offers plenty of authority to power hd800S for me. Plus I need not introduce an external distortion of an amp to my dac chain.

 

[yadoo]

I don't fall into the trap of naming a percent better on anything. How much % better is Hugo versus centrix? How much % better is Dave versus TT.? How much % better is 846 from an ear bud?
What is illuminating is you have not listened to TT and made a blanket statement on it, and if you read Hugo posts, you are not alone in making an incorrect assumption with no direct knowledge.
I have stated in the Hugo thread of doing a dozen a/b of Hugo and TT and finding it more appealing in every way. From larger sound stage, better authority, more bass slam with more detailed and salient Mids.
Rob watts the desighner of chord explained quite detailed why Hugo offers a better more darker sound than Hugo and the differences are not isolated to galvanic USB.
I will agree in this hobby there is diminishing returns and Dave may or may not be four times better than TT as reflected in its price differential, TT at present may be chords sweet spot as it were, it presently represents an end game dac for me, and Dave is not in my price range.
I don't amp, and Hugo TT offers plenty of authority to power hd800S for me. Plus I need not introduce an external distortion of an amp to my dac chain.

First for most. Yes I have 846 (I love them btw

) , but I also have HD800S. So in terms of headphones, we are on the same level.
 
Second, just look at the picture below: it is the same DAC board!!! and yes wires are used internally to expand the board to an amp. So what wrong with wires again? not to mentioned all studios around the world use them! if XLR wires are so sensitives to external noise then trust me the whole world will be in terrible, lol.
 
It is really hard not to have an external amp if you are in this hoppy. TT may work with current headphones but good luck using amp with I don't know Stax or a better amp! In hugo, no problem, everything is separated. In TT, just use it as a DAC and ignore the amp; what a wast of money then! 
 
>> I will agree in this hobby there is diminishing returns and Dave may or may not be four times better than TT as reflected in its price differential, TT at present may be chords sweet spot as it were, it presently represents an end game dac for me, and Dave is not in my price range.
 
I respect your opinion, but it is just not the case here. The portable hugo is the sweet spot. I listened to it one day ago, and there are noticeable differences between hugo and mojo.
 

 

[JaZZ]

 

I don't fall into the trap of naming a percent better on anything. How much % better is Hugo versus centrix? How much % better is Dave versus TT.? How much % better is 846 from an ear bud?
What is illuminating is you have not listened to TT and made a blanket statement on it, and if you read Hugo posts, you are not alone in making an incorrect assumption with no direct knowledge.
I have stated in the Hugo thread of doing a dozen a/b of Hugo and TT and finding it more appealing in every way. From larger sound stage, better authority, more bass slam with more detailed and salient Mids.
Rob watts the desighner of chord explained quite detailed why Hugo offers a better more darker sound than Hugo and the differences are not isolated to galvanic USB.
I will agree in this hobby there is diminishing returns and Dave may or may not be four times better than TT as reflected in its price differential, TT at present may be chords sweet spot as it were, it presently represents an end game dac for me, and Dave is not in my price range.
I don't amp, and Hugo TT offers plenty of authority to power hd800S for me. Plus I need not introduce an external distortion of an amp to my dac chain.

First for most. Yes I have 846 (I love them btw

) , but I also have HD800S. So in terms of headphones, we are on the same level.
 
Second, just look at the picture below: it is the same DAC board!!! and yes wires are used internally to expand the board to an amp. So what wrong with wires again? not to mentioned all studios around the world use them! if XLR wires are so sensitives to external noise then trust me the whole world will be in terrible, lol.
 
It is really hard not to have an external amp if you are in this hobby. TT may work with current headphones but good luck using amp with I don't know Stax or a better amp! In hugo, no problem, everything is separated. In TT, just use it as a DAC and ignore the amp; what a wast of money then! 
 
>> I will agree in this hobby there is diminishing returns and Dave may or may not be four times better than TT as reflected in its price differential, TT at present may be chords sweet spot as it were, it presently represents an end game dac for me, and Dave is not in my price range.
 
I respect your opinion, but it is just not the case here. The portable hugo is the sweet spot. I listened to it one day ago, and there are noticeable differences between hugo and mojo.

 
Even with your «electrical engineering background» you should take the time to care for the actual design of the Hugo TT. Since it doesn't have a dedicated headphone amp (like the Hugo), any amp you attach to it has to deal with the same signal meant to drive headphones – as headphone out and line out share the same path and there's no way to bypass the internal «amp». So there's nothing to gain with amps, except for increased distortion and maybe power – if you really need more than the TT outputs.
 
I haven't heard the TT, but according to my experiences with Hugo and Mojo every complication of the signal path via external amp compromises transparency and accuracy and slows down impulsivity.
 
(And by the way, wires, like every single analogue electronics component, absolutely have to be taken into consideration when it comes to the sonic result – according to the developer himself).

 

[Whazzzup]

@yadoo

first here is rob watts quote on tt versus hugo
 

 
TT is better than Hugo for a number of reasons. The extra batteries and supercaps help,as it reduces the PSU impedance. I don't need the supercaps in Dave as the impedance of the supply is extremely low - critical parts are 0.0005 ohms impedance and less than 1uV noise - but that's done by complex analogue design. The extra bulk on metalwork also helps to reduce vibration.
 
There are other differences too; galvanic isolation on the USB, and a much better reference supply for the DAC flip-flops. This reduces distortion and noise by some 4 dB over Hugo.
 
All in all its quite a lot of changes.
 
Rob

Hogo TT is warmer and darker than Hugo, with much more authority to the instruments.   I can't see how anybody could describe it as brighter against Hugo.   Rob
 
 
Until you listen to TT and Hugo I can't comment on your observations about TT. After testing both to me, yes TT is the sweet spot. MoJO was released not as an advantage except in price and portability to hugo. Realize i love hugo and will not buy MOJO and dave is not in my price target. 
 
I totally disagree about external amping, with TT unlike i found with hugo, its not necessary for hd800S. 

 

[yadoo]

   
Even with your «electrical engineering background» you should take the time to care for the actual design of the Hugo TT. Since it doesn't have a dedicated headphone amp (like the Hugo), any amp you attach to it has to deal with the same signal meant to drive headphones. So there's nothing to gain with amps, except for increased distortion and maybe power – if you really need more than the TT outputs. (And by the way, wires, like every single analogue electronics component, absolutely have to be taken into consideration when it comes to the sonic result – according to the developer himself).

Internally it is not one board. They are two separate boards and should be. Maybe I am missing something from the pictures, but that what it looks like. Perhaps, someone can post more clear pictures to show how the hugo board is expanded. That will be fantastico There is no magic in electronics
 
The problem is not how chord done it. I have just a hard time to justify the high price tag. Did they redesign they whole hugo board? NO. Did they add a better algorithm with more tap filters? NO. Did they add outstanding amp that cost 2000 USD? Again no. So why we are paying twice the amount? That is the main point of this discussion. 

 

[JaZZ]

 

   
Even with your «electrical engineering background» you should take the time to care for the actual design of the Hugo TT. Since it doesn't have a dedicated headphone amp (like the Hugo), any amp you attach to it has to deal with the same signal meant to drive headphones. So there's nothing to gain with amps, except for increased distortion and maybe power – if you really need more than the TT outputs. (And by the way, wires, like every single analogue electronics component, absolutely have to be taken into consideration when it comes to the sonic result – according to the developer himself).

Internally it is not one board. They are two separate boards and should be. Maybe I am missing something from the pictures, but that what it looks like. Perhaps, someone can post more clear pictures to show how the hugo board is expanded. That will be fantastico There is no magic in electronics

Some more info for you (not about the TT specifically).

 

[JaZZ]

The problem is not how chord done it. I have just a hard time to justify the high price tag. Did they redesign they whole hugo board? NO. Did they add a better algorithm with more tap filters? NO. Did they add outstanding amp that cost 2000 USD? Again no. So why we are paying twice the amount? That is the main point of this discussion. 

 
In fact there is no «problem». Music lovers who find the increase of sound quality worth the price difference will buy the TT instead of the Hugo. As it seems, a majority who has compared them agrees on the distinct sonic superiority. Chord as the manufacturer doesn't even have to justify the higher price with massively increased manufacturing costs, the only criterion is the value for the customer.
 
Note that in the audio business, like in others, the main goal is profit. That doesn't exclude a personal enthusiasm for the products, which is certainly the case with Rob Watts and John Franks.

 

[yadoo]

 
Some more info for you (not about the TT specifically).

I know inserting an external component to the ring will add distortion. There is no doubt about that. However, there are some amps currently in the market that are really good. Take Phonitor e for example which has THD & N: 0.00091 % (at 0 dBu, 1kHz, 100 kohms load). I doubt TT will give you 3% improvement over phonitor and hugo connected with ultra low capacitance cables, not even close. It will be fantastic if someone can measure distortion for this setup. Therefore, does TT alone is better? yes. Does 10% better or even 5% better if I use hugo with efficient external amp (assuming you already have one)? Likely no.
 
It is a business like any other and profit off course the main goal. Yet, the consumers can change these types of greedy practices. I don't mind having dave with high rice tag. That is perfectly ok. Different algorithm, different design, different components, the measurements are outstandingly different. TT on the other hand, ahhhhhh with that price tag, it is hard to justify it. 

 

[JaZZ]

 

  Some more info for you (not about the TT specifically).

I know inserting an external component to the ring will add distortion. There is no doubt about that. However, there are some amps currently in the market that are really good. Take Phonitor e for example which has THD & N: 0.00091 % (at 0 dBu, 1kHz, 100 kohms load). I doubt TT will give you 3% improvement over phonitor and hugo connected with ultra low capacitance cables, not even close. I will be fantastic if someone can measure distortion for this setup. Therefore, does TT alone is better? yes. Does 10% better or even 5% better if I use hugo with efficient external amp? Likely no.
 
It is a business like any other and profit off course the main goal. Yet, the consumers can change these types of greedy practices. I don't mind having dave with high rice tag. That is perfectly ok. Different algorithm, different design, different components. TT on the hand, ahhhhhh with that price tag, it is hard to justify it. 

 
According to my extensive tests in the past there are no neutral sounding amps. And the main thing: You can't «improve» the Hugo's output signal with additional amplification, even if it's «just» 0.00091 harmonic distortion that's added. To my ears the obscuring effect and the coloration introduced by an amp is much more substantial than the usually very low distortion figures make you believe.

 

[SAP7]

I paid more for my Hugo TT.

It sits better in my sytem. It has balanced outputs. It has a remote so I can use it as my pre amp in my main system and not have to fiddle to turn it up.
It has an input memory.
It sounds better than my old Hugo.
It still makes my Grados sound wonderful. And the jacks all fit. As do any cables.

That justified it to me. Yes, the cost doesn't add up to a literal improvement, but so what. You have made the point and I don't disagree. I can see it's a Hugo with bits added.

I'm happy.

 

[yadoo]

   
According to my extensive tests in the past there are no neutral sounding amps. And the main thing: You can't «improve» the Hugo's output signal with additional amplification, even if it's «just» 0.00091 harmonic distortion that's added. To my ears the obscuring effect and the coloration introduced by an amp is much more substantial than the usually very low distortion figures make you believe.
 

'Coloring' is distortion whether we like it or not (signal processing 101). Otherwise, the sound of TT should be identical to hugo (the purest component in the ring) with the assumption that the chips in both systems get exact same input signal.  In TT, since there is a built in amp,it adds distortion to the whole setup. There is no amp in the market, whether internal or external, cannot add distortion. Numbers never lie; They will tell you the whole story 

 If you want to improve sound purely (such as finding more details like Dave), then you need a better DAC algorithm instead of adding an amp. Pure amp can only improve in meeting the demand the voltage and current requirements of your headphones. Thus, if you tell me TT have a better obscuring effect, then I will say it added an amp to the setup which gives you coloring aka more distortion to the pure analog signal. An IEM attached directly to hugo will get more pure signal (aka less distortion), than IEM attached to the TT, again with the assumption that both chips gets exact same input signal.

 

[JaZZ]

 

  According to my extensive tests in the past there are no neutral sounding amps. And the main thing: You can't «improve» the Hugo's output signal with additional amplification, even if it's «just» 0.00091 harmonic distortion that's added. To my ears the obscuring effect and the coloration introduced by an amp is much more substantial than the usually very low distortion figures make you believe.
 

'Coloring' is distortion whether we like it or not (signal processing 101). Otherwise, the sound of TT should be identical to hugo (the purest component in the ring) with the assumption that the chips in both systems get exact same input signal.  In TT, since there is a built in amp,it adds distortion to the whole setup. There is no amp in the market, whether internal or external, cannot add distortion. Numbers never lie; They will tell you the whole story 

 If you want to improve sound purely (such as finding more details like Dave), then you need a better DAC algorithm instead of adding an amp. Pure amp can only improve in meeting the demand the voltage and current requirements of your headphones. Thus, if you tell me TT have a better obscuring effect, then I will say it added an amp to the setup which gives you coloring aka more distortion to the pure analog signal. An IEM attached directly to hugo will get more pure signal (aka less distortion), than IEM attached to the TT. 

 
You don't get it: You can't bypass the so-called amp in the TT (which is just the line-out stage), so with an external amp you have two amps in series and twice the coloring/obscuring effect. It's the same topology as in the original Hugo: no dedicated headphone amp built in!