[Christer]

"The same person who designed MQA also designed HDCD. Ever heard of it? We're now in its "future". That should give you a hint. "

Hmm, I thought Prof Johnson of Reference Recordings was the man behind HDCD all those years ago? And it did actually make rbcd sound better than before provided you played them back with a CD player that could decode the extra carrier signal of HDCD.
But I was under the impression that MQA is a product from Bob Stuart of Meridian?
And also HDCD brought more resolution whereas MQA seems to mainly be a way of compressing the original masterfile saving space.And according to what I have heard not quite losslessly.
HDCD was actually a good idea while it lasted and was needed. Prof Johnson now records at 24/176.4 and most of his recordings are demonstration standard or Reference standard recordings.
If one wants to test a DAC or any other HIGHEND HIFI product his recordings are very good testing material.
I am not quite sure the same can be said about MQA if the closest approach to the original sound is what one is looking for.
Correct me if I am wrong

 

[rostak]

So... it's been two hours since I started listening to Hugo 2 on my HD800S and so far, the clarity is wonderful, however, there is a distinct lack of bass. I was previously listening on a two-year old Pioneer AV receiver (don't flame me - I could only afford headphones first haha) and having gone back to it, it's definitely muddled in comparison but there's more depth to the bass. Not just bloated, the bass is almost palpable, as if the headphones deliver lower frequency. I tried playing stuff from my macbook, iPad ... hi res, spotify etc. and the feeling remains the same.

Does this mean I need to get an amp? I feel a bit down about it lol

 

[Whazzzup]

So... it's been two hours since I started listening to Hugo 2 on my HD800S and so far, the clarity is wonderful, however, there is a distinct lack of bass. I was previously listening on a two-year old Pioneer AV receiver (don't flame me - I could only afford headphones first haha) and having gone back to it, it's definitely muddled in comparison but there's more depth to the bass. Not just bloated, the bass is almost palpable, as if the headphones deliver lower frequency. I tried playing stuff from my macbook, iPad ... hi res, spotify etc. and the feeling remains the same.

Does this mean I need to get an amp? I feel a bit down about it lol

Felt the same way about Hugo 1 and hd800S. So options outside of eq are get different cans, try TT it has more depth bigger bass slam slightly darker than Hugo 1, prefer it for 800S. Concerning Hugo 2 I'm a week or so away from doing the tri fecta analysis. So can't comment yet on bass to bass comparison. It is a tight kicking bass tho in 1
An amp is not the solution, in that it provides scale not colour or more bass, at least better wire and gain amps. The dac conversion is what it is, you Would just get more of it.
Also give it time, brain burn in may help as well.

 

[rostak]

Hmm,

Felt the same way about Hugo 1 and hd800S. So options outside of eq are get different cans, try TT it has more depth bigger bass slam slightly darker than Hugo 1, prefer it for 800S. Concerning Hugo 2 I'm a week or so away from doing the tri fecta analysis. So can't comment yet on bass to bass comparison. It is a tight kicking bass tho in 1
An amp is not the solution, in that it provides scale not colour or more bass, at least better wire and gain amps. The dac conversion is what it is, you Would just get more of it.
Also give it time, brain burn in may help as well.

Cheers, mate. I appreciate this feedback as I wasn't sure if it's just in my head. For me, it lacks body that the receiver can deliver. It's really strange.

Many thanks for the advice on amps - I now get what they do and it's not what I'm missing in Hugo. TT is totally out of my price range atm - mortgage is a bitch haha. Are there any other desktop options available in under £2k range that are good for HD800S and deliver more power?

I will give it the weekend, there's the astounding clarity it has to consider. I might end up disliking the receiver and Hugo 2 as they point out each other's weaknesses

 

[EndGameSearch]

I have the HD800s as well and you can surely find a system that pulls more bass from them but performing at their best I don't think they are intended to be bass heavy headphone. I had the HD800 prior to upgrading and as wonderful as they were there were tracks that felt incomplete with the lack of bass. The HD800's corrected that "issue" and helped soften the treble a touch but they were not designed to accommodate all taste. Some less than ideal set ups will provide a fuller, heavier sound but that's not necessarily a good thing in terms of fidelity. You have two very fine pieces of gear that pair well in my opinion. It just may not be the sound you like or are use to but they will likely grow on you. It's definitely disappointing though expecting to be blown and away and then ending up with less than the expected results.

Out of curiosity, what type of music you typically listen to with the 800S?

 

[Doody]

IME, FWIW, @rostak most modern music reproduction is pumping up the bass - that's what consumers have told makers they want (cf. Beats by Apple). When I first listened to my CH2+HD800 I had the same "where's the bass?" reaction. But go find some bass-heavy, 30Hz-and-down tracks and there's plenty of bass - it's just that the CH2 isn't going to ADD anything to the mix - which your Pio may be doing. It wasn't until I started cranking Daft Punk that I grokked.

Remember that a four string double bass (for jazz and classical fans) doesn't get below 40 Hz. Same for an electric bass. When you put a low 5th string you're getting down towards 30. The low A0 key on an 88 key piano is 27.5 Hz. You have to go looking for Bosendorfer Imperials to get those extra keys down into the teens. Even a kick drum on a drum kit primarily resonates at kick at 100 Hz and up - it's only the decay that drops down towards 20. A standard tuba doesn't get below 30 Hz.

So if you want pounding bass, it's somewhat unnatural. If you listen to unamplified music live (folk music, "MTV Unplugged" situations, classical music, etc.) there isn't slamming, pumping bass, generally speaking. You need to go look for folks who are electronically altering the music (cf. Daft Punk) to "push stuff down". Or maybe go dig up some of those scary pipe organ recordings! I used to have an octave effects pedal for my electric bass that reproduced any note I played, one octave lower - so a low E would generate the E1 at 41Hz and the E0 at 21Hz. If you used that on a five string bass with a low B0 at 31Hz that would generate B-1 (is that a thing?) at 15 and change Hz.

Hope that's usfeul!

Doody

 

[Whazzzup]

Some better set ups will also provide more apealing bass as well. The hd800S has sufficient range to provide adequate bass and sub bass if the system projects that.
Eq is also a solution, although i prefer no eq filters etc.

 

[Hooster]

Does this mean I need to get an amp? I feel a bit down about it lol

Could be. If you like it better with an amp, then use it with an amp. This is audio for fun, not a religious community with dogmatic rules.

 

[Sarnia]

Hmm,

Cheers, mate. I appreciate this feedback as I wasn't sure if it's just in my head. For me, it lacks body that the receiver can deliver. It's really strange.

Many thanks for the advice on amps - I now get what they do and it's not what I'm missing in Hugo. TT is totally out of my price range atm - mortgage is a bitch haha. Are there any other desktop options available in under £2k range that are good for HD800S and deliver more power?

I will give it the weekend, there's the astounding clarity it has to consider. I might end up disliking the receiver and Hugo 2 as they point out each other's weaknesses

The Sony TA-ZH1ES (which I have) has a warmer signature and plenty of bass. It's an amazing piece of manufacturing, built like a tank and beautifully put together.

Here's a couple of reviews: https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-16-sony-audioquest-headphones-page-2, http://www.themasterswitch.com/review-sony-ta-zh1es

I had the HD800S and it paired very well with them. A few others on the TA-ZH1ES thread felt the same.

Occasionally Amazon UK have decent deals on them in Warehouse deals. They had an extra 20% off for Prime Day at the start of this week which made it a crazy bargain, but the two available were both snapped up by forum members. If you want a new one the best price is from advancedmp3players.co.uk, using the discount code of STAY10% brings the price down to £1,440.

 

[Whazzzup]

Could be. If you like it better with an amp, then use it with an amp. This is audio for fun, not a religious community with dogmatic rules.

Although you best make sure that mouth soap is handy

 

[miketlse]

Hmm,

Cheers, mate. I appreciate this feedback as I wasn't sure if it's just in my head. For me, it lacks body that the receiver can deliver. It's really strange.

Many thanks for the advice on amps - I now get what they do and it's not what I'm missing in Hugo. TT is totally out of my price range atm - mortgage is a bitch haha. Are there any other desktop options available in under £2k range that are good for HD800S and deliver more power?

I will give it the weekend, there's the astounding clarity it has to consider. I might end up disliking the receiver and Hugo 2 as they point out each other's weaknesses

Yes, all I can offer is my experience of a few hours with the Hugo 2.
It takes time for the brain to rewire slightly to cope with the additional information available from the hugo 2.
So give it a few hours, and already it feels like being at the actual recording session with some music.
A lot of modern music has the bass frequencies boosted, to cope with the modern consumers experience of listening to music en commute, with iems.
So any dac like the Hugo 2 that aims for a neutral frequency response risks sounding light in the frequency response.

I am currently listening with the H2 to a live steam from a friends internet radio broadcast using MP3 - I used to listen using my Mojo, but this is the first test using the Hugo 2. My conclusion is that it is good sound quality, and you will be difficult to better the H2 for MP3.
The H2 passes another test. Tomorrow I will try some interesting jazz tracks.

 

[x RELIC x]

Hmm,

Cheers, mate. I appreciate this feedback as I wasn't sure if it's just in my head. For me, it lacks body that the receiver can deliver. It's really strange.

Many thanks for the advice on amps - I now get what they do and it's not what I'm missing in Hugo. TT is totally out of my price range atm - mortgage is a bitch haha. Are there any other desktop options available in under £2k range that are good for HD800S and deliver more power?

I will give it the weekend, there's the astounding clarity it has to consider. I might end up disliking the receiver and Hugo 2 as they point out each other's weaknesses

The TT has less overall power output than the Hugo2. It's a matter of tuning and synergy most of the time rather than just max power.

Regarding Hugo1 and HugoTT power:

Hugo actual output is:
Output power - 1KHz 1V sinewave both channels driven 0.1% distortion
600 Ohms 35mW
300 Ohms 70mW
56 Ohms 320mW
32 Ohms 600mW
8 Ohms 720mW
Also Hugo TT share identical output stages, (except for increased bias current), same PSU voltage, same gain. So will deliver almost identical power for a given battery voltage.

Rob

The Hugo2's power (around 20-30% more than Hugo1 and HugoTT):

300 Ohms 94mW
33 Ohms 740mW
8 Ohms 1050mW


I REALLY wish the myth that just more max power always equals more bass and control would go away (for all audio gear). Design, implementation, and synergy for one's preferences are far more important than just max power output. I'm curious what receiver you have and what the specs are for the built-in headphone amp. Most home receivers headphone outputs are rather weak actually. The likely conclusion is you prefer the synergy of the receiver with the HD800S as the HD800S is known to be, comparatively with other headphones, a little bright. I found the Hugo2 quite honest to the recording and the headphone's signature doesn't hide behind coloration, but admittedly I haven't heard the HD800S with the Hugo2 so I really have no definitive conclusion regarding that headphone.

 

[Whazzzup]

Agree and that was my point. Power and scale through increased voltage does not transcend into more bass. You are corect that TT has more depth slam and darker slightly due to a host of topography differences. Looking forward to ch2.

 

[Peter Hyatt]

kinda hard to use search feature so if someone is not offended and can answer the questions about Filters:

Which color is "DAVE" filter? (l know it is not Dave so no need to insult)
Which color is "Mojo" filter?
What is "roll off"? does this mean some data is lost??

then for a bigger question I don't get the reducing soundstage thing -- is there a link here that help me understand the cross x feature? I really like how things seem spread wide? sorry this one is ignorance but I know it is something to do with sounding more like speakers.

 

[rostak]

I listen to various genres, definitely like electronic music but also acoustic and some classical ... and even in acoustic and classical music, I hear/feel more weight to the bass, not loudness, on my receiver. It's only there if the track has been mastered that way and a lot of EDM doesn't deliver on these headphones.

I've only used my HD800S with the receiver and Hugo 2 and Hugo 2 is miles ahead in clarity, in how smooth and musical it sounds. It's quite an emotional experience. I just miss a lower frequency component in the bass on some tracks that I know the headphones delivered before. And again, it's not loudness, it's almost below the frequency my ears can hear.

A couple of tracks where I've experienced this difference:
Sade - Hang on to your love
Ane Brun - Black notebook

Anyway, I will stop now - I don't want to spoil this wonderful product for anyone as everything else about the sound is incredible. So I will spend the weekend listening to it and then decide if it's for me or not.