Chord Electronics - Hugo 2 - The Official Thread
Apr 23, 2018 at 11:22 PM Post #12,226 of 22,546
Have these ever been resolved? I just had a reboot episode with my H2 and after touching the unit it was quite hot. I removed it from it's leather case for now but this was the first time this has happened. Today was also one of the hotter days here in Seattle, with our office being on the 2nd flr of an older building it got quite warm inside (about 75*F ambient). I only presume it will get to 85-90* during the Summer time here so this is a concern.

I am using a 2amp charger with the Hugo2 charging while being used to preamp active Fostex bookshelf speakers.


As I hear it, it's (just) a matter of tonal synergy, not a technical (driving) problem. I strongly recommend not to read too much into such listening experiences and reports. I for one didn't really like the Utopia out of the DAVE when I auditioned it at the store (didn't try any other source), but I could absolutely change my mind after carefully equalizing the over-all tonal balance – which takes time and patience, so my quick attempts there were unsuccessful. Hence my wholehearted encouragement: Use headphones with a (subjectively) flat amplitude response for judging gear – which means carefully equalizing them beforehand, since no headphone is flat by nature.


The problem with my unit persists. I have contacted Rob, and he hesitates to consider it faulty, although no one else has had these problems according to the Chord people – until yesterday, when WraithApe contacted me. The necessity for charging the Hugo before turning it on is not listed in the manual because it doesn't exist with the vast majority of the samples.

The problem with my unit persists. I have contacted Rob, and he hesitates to consider it faulty, although no one else has had these problems according to the Chord people – until yesterday, when WraithApe contacted me. The necessity for charging the Hugo before turning it on is not listed in the manual because it doesn't exist with the vast majority of the samples.

@JaZZ @iAudio365 -- ping for post above

For those that find the Hugo 2 to be no powerful enough to drive inefficient cans and want to keep that clarity should definitely give Massdrop CTH amp a go. For $250 it's quite transparent and only having a hint of addition to the Hugo 2's sound.
 
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Apr 24, 2018 at 12:08 AM Post #12,227 of 22,546
-I am relaying the issue of noise floor modulation because it's true. As stated before, this performance issue isn't exclusively tackled by Chord Electronics but by industry veterans Dolby Laboratories. It's not something that is made up and if you believe such, you will have a hard time trying to go against the AV science giant that is Dolby.

-By measurements I assume you are speaking of Robs digital performance simulations. Or are you talking about Chord DACs measurements in general, like Stereophile's measurements?

If it's the former, I cannot comment on Robs noise shaping performance as it appears to be only him and MSB who claim extreme noise shaping resolution is desired, which considering what I have posted above in regards to Hugo 2 and DAVE main differences it would - appear 260dB vs 350dB is audible to anyone who has A/B tested them both with the Blu MK2..

If it's the latter, then I would say the best measurements in regards to the specific areas Stereophile measure are not always audible. Stereophile dominantly measure the frequency domain, with the exception of their impulse response measurements. Impulse measurements matters very little; only being a good indication of phase response and filter length. To truly see how good a DACs time domain performance is, you need to employ more sophisticated measurement techniques - like an Energy Time Curve. If you look up the ETC measurements of the Chord Hugo, I won't tell you where to find them as that's spoon feeding at this point - you may understand..

- I was referring to measurements of Chord DACs in general, inclusive of Rob's, Stereophile's, ohmimage measurements of the Mojo and measurements from other sources. While I will allude that my technical understanding of the measurements is fairly limited, I have been fortunate enough to own Chord DACs and compare them to other DAPs. This is where Mojo comes in.

- Mojo was also claimed to have superior measurement over other DAPs and DACs, that were priced many time more its price tag. It was theorised that it should sound better than those DAPs. But when I compered to the LPG, I did not find it to be the case.

- What you say is true about the Lotoo PAW Gold (except it does run a class-A). Which is why it raised a red flag. I could refer you to a number of audiophiles who have multiple reference points, who share the same observation as mine that the LPG sounds better than the Mojo.

- If many of us are observing that a certain product 'X' sounds better than a product 'Y', while the measurements actually suggest otherwise, then are we measuring the variables that should be indicative of perceived sound quality?

- I don't mind giving props where it is due. You could check my Hugo 2 review under my profile and it performed better than the LPG and I had no trouble admitting it. I am not a Chord hater. After all, I own a Hugo 2 and I wouldn't own it, if I thought it didn't sound good. I am just not comfortable when claims like 'Chord DACs are superior over all the other DACs in the market' are made. It just creates a lot of hype and misleads people, when in reality there are plenty of great DACs out there that sound as good as Chord DACs.

- And thanks for pointing out the ETC measurement. I am guessing it is in one of RW's slides from the seminar. I will have to look that up later. I used to fervently read up on his posts and watch his seminars. But once I realised, there are other DAPs and DACs that sound equally good, I stopped caring about. But I don't mean that in any disrespectful manner to RW. All I have is respect for him and his engineering. Just that, there was a time when I used to think that, Chord DACs were superior to all the other DACs in the market. I just don't believe in that anymore.

In regards to your second paragraph:

-What digital input are you using with your Hugo 2 and HD800 S and what's your music source and files in use?

Looking at the components of the Sony DAC and the performance of its predecessors, I don't understand how you feel it's "less fatiguing". I previously had the Audiolab M-DAC+ which uses the same ESS chip the Sony does; only superior components surrounding the chip - filter choice, class A output stage, low output impedance and shielded toroidal power supply etc. Upgrading from it to the Hugo 2, my previous fatigue (which I experienced with all off-the-shelf DACs I've listened to - which is a lot as I used to work in a hi-fi shop) has disappeared mainly because of the rendering of vocal sibilance on Hugo 2 which I have not found from any other brand (which will be down to its intelligent design). I used to use an external 88.2KHz upsampler which reduced digital edge and fatigue, but nowhere to the extent a Mojo or Hugo 2 does. My bet is your Sony DACs high output impedance is adding warmth to the bottom end as I will explain below..

"Synergy" isn't what you think it is. It isn't "what goes together", what you're actually doing is masking one components flaws with another component. I have talked about this before in one of my earlier comments in regards to Sennheiser HD800 and their HDV 820 headphone amp. Here's my previous comment:

"Sennheiser make the HDV 820 which is designed with the intention to add extra warmth and bass to the HD800. Its poor damping factor is successful in giving the HD800 a bit more bass and tilting the overall balance away from its crazy treble peak - it also increases low frequency harmonic distortion. If the HD800s didn’t have these problems in the first place, they wouldn’t need to tune it in such a way - do you get my drift? If you’re going to consider spending thousands on an amp to go in between the Hugo 2 and your high-end cans, first consider changing your cans. There’s a huge amount of choice on the market and it’s perfectly possible that you have picked the wrong set for your tastes. While there’s no perfect pair of portable transducers yet - there are some that are much closer to perfect than others.

Another thing of note, sometimes imaging (soundstage) can change when using an amp after the DAC. This is down to analogue bandwidth. Hugo 2 has an extremely wide bandwidth and incredible phase accuracy - which account for its imaging acuity and depth. Any amp after the Hugo 2 signal will massively reduce bandwidth and phase accuracy, destroying all the original imaging nuance and harmonic separation - in favour of “bigger”, rounded off imaging. This is exactly what the Hugo 2 does when you switch it to the Mojo filter in a way."

I mainly use Focal Spirit Classic with my Hugo 2 which is incredibly transparent and natural/fatigue-free. I have used Audeze LCD-2, Focal Spirit Professional, HD700, HD650, HD598 and never experienced any fatigue when streaming Tidal Hi-Fi music via optical from my AirPort Express hmm.. it couldn't possibly be the HD800 + damping factor right?..

- I was using the pairing of HD800S with Sony PHA-3 in a rhetorical sense. Meaning, PHA-3's performance is not to the level Hugo 2. I was using it as an illustration to prove a point that, brightness of the HD800S is what caused the fatigue when listening out of the Hugo 2, which is actually touted to help reduce the listener fatigue.

- Yes, most of the amps that pair ideally with the HD800 (and the other 300 Ohm Senns) typically have high OI, so that they can handle the headphone's 600 Ohm Impedance bump at 100Hz. But I wasn't referring to the HD800, when I said 'Lack of Synergy between Headphone and Source in terms of Impedance'. There are a few multi-BA IEMs with highly fluctuating Impedance Curves and some are very sensitive to the source impedance. There are a few IEMs which actually work better with a higher OI sources.

- Regardless of whether it is an IEM's or Headphone's flaw, my point was that, fatigue is more easily caused by other factors such as brightness, too much bass, listening at loud volumes, than, say noise floor modulation.

- Sure you haven't experienced fatigue on you HPs via the Hugo 2. But that does not conclude that, it was the low noise floor modulation on the Hugo 2 that prevented any fatigue. It could be numerous other factors such as lack of brightness in the recordings and headphones, your tolerance to treble, loudness at which you listen etc.


Anyways, thanks for this great post. I did learn a couple of things here. I will look up the ETC measurements later. I hate to drag this debate further and will stop here. Happy Listening!
 
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Apr 24, 2018 at 2:47 AM Post #12,229 of 22,546
- I was referring to measurements of Chord DACs in general, inclusive of Rob's, Stereophile's, ohmimage measurements of the Mojo and measurements from other sources. While I will allude that my technical understanding of the measurements is fairly limited, I have been fortunate enough to own Chord DACs and compare them to other DAPs. This is where Mojo comes in.

- Mojo was also claimed to have superior measurement over other DAPs and DACs, that were priced many time more its price tag. It was theorised that it should sound better than those DAPs. But when I compered to the LPG, I did not find it to be the case.

- What you say is true about the Lotoo PAW Gold (except it does run a class-A). Which is why it raised a red flag. I could refer you to a number of audiophiles who have multiple reference points, who share the same observation as mine that the LPG sounds better than the Mojo.

- If many of us are observing that a certain product 'X' sounds better than a product 'Y', while the measurements actually suggest otherwise, then are we measuring the variables that should be indicative of perceived sound quality?

- I don't mind giving props where it is due. You could check my Hugo 2 review under my profile and it performed better than the LPG and I had no trouble admitting it. I am not a Chord hater. After all, I own a Hugo 2 and I wouldn't own it, if I thought it didn't sound good. I am just not comfortable when claims like 'Chord DACs are superior over all the other DACs in the market' are made. It just creates a lot of hype and misleads people, when in reality there are plenty of great DACs out there that sound as good as Chord DACs.

- And thanks for pointing out the ETC measurement. I am guessing it is in one of RW's slides from the seminar. I will have to look that up later. I used to fervently read up on his posts and watch his seminars. But once I realised, there are other DAPs and DACs that sound equally good, I stopped caring about. But I don't mean that in any disrespectful manner to RW. All I have is respect for him and his engineering. Just that, there was a time when I used to think that, Chord DACs were superior to all the other DACs in the market. I just don't believe in that anymore.



- I was using the pairing of HD800S with Sony PHA-3 in a rhetorical sense. Meaning, PHA-3's performance is not to the level Hugo 2. I was using it as an illustration to prove a point that, brightness of the HD800S is what caused the fatigue when listening out of the Hugo 2, which is actually touted to help reduce the listener fatigue.

- Yes, most of the amps that pair ideally with the HD800 (and the other 300 Ohm Senns) typically have high OI, so that they can handle the headphone's 600 Ohm Impedance bump at 100Hz. But I wasn't referring to the HD800, when I said 'Lack of Synergy between Headphone and Source in terms of Impedance'. There are a few multi-BA IEMs with highly fluctuating Impedance Curves and some are very sensitive to the source impedance. There are a few IEMs which actually work better with a higher OI sources.

- Regardless of whether it is an IEM's or Headphone's flaw, my point was that, fatigue is more easily caused by other factors such as brightness, too much bass, listening at loud volumes, than, say noise floor modulation.

- Sure you haven't experienced fatigue on you HPs via the Hugo 2. But that does not conclude that, it was the low noise floor modulation on the Hugo 2 that prevented any fatigue. It could be numerous other factors such as lack of brightness in the recordings and headphones, your tolerance to treble, loudness at which you listen etc.


Anyways, thanks for this great post. I did learn a couple of things here. I will look up the ETC measurements later. I hate to drag this debate further and will stop here. Happy Listening!

My mojo when compared to something like fiio x7 sounds more natural, clean and precise. But x7 digs out more layers of music, has more no of instruments layers playing at the same time.

So I would say both are different and one is not inherently better than the other. Sort of like planar vs dynamic driver hp.

I wonder how hugo 2 compares to other $2000 dacs.
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 5:38 AM Post #12,230 of 22,546
But if this Sabre noise was in practise bad/audible, we’d have heard about that issue by now.

Benchmark has, or had, a write-up about the very same issues. I can't find it, as they seem to have removed their old blogs where it might have been.


To quote multiple people, instead of making 5 posts in a row, on each post you want to quote, click on the "+Quote" link bottom right, then in the quick reply box, click on "Insert quotes".

Does anyone have a recommendation for a coax to 3.5 cable that goes from Schiit eiter to the hugo 2? Amazon or reasonably priced cable would be great. I did search and just see links for UK sites. I'm in the United States..

Plug a regular 3.5mm TRS to dual-RCA adaptor into the coax input. Then you have two coaxial digital S/PDIF inputs. Then all your need is any 75-Ohm RCA S/PDIF cable.
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 6:28 AM Post #12,231 of 22,546
Apr 24, 2018 at 7:42 AM Post #12,232 of 22,546
Apr 24, 2018 at 8:18 AM Post #12,233 of 22,546
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/24/17273218/chord-hugo-2-review-dac-headphone-amplifier

GOOD STUFF
  • Distortion-free sound
  • Tough, rigid construction
  • Lots of power in a transportable package
BAD STUFF
  • Shrill highs spoil the enjoyment of music
  • Controls are extremely unintuitive
  • Flimsy MicroUSB ports
Hmmmmmmm...no comment!

I find the controls easy to use and intuitive, and I like the color indicators. This is despite my being a gadget-averse sort of person. That alone makes me wonder about whether this reviewer is firing on all cylinders.

Regarding the sound, his opinion is clearly in the minority, and perhaps he's used to and prefers a distorted sound. He cites the distortion-free sound as a good, but then says shrill highs spoil the enjoyment of music. Does he not see that blatant contradiction between those two statements?

In this age where anyone can appoint themselves an audio expert and post their "reviews" on the web, I sometimes wonder if there should be some kind of vetting of reviewers. In my profession, you need to have a license based on education, experience, testing, and professional references before you can express professional opinions.
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 8:58 AM Post #12,234 of 22,546
Anyone try the Hugo 2 with the Westone W80? I have the original hugo now and I hear a little hiss, have to add an impedance adapter to get rid of it, not noticeable when playing music but it is when it is silent. W80 is super sensitive. I
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 9:43 AM Post #12,235 of 22,546
Anyone try the Hugo 2 with the Westone W80? I have the original hugo now and I hear a little hiss, have to add an impedance adapter to get rid of it, not noticeable when playing music but it is when it is silent. W80 is super sensitive. I
Don't know about W80, but I could hear some very tiny hisses with my Andromeda and K10U plugged into Hugo 2, though not really that noticeable when music is playing. But things like Andromeda probably hisses with everything. And if you really care about it the iEMatch is worth trying.
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 10:02 AM Post #12,236 of 22,546
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/24/17273218/chord-hugo-2-review-dac-headphone-amplifier

GOOD STUFF
  • Distortion-free sound
  • Tough, rigid construction
  • Lots of power in a transportable package
BAD STUFF
  • Shrill highs spoil the enjoyment of music
  • Controls are extremely unintuitive
  • Flimsy MicroUSB ports
Hmmmmmmm...no comment!

Wow... This is the worst review of Hugo 2 I have ever seen! I can however understand why the reviewer feels the way he does. Someone I know who I let try Hugo 2 had a similar reaction, they hated the sound and complained it was too bright and unenjoyable. Yet another friend who I let try it really loved it.

I guess we all have different idea's of what good sound is but I suspect the reviewer might have had a different experience if he used a better source, specifically listening via optical. Oh well..
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 10:16 AM Post #12,237 of 22,546
Secondly, I know Rob Watts said that he designed the Hugo 2 differently. Meaning filtered noise from the USB lines out, thus removing noise brightness. However I am convinced I hear a darkening in tone if I pull out the charger while it's playing. It's not a huge darkening, but it's better when it's running only off battery.


I am genuinely only running my Hugo 2 off battery now.

You are not alone in thinking this. When I had Hugo 2 in desktop mode, depending on the time of day, Hugo 2 would sound slightly brighter or the way I remember it sounding the other day. I determined that at least in my home, Hugo 2 had consistent sound quality running off batteries.

When I got Hugo TT I noticed the same thing. I thought it was in my head at first but each time I unplugged its power cable I experienced a darkening of tone and experienced a more relaxed sound.

So now I just make a habit of unplugging the power cable as well as switching off irrelevant power strips in my room, the sound quality is now consistently good!

In Rob's home or someone elses it may very well be the case that there won't be any difference between power plugged in or not. YMWV it seems.
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 10:17 AM Post #12,238 of 22,546
Don't know about W80, but I could hear some very tiny hisses with my Andromeda and K10U plugged into Hugo 2, though not really that noticeable when music is playing. But things like Andromeda probably hisses with everything. And if you really care about it the iEMatch is worth trying.


I think the W80 sensitivity is up there with the Andromeda, really dont want to upgrade if this will be an issue. I kinda missed my W60 since sensitivity wasnt an issue.
 
Apr 24, 2018 at 11:06 AM Post #12,240 of 22,546
The Verge really has me scratching my head from time to time. They seem to favor sleezy tabloid style shock tactics to journalism. E.g., the headline: "The Chord Hugo 2 is the worst kind of audiophile equipment". Really? Has anybody else heard those unacceptably shrill highs?

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/24/17273218/chord-hugo-2-review-dac-headphone-amplifier

Yes, they may be saying contrarian and controversial things in order to get attention and traffic for the sake of their business interests. And that may backfire ...
 

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