[Rayon]

Ultima dac + Alto will definitely be something I want to audition

I really liked the sound signature of Anni, but that fan and poor channel balance at lower levels made me to sell it.

However, Ultima dac especially will likely be at eye watering price levels.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

Wow. My brain I always thought that those were probably just the top of the hill because they were so expensive. Never find out what they even sound like. Thank you.

Very fortunate to be in a position where price is no obstacle, I listened to all the top stuff at Munich last year hoping to find something at the crazy high end to top the MDave.

I know there's disagreement here, but of all the 5-figure DACs, the only one that to me gave MDave a run for its money was the MSB. Although I found it VERY different from MDave. I really enjoyed listening to it because of how it brought everything together, but at the same time the music didn't feel anywhere near as real to me, which is my preference. As a recording engineer, I'd rather hear something sound bad because it's an accurate reproduction of a bad recording (which is to me how MDave sounds) than sweet but smoothed out (like MSB sounded to me). But I can certainly understand how others might prefer the opposite.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

ASR and Gene make same error: it is their very own psychological bias that they covered every affecting aspect of nature with their measure. The bold claim that nothing can exist outside their scope of attention is an utter non scientifically attitude.

Perfectly said.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Very fortunate to be in a position where price is no obstacle, I listened to all the top stuff at Munich last year hoping to find something at the crazy high end to top the MDave.

I know there's disagreement here, but of all the 5-figure DACs, the only one that to me gave MDave a run for its money was the MSB. Although I found it VERY different from MDave. I really enjoyed listening to it because of how it brought everything together, but at the same time the music didn't feel anywhere near as real to me, which is my preference. As a recording engineer, I'd rather hear something sound bad because it's an accurate reproduction of a bad recording (which is to me how MDave sounds) than sweet but smoothed out (like MSB sounded to me). But I can certainly understand how others might prefer the opposite.

I can't stand that overly smooth nonsense these R2R DACs put out, I want to hear the visceral effect of music as it sounds live, I really detest these syrupy DACs and there are plenty of those. But, that's just me

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I did tell you before that there is a religion out there . Enjoy.

 

[pichler]

I'm having a very interesting experience, in mid-November I added the DC4 ARC6 and the capacitor board to the Dave, now that it's starting to stabilize, I really like the result. I had sensed the enormous potential of the Dave during a listen on August 13th, presumably the production activities were closed and many families in the surrounding area were also on holiday, so the AC was particularly clean. That day it was very clear to me where I had to intervene. I have no experience with other high-end DACs, but I think it's not easy to beat......but above all it satisfies me emotionally, which is what matters most.

 

[Reactcore]

I'm having a very interesting experience, in mid-November I added the DC4 ARC6 and the capacitor board to the Dave, now that it's starting to stabilize, I really like the result. I had sensed the enormous potential of the Dave during a listen on August 13th, presumably the production activities were closed and many families in the surrounding area were also on holiday, so the AC was particularly clean. That day it was very clear to me where I had to intervene. I have no experience with other high-end DACs, but I think it's not easy to beat......but above all it satisfies me emotionally, which is what matters most.

And havent even heard what the cap mods bring to the table

 

[SteveHulk]

I did tell you before that there is a religion out there . Enjoy.

The second of the complete paragraphs is brilliant.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

The second of the complete paragraphs is brilliant.

It definitely is, I'm reading the book now and it is fantastic. I love Mark Manson.

 

[The Jester]

I find Gene entertaining, I know somebody that knows him and this person told me about all the free stuff they get from Manufacturers at Audioholics, it's a funny site and I've enjoyed some of their content, Gene seems like a nice guy. Given that he's an engineer and as such follows the "science" he subscribes to the measurements religion. To me, measurements have a role, but do we really have all the measurements to quantity what we hear? I want to see him measure psycho accoustics and also measure preference, he can't. Do we fully understand time in measurements? Looking at the stuff they have posted it seems they don't. We have camps and religions on all sides and the "us vs them" is really a problem.

I’m not knocking anyone for using measurements, for most online retailers that’s the only way to show the quality of their products available, the expansion of our wonderful hobby/pastime/leisure/obsession online, in sales and in forums such as these generates more passing interest,
So go online, pick an affordable well measured favourably reviewed DAC, Amp, speakers, streamer etc, hook everything up with the supplied cables and you’ll have a pretty good sounding system, job done, sit back and enjoy, or keep reading about new stuff that sounds so much better…the rabbit hole beckons, approach with caution as it’s gets tricky from there…
I’ve always been lucky to have bricks and mortar stores within reach and as such have rarely bought anything without listening to it first, and once a relationship with such stores is formed hours can be spent listening “in store” or even take home on approval, knowing I’m not going to audition stuff and then go off and find the cheapest price online, that’s how I’ve bought all my equipment, what I liked the sound of and could afford, if there was something I really liked but couldn’t quite afford I was happy enough to go away and come back when I could, so a slow process …
Now in the happy position of just sitting back and enjoying my music collection reasonably safe in the knowledge that any noticeable improvement will be way beyond my foreseeable budget,
Only recently I realised that just about every part of my system was designed and produced by the owner of the company or its chief designer, not something designed to a market price point but something they were passionate about making, and it’s not by any means a “high end” setup, just the best I could afford,
So by all means use measurements as a yardstick for performance and value in building a system, but don’t go chasing a few points here and there on some leaderboard, or the next big thing in reviews, make the effort to listen to any potential “upgrades” however you can, dealers, shows, friends systems, local audio club if you have one, it’s your money and your music enjoyment nobody else’s ..

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I’m not knocking anyone for using measurements, for most online retailers that’s the only way to show the quality of their products available, the expansion of our wonderful hobby/pastime/leisure/obsession online, in sales and in forums such as these generates more passing interest,
So go online, pick an affordable well measured favourably reviewed DAC, Amp, speakers, streamer etc, hook everything up with the supplied cables and you’ll have a pretty good sounding system, job done, sit back and enjoy, or keep reading about new stuff that sounds so much better…the rabbit hole beckons, approach with caution as it’s gets tricky from there…
I’ve always been lucky to have bricks and mortar stores within reach and as such have rarely bought anything without listening to it first, and once a relationship with such stores is formed hours can be spent listening “in store” or even take home on approval, knowing I’m not going to audition stuff and then go off and find the cheapest price online, that’s how I’ve bought all my equipment, what I liked the sound of and could afford, if there was something I really liked but couldn’t quite afford I was happy enough to go away and come back when I could, so a slow process …
Now in the happy position of just sitting back and enjoying my music collection reasonably safe in the knowledge that any noticeable improvement will be way beyond my foreseeable budget,
Only recently I realised that just about every part of my system was designed and produced by the owner of the company or its chief designer, not something designed to a market price point but something they were passionate about making, and it’s not by any means a “high end” setup, just the best I could afford,
So by all means use measurements as a yardstick for performance and value in building a system, but don’t go chasing a few points here and there on some leaderboard, or the next big thing in reviews, make the effort to listen to any potential “upgrades” however you can, dealers, shows, friends systems, local audio club if you have one, it’s your money and your music enjoyment nobody else’s ..

I completely agree with you, I am also lucky that I have a great dealer/store near me that also allows me to demo the stuff home, that is also how I acquired all of my equipment. It really is wonderful to take the stuff home and hear how it sounds in your room, that is the ultimate review and the only one that matters.

 

[muski]

I'm having a very interesting experience, in mid-November I added the DC4 ARC6 and the capacitor board to the Dave, now that it's starting to stabilize, I really like the result. I had sensed the enormous potential of the Dave during a listen on August 13th, presumably the production activities were closed and many families in the surrounding area were also on holiday, so the AC was particularly clean. That day it was very clear to me where I had to intervene. I have no experience with other high-end DACs, but I think it's not easy to beat......but above all it satisfies me emotionally, which is what matters most.

Very interesting. I've recently come to the same conclusion about the DC4 ARC6. Seems like the right intervention.

Last weekend I connected my Mojo 2 dual mini-coax port to the highly-optimized source chain that feeds my DAVE (Transporter->PhoenixNet->optical ModuleDeluxe->opticalRendu->PhoenixUSB->ultraDgitial->M Scaler->Opto-DX Dual BNC). I was stunned by how good the Mojo 2 sounded. The DAVE still trumped it on many dimensions, but I was suprised that with the Mojo 2 I could easily hear subtle room reflections and a general "airiness" that just weren't audible on the DAVE. As I thought about explanations, I realized the DAVE was plugged into the mains, and the Mojo 2 was running off its battery (and was connected to an optically-fed Opto-DX RX unit also running off the unregulated Port II of a Bix battery). Sure made me think that cleaner/better power (and better grounding?) could take the DAVE to another level. So I'm saving for the DC4.

And, yes, the Mojo 2 is an incredible feat of audio engineering.

cheers,
muski

 

[nwavesailor]

I'm having a very interesting experience, in mid-November I added the DC4 ARC6 and the capacitor board to the Dave, now that it's starting to stabilize, I really like the result.

I also added a DC4 ARC6 + DAVECAP board (in January) and the results were immediate and far from subtle.
Yeah, the SJ is not an inexpensive DAVE upgrade, but I was pleasantly surprised and frankly thrilled with the results.
I have not considered buying a second DC4 for the M scaler.

 

[Rayon]

Then again there is overpriced overrated snake oil out there and psychological bias exist too, one can't really argue with that as a given.
So that sets the premise for a very difficult conversation between convictions.

The bold claim that nothing can exist outside their scope of attention is an utter non scientifically attitude.

This sums so well my thoughts. I absolutely love Amir's work on measurements. It gives us great objective baseline for comparisons and understanding about not only gear, but personal preferences as well. But many people there seem to lack scientific humility and real scientific curiosity. It's about ego and being in "inner circle" that "knows". Kind of emotional jail.

I've seen the same phenomenon elsewhere in science as well, and it's nothing new. It's so safe position for a scientist to parrot the narrative of the hegemony and not to take a risk of losing credibility due to suddenly being seen as someone "who doesn't understand". Darwin, Kopernikus, Einstein... It wasn't easy for them to challenge the paradigm.

 

[SteveHulk]

This sums so well my thoughts. I absolutely love Amir's work on measurements. It gives us great objective baseline for comparisons and understanding about not only gear, but personal preferences as well. But many people there seem to lack scientific humility and real scientific curiosity. It's about ego and being in "inner circle" that "knows". Kind of emotional jail.

I've seen the same phenomenon elsewhere in science as well, and it's nothing new. It's so safe position for a scientist to parrot the narrative of the hegemony and not to take a risk of losing credibility due to suddenly being seen as someone "who doesn't understand". Darwin, Kopernikus, Einstein... It wasn't easy for them to challenge the paradigm.

Even Einstein was unable to challenge the paradigm that the Universe is mechanical and deterministic - he rejected Quantum Mechanics because "God does not play games with dice"

The underlying issue here is not that measurements are useless, it's that the ones on which in audio we usually focus do not tell anything like the whole truth.

If you put a cheap transistor radio with a 1" speaker through the usual tests the results of course will be horrible.

But if you switch that radio on and and listen to a recording of a grand piano you can still easily tell that you are listening to a grand piano.

I don't think any of the measurements which we usually consider come anywhere near explaining how that is possible.