CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[801evan]

Also, the Dave doesn't get warm to the touch. I leave mine on 24/7.

Imma be contrarian on that one. If 10 mins is the warm-up and judge it from there, then I wouldn't recommend the Dave/ DAVE HP output. I do and will agree that with usb,.okay source and straight from wall, 10 mins may seems like the only warm up time required and it doesn't improve from thereon. But with my chain, 24 hour minimum.

 

[SteveHulk]

At the risk of getting my own head blown off in this crossfire I'll stick it above the parapet.

I've read here that the DAVE stock SMPS is a $40 part that is used to power medical devices. I've also read here (I think written by Rob Watts but correct me if not) that the amplifier stage in the DAVE is "two capacitors and two op amps in the signal path" and nothing else. This was said, I believe, to emphasise the line that the DAVE drives headphones properly.

So we have a situation where an amp built from such components is being compared to dedicated amplifiers with highly-specified PSU and gain stages which can be extremely expensive.

Is this discussion about whether the medical device PSU plus the caps and op amps really competes with specialised headphone amps designed for the purpose?

My take up to now was that the DAVE is really a pure DAC and that the preamp and HP out capability was there to make the purchase less painful in the sense that a new DAVE purchaser could unbox it, plonk it on a table, plug in headphones and have music without any extra expense at the time. However, if the true potential of the DAVE DAC technology was to be realised the user would have to move on from that.

 

[801evan]

At the risk of getting my own head blown off in this crossfire I'll stick it above the parapet.

I've read here that the DAVE stock SMPS is a $40 part that is used to power medical devices. I've also read here (I think written by Rob Watts but correct me if not) that the amplifier stage in the DAVE is "two capacitors and two op amps in the signal path" and nothing else. This was said, I believe, to emphasise the line that the DAVE drives headphones properly.

So we have a situation where an amp built from such components is being compared to dedicated amplifiers with highly-specified PSU and gain stages which can be extremely expensive.

Is this discussion about whether the medical device PSU plus the caps and op amps really competes with specialised headphone amps designed for the purpose?

My take up to now was that the DAVE is really a pure DAC and that the preamp and HP out capability was there to make the purchase less painful in the sense that a new DAVE purchaser could unbox it, plonk it on a table, plug in headphones and have music without any extra expense at the time. However, if the true potential of the DAVE DAC technology was to be realised the user would have to move on from that.

Fair point to consider

 

[adrianm]

Is this discussion about whether the medical device PSU plus the caps and op amps really competes with specialised headphone amps designed for the purpose?

That pretty much sums it up.

However, if the true potential of the DAVE DAC technology was to be realised the user would have to move on from that.

And this is pretty much my conclusion. Adding that for the folks that want to keep the sound signature unchanged, and just enhance everything else, the HPA4 is worth auditioning.

 

[MvRBE10]

At the risk of getting my own head blown off in this crossfire I'll stick it above the parapet.

I've read here that the DAVE stock SMPS is a $40 part that is used to power medical devices. I've also read here (I think written by Rob Watts but correct me if not) that the amplifier stage in the DAVE is "two capacitors and two op amps in the signal path" and nothing else. This was said, I believe, to emphasise the line that the DAVE drives headphones properly.

So we have a situation where an amp built from such components is being compared to dedicated amplifiers with highly-specified PSU and gain stages which can be extremely expensive.

Is this discussion about whether the medical device PSU plus the caps and op amps really competes with specialised headphone amps designed for the purpose?

My take up to now was that the DAVE is really a pure DAC and that the preamp and HP out capability was there to make the purchase less painful in the sense that a new DAVE purchaser could unbox it, plonk it on a table, plug in headphones and have music without any extra expense at the time. However, if the true potential of the DAVE DAC technology was to be realised the user would have to move on from that.

You are bang on, i bought a hp utopia for testing the dave and lps’s upgrade i started with farad, and to be honest i cannot find big differences with the hp besides a bit more bass. On the other hand on my two way speaker system the difference are enormous, depth, stage, bass tonality etc etc… there the dave is a dac. And as adrian is doing with adding an amp is a bit like creating the same setup as two way system. I an not reallly into headphones so addng an amplifier was a step to far for me but i understand adrians findings. He probably now with the amp the gain will be better if he adds a better lps. But as with everything we have to be ready to go to the next step and little steps are the fun of what we are doing.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...more like14 bucks (smps). Retail. Small quantity.

 

[iDesign]

At the risk of getting my own head blown off in this crossfire I'll stick it above the parapet.

I've read here that the DAVE stock SMPS is a $40 part that is used to power medical devices. I've also read here (I think written by Rob Watts but correct me if not) that the amplifier stage in the DAVE is "two capacitors and two op amps in the signal path" and nothing else. This was said, I believe, to emphasise the line that the DAVE drives headphones properly.

So we have a situation where an amp built from such components is being compared to dedicated amplifiers with highly-specified PSU and gain stages which can be extremely expensive.

Is this discussion about whether the medical device PSU plus the caps and op amps really competes with specialised headphone amps designed for the purpose?

My take up to now was that the DAVE is really a pure DAC and that the preamp and HP out capability was there to make the purchase less painful in the sense that a new DAVE purchaser could unbox it, plonk it on a table, plug in headphones and have music without any extra expense at the time. However, if the true potential of the DAVE DAC technology was to be realised the user would have to move on from that.

Exactly. It’s not like Rob Watts didn’t include outputs for owners to use whatever pre/amplifiers they prefer and it seems Head-Fi members forget it wasn’t conceived solely for use with headphones. And as I’ve said before, how many of the headphones in question like the Susvara were released years after the DAVE? If you bought an inefficient headphone to use with the DAVE, that’s on you.

 

[zen87192]

Dave has to be toasty with 24 hour warm up for me to even consider listening. Hope your test has that Dave unit warm and toasty on this audition.

Would that be on as in ON in Stand-by or with it actually ON with the display active as well?

 

[GryphonGuy]

DAVE's toasty heat comes from its onboard power supply. With external power, the case is barely even warm to the touch with its right side being marginally warmer than its left side.

I have found that there are nuances of differences in some music in the first 10 minutes or so but certainly after the first 20 minutes DAVE is rock solid in its audio presentation.

However, my DAVE is on 24/7 these days (unless thunder storms are very near) so is rock solid and unwavering from the outset.

Regards
GG

 

[crmiller]

I've read hints of this on multiple forums, and a dealer told me last week they sold the literal last one out of the factory a few months back. I'm not 100% sure it's permanent though. They might just be focusing production on the more profitable products , as the wait time is now 3-4 months.

Ah, I see. I have read lots of rumors, mostly as fallout to the botched APEX announcement, but you stated it so definitively. I think, at least in the USA, the sales model for the Bartok has changed as now we have some other retailers selling the Headphone amp model, but nothing else from dCS. Lead times with dCS are long anyway. I bought my Bartok last summer and it was at least 8 weeks, long enough I ordered and received a Linn streamer/DAC before it arrived.

 

[Triode User]

Would that be on as in ON in Stand-by or with it actually ON with the display active as well?

DAVE's toasty heat comes from its onboard power supply. With external power, the case is barely even warm to the touch with its right side being marginally warmer than its left side.

I have found that there are nuances of differences in some music in the first 10 minutes or so but certainly after the first 20 minutes DAVE is rock solid in its audio presentation.

However, my DAVE is on 24/7 these days (unless thunder storms are very near) so is rock solid and unwavering from the outset.

Regards
GG

I do find that even with an external PS the Dave can get warmer depending on what input signal it is processing.

My Dave is left switched on (ON, not in STANDBY) 24/7 but the display is always on Display 4 so that switches off after a short period.

 

[adrianm]

but you stated it so definitively

That's the official reply from the dealer, but I don't know him, and our entire conversation was centered around him telling me not to throw my money away on an expensive dac if i'm going to be using headphones. So mixed signals.

mostly as fallout to the botched APEX announcement

What was botched about it? The fact that the board won't fit in the Headphone edition? It's not available for the regular Bartok either.

 

[ubs28]

You are bang on, i bought a hp utopia for testing the dave and lps’s upgrade i started with farad, and to be honest i cannot find big differences with the hp besides a bit more bass. On the other hand on my two way speaker system the difference are enormous, depth, stage, bass tonality etc etc… there the dave is a dac. And as adrian is doing with adding an amp is a bit like creating the same setup as two way system. I an not reallly into headphones so addng an amplifier was a step to far for me but i understand adrians findings. He probably now with the amp the gain will be better if he adds a better lps. But as with everything we have to be ready to go to the next step and little steps are the fun of what we are doing.

Except, this guy is doing an unnecessary double output, introducing an additional output stage which is not needed. It is not like the internal output stage is replaced by that of the external amplifier. If you are using crappy B&W speakers which are a pain to drive, then it makes sense to introduce an additional amp stage.

And really, my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro drives headphones like the Sennheiser HD 650 and Sennheiser HD 800S fine just to show what kind of snake oil headphone amplifiers are. We are talking about milliWatts here, that is basically nothing.

 

[adrianm]

Except, this guy is doing an unnecessary double output, introducing an additional output stage which is not needed. It is not like the internal output stage is replaced by that of the external amplifier. If you are using crappy B&W speakers which are a pain to drive, then it makes sense to introduce an additional amp stage.

And really, my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro drives headphones like the Sennheiser HD 650 and Sennheiser HD 800S fine just to show what kind of snake oil headphone amplifiers are. We are talking about milliWatts here, that is basically nothing.

That's how all dacs work, not just Dave, so what you're saying is completely irrelevant. It's about how well the low level signal is amplified past that output stage. That's why Chord is selling 15k pre-amps and 100k amps. I've done my testing and drew my own conclusions on both accounts.
You're free to believe what you'd like, but what baffles me is that you actually believe electronics are snake oil and 10k cables are not.

 

[MvRBE10]

Except, this guy is doing an unnecessary double output, introducing an additional output stage which is not needed. It is not like the internal output stage is replaced by that of the external amplifier. If you are using crappy B&W speakers which are a pain to drive, then it makes sense to introduce an additional amp stage.

And really, my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro drives headphones like the Sennheiser HD 650 and Sennheiser HD 800S fine just to show what kind of snake oil headphone amplifiers are. We are talking about milliWatts here, that is basically nothing.

Indeed i put my dave out direct into my monoamp. Tried a pre but that only adds more distortion and coloration. Maybe a 15k cable will up my system instead of my poormans 800,- rca and wave storm cables.