CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[adrianm]

@MarkusBarkus English is not my native, already corrected my message and wrote “idea” instead of “fact”.

The Taiko Extreme sounds better. In my house, that's a fact.

No worries @Ragnar-BY , even native speakers use the term incorrectly

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...yes, my dear. Point being: it's mostly opinion/preference. Perhaps "" was required for proper ironic effect. I thought "in my house" was sufficient. Oh well.

BTW: I would never poke fun or exploit any poster's language. Actually, I often agree with @Ragnar-BY and find him to be knowledgeable and sincere, ergo my thumbs-up to his post. Is that a fact? They're so slippery these days...

 

[adrianm]

In case folks have an interest in this, I have about 30k words to say about it a couple years ago (I had the same question going in) (and to stay on topic, this was paired with a DAVE for the listening tests)

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-1-of-5-r907/

(I specifically answered this question in part 2...it is all about balancing memory to cores, so that process isolation to cores isolates memory I/O as well)

As a programmer (not low-level programming, but still) , this sounds like pseudoscience to me for too many reasons to get into. I can believe a lot of things relating to " what makes an impact on sound quality" , but once you tell me 2 servers that are bit perfect streaming to the same endpoint using the same protocols sound different, without any proof/measurements...that's pretty much where I draw the line.
Netflix should definitely put in an order for some of those Taikos to improve their streaming quality.

 

[ray-dude]

I very much respect that (and used to very much feel the same...my server journey started with a Raspberry Pi). The closest I've come to a hypothesis for what is going in I tried to capture in part 1 of the review in the "Digital Audio Optimization Foundations" section. This is all hypothesis, but in my server experiments, there has been a really strong correlation between changes that impact these areas and changes in SQ.

In an effort to keep this on topic, I have found the DAVE to be invaluable in sussing apart these changes on the server side. The detail and imaging (particularly depth) is very revealing with DAVE, and an improved digital pipeline is very easy to hear in my room (at least to my ear). As always, everyone's room and ear and what tickles the happy place in their brain is different, so best to try all these things in your room and figure out what is worthwhile for you.

 

[Cortazar]

-> Ragnar. Could you say more about the servers you have tried with Dave? I have no idea about computer, what do you mean with "I isolated my network transport with optical modules"? The good news seems to be one do not have to spent to much for streamer when you have Dave. How would you spent let us say 3-8 kEuro for a streaming device`s?
Thanks!

 

[Ragnar-BY]

I would never poke fun or exploit any poster's language.

Not a problem if you ask me. I know that my english is far from perfect and have no problem if somebody finds it fun. I believe life is too short not to make fun out of everything we can.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

-> Ragnar. Could you say more about the servers you have tried with Dave? I have no idea about computer, what do you mean with "I isolated my network transport with optical modules"? The good news seems to be one do not have to spent to much for streamer when you have Dave. How would you spent let us say 3-8 kEuro for a streaming device`s?
Thanks!

I've tried two laptops, miniPC and dedicated MacMini. With opticalRendu as an endpoint I've heard no difference between hardware, using Roon on all that computers. With the same opticalRendu as an endpoint, but with different software (LMS) difference was very obvious. After these experiments I gave up on pure servers and continue to try different digital transports.

For isolation from network, I use two Sonore opticalModules. One is connected to my network switch, another to my network transport. Module on the "clean" side is powered with Farad Super3. Idea is that routers, switches and other network gear uses switch-mode PSUs and voltage regulators, so it's good to isolate all that unnecessary electric noise from your music system. A must have thing in my opinion.

As for recommendations... Well, I can honestly recommend to try Rockna Wavedream NET. I'm using it with my Holo May via i2s and it improved Holo's sound significantly. With HMS or DAVE you'll be limited to coaxial or AES/EBU and I have no idea how it will sound through that interface. In case of USB I'd probably go with two-box Innuos solution (any server + Phoenix) for Roon, or with newest Aurender N200 if you don't need Roon. Although, I have to add that after trying i2s I don't want to use USB anymore. I know that using i2s for external interconnects is kinda controversial topic, but I like it better. Maybe it's just subjective preference.

Another option that comes to my mind when I see these over-complicated circuits with many converters, power supplies and other equipment is to buy MSB Premier or Reference DAC instead of DAVE. MSB DACs are expensive, but at least you're spending money on the main component and not on accessories.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Another option that comes to my mind when I see these over-complicated circuits with many converters, power supplies and other equipment is to buy MSB Premier or Reference DAC instead of DAVE. MSB DACs are expensive, but at least you're spending money on the main component and not on accessories.

@Ragnar-BY that is *exactly* why I demo-ed the Premiere and later the Reference dac, which I purchased.

I posted somewhere I thought the Premiere and the Dave with SJ DC4 and Denefrips Gaia was pretty much a draw. The Reference is, IMO, better.

I had reached my limit on deconstructing the Dave to maximize SQ...my level of perceived SQ.

I recognize many have said all that stuff is unnecessary for Dave to sound great. Makes sense. But more is possible.

As you pointed out: all the add-on do become tiresome to some, at some point. Cheers, fella...

 

[Ragnar-BY]

all the add-on do become tiresome to some, at some point

 

[chesebert]

In case folks have an interest in this, I have about 30k words to say about it a couple years ago (I had the same question going in) (and to stay on topic, this was paired with a DAVE for the listening tests)

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...the-taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-part-1-of-5-r907/

(I specifically answered this question in part 2...it is all about balancing memory to cores, so that process isolation to cores isolates memory I/O as well)

I presume Taiko runs on a custom Linux distribution, correct? If yes, then you can get fairly low level and those tweaks would be meaningful.

 

[jlbrach]

Not a problem if you ask me. I know that my english is far from perfect and have no problem if somebody finds it fun. I believe life is too short not to make fun out of everything we can.

yes, but you like a guy not to mess with lol

 

[chesebert]

I presume Taiko runs on a custom Linux distribution, correct? If yes, then you can get fairly low level and those tweaks would be meaningful.

Okay, I just saw the OS screen - its Windows....lol this thing is a piece of fool's gold. You can't possibly access bare metal and will be accessing everything through API. Taiko would have been better off just building a gaming PC with outboard and enclosed USB card with linear power supply. At least in that case you can install HQ player and accelerate DSD conversion with CUDA.

@ray-dude the only thing in a windows machine that actually matters (assuming clean machine with sufficient process power and you use processing lasso (you can also do this manually with task manager) and take care of your processing priority of your media player.. etc normal tweaking stuff) is the USB implementation and connector. Motherboard level USB generally sucks and require external USB reclocker.

@Ragnar-BY I have been preaching for a network-based digital audio paradigm since 2010 when I got my Linn DS. That was a game changer for me and I have stayed with AIO Linn network renderer ever since. Lumin, is fine, even though it was a rip off of Linn's Klimax DS with worse power supply.

 

[sm60]

Duke Ellington’s Jazz Party is warm, big and holographic - soundstage extends forever. This is from the Qobuz 44.1 track. Wow. What are some of your other “test” albums?

Another of my go to jazz albums to test DACs is the wonderful “Full House” by the great jazz guitarist Wes Montgomery. This is a live recording at a jazz club called Tsubo in Berkeley, which is not around any more. This recording was made more than 60 years ago, yet it blows away many modern jazz recordings that sound so wimpy in comparison. Try the first track. If that doesn’t get you out of your listening chair and dancing around your room, I’ll eat my hat! Or you need a better DAC.

Speaking of relatively inexpensive components that punch waaay above their weight, let me add the fantastic Kef Ls50 Meta bookshelf loudspeaker. It’s the best small loudspeaker I’ve heard in 30 years. I combine it with the massive REL G1 Mk2 subwoofers, which are 7 times heavier and larger than the diminutive LS50 Meta. I set the crossover to about 75 Hz (the REL subs have a remote control to tweak the parameters of each sub from your listening chair).

What a fabulous little loudspeaker. Cost me $1600 from Amazon. I’ve heard $16,000 loudspeakers that sound a lot worse than the little LS50. Absolutely sublime midrange without a hint of harshness in the treble. For a stat lover like me, this is high praise. You can play it pretty loud, although I never listen beyond 75-80dB. Audioscience has detailed measurements on the Meta. Textbook frequency response. Only limitation is the high distortion in the bass as you crank it up. But you should obviously use a subwoofer, or better two.

The Full House recording sounds magnificent on the little Meta with wall to wall soundstaging. You can hear the audience clapping almost having a surround sound effect. Needless to say, through the Lampi Pacific, this recording sounds incredible. Through the stock Dave, it sounds very good, except things are a bit scaled down in terms of the dynamics and the width is not as extreme.

 

[chesebert]

Another of my go to jazz albums to test DACs is the wonderful “Full House” by the great jazz guitarist Wes Montgomery. This is a live recording at a jazz club called Tsubo in Berkeley, which is not around any more. This recording was made more than 60 years ago, yet it blows away many modern jazz recordings that sound so wimpy in comparison. Try the first track. If that doesn’t get you out of your listening chair and dancing around your room, I’ll eat my hat! Or you need a better DAC.

Speaking of relatively inexpensive components that punch waaay above their weight, let me add the fantastic Kef Ls50 Meta bookshelf loudspeaker. It’s the best small loudspeaker I’ve heard in 30 years. I combine it with the massive REL G1 Mk2 subwoofers, which are 7 times heavier and larger than the diminutive LS50 Meta. I set the crossover to about 75 Hz (the REL subs have a remote control to tweak the parameters of each sub from your listening chair).

What a fabulous little loudspeaker. Cost me $1600 from Amazon. I’ve heard $16,000 loudspeakers that sound a lot worse than the little LS50. Absolutely sublime midrange without a hint of harshness in the treble. For a stat lover like me, this is high praise. You can play it pretty loud, although I never listen beyond 75-80dB. Audioscience has detailed measurements on the Meta. Textbook frequency response. Only limitation is the high distortion in the bass as you crank it up. But you should obviously use a subwoofer, or better two.

The Full House recording sounds magnificent on the little Meta with wall to wall soundstaging. You can hear the audience clapping almost having a surround sound effect. Needless to say, through the Lampi Pacific, this recording sounds incredible. Through the stock Dave, it sounds very good, except things are a bit scaled down in terms of the dynamics and the width is not as extreme.

Do you run your kef full range with the addition of Rel or you use LPF for Rel?

Nice album again, great tonality, realistic and warm instrument timbre, great bass, great soundstage and space. The artificial stereo separation kind of annoying on headphones. I will throw this on my Harbeth when I get around to speaker listening.

People clapping, whistling and talking are kind of cool and you can sort of judge the distance from the recording

 

[sm60]

Do you run your kef full range with the addition of Rel or you use LPF for Rel?

Nice album again, great tonality, realistic and warm instrument timbre, great bass, great soundstage and space. The artificial stereo separation kind of annoying on headphones. I will throw this on my Harbeth when I get around to speaker listening.

People clapping, whistling and talking are kind of cool and you can sort of judge the distance from the recording

I’m running the LS50s full range right now, with the RELs supporting the bass under 80 Hz. That’s the official REL recommendation. I don’t drive my loudspeakers very hard, so the KEFs are probably not working too hard. Their spec says they can go up to 105dB, but I don’t ever recommend listening at that SPL if you want to preserve your hearing. Anyway I imagine the bass distortion would be severe at that volume.

Yes, unfortunately too many jazz recordings have an artificial separation into hard left and right sound. You get used to it after a while. But with a great DAC, the sound should float over the left and right channels and create a compelling soundstage.

Another of my go to jazz albums, which again has that left right extreme separation is the immortal Bags Meets Trane pairing of jazz legends John Coltrane with Milt Jackson. Don’t listen to the shorter 192 kHz 24 bit version on Qobuz, which omits many of the great tracks. I have a remastered CD version that runs a full 70 minutes and blows away the high Rez Qobuz version. On Stairway to Heaven, when Coltrane’s saxophone enters on the left channel, on a great DAC, it should sound warm and full bodied, floating high above the left loudspeaker and echo all across your listening room. Gives me goose bumps each time I listen to that track. Miles Davis used to complain that Coltrane, once he got going, wouldn’t stop! He loved those long lingering notes, drawing out so much emotion from his saxophone. This recording shows him at the height of his powers and is a very bluesy album. A desert island disc for sure.

I have this in its original mono version on vinyl, as part of a deluxe Atlantic reissue called Coltrane in Mono. As always, for the jazz greats, as well as The Beatles and Bob Dylan and Ella Fitzgerald and Johnny Cash and Elvis Presley etc., mono is the true way to hear them. That’s the true sound they were aiming for. The stereo versions are always poorer sounding and were largely made to sell the newfangled stereo records, often without the artists permission. I don’t think the Beatles ever cared about their stereo releases, and often didn’t even hear them. They really cared about their mono releases. If you want to hear the true dynamics in the Beatles albums, you have to listen to their mono album releases.