CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Mar 18, 2022 at 9:57 AM Post #19,486 of 25,925
While I am waiting for Riviera aic 10 to then seek for THE SERVER that suits the compete system I am very impressed of what I hear with my Abyss Phi direct from Dave. I can hardly believe that a extra amp can noticeably increase the Soundquality that I already have. I have only heard something comparable from sun audio 300B directly with my abyss (the 1 one). The only problem and the reason I sold the amp was the humm that I heard from sun audio.
Anyway I want to try a different server on my system with riviera and only if I hear a clear progress to my Auralic Aries I will be spending my money. On my list are: Antipodes k30,50, DCS bridge, aurender N20, Lumin U1, Grimm MU1. Any other ideas? I am wondering how much improvement do I get from Investment an the high end server.
 
Mar 18, 2022 at 11:29 AM Post #19,488 of 25,925
While I am waiting for Riviera aic 10 to then seek for THE SERVER that suits the compete system I am very impressed of what I hear with my Abyss Phi direct from Dave. I can hardly believe that a extra amp can noticeably increase the Soundquality that I already have. I have only heard something comparable from sun audio 300B directly with my abyss (the 1 one). The only problem and the reason I sold the amp was the humm that I heard from sun audio.
Anyway I want to try a different server on my system with riviera and only if I hear a clear progress to my Auralic Aries I will be spending my money. On my list are: Antipodes k30,50, DCS bridge, aurender N20, Lumin U1, Grimm MU1. Any other ideas? I am wondering how much improvement do I get from Investment an the high end server.
dCS Bridge is discontinued so you would have to buy used unless there are still some new models left in retailers.
 
Mar 18, 2022 at 12:13 PM Post #19,489 of 25,925
Bricasti M5 could be added to that list.
My understanding is that the M5 is a "streamer" as is the Lumin U1. The K30/50, MU1 and N20 are "servers", i.e. that can manage/play local files on internal drives as well as streaming from external systems. In general, each has different detailed functionality, and the spec sheets don't always make it clear what those differences are. So the practicalities of each model need to be considered as well as the SQ. For example, if you don't like Roon, then you may as well drop the MU1 right away.
 
Mar 19, 2022 at 2:19 AM Post #19,491 of 25,925
A few days ago I had the chance to make a home demo of the Aries Cerat Heléne DAC, which I compared to my Chord stack.

20220314_162934-02.jpeg

My current digital front-end is a relatively complex chain where a Sablon Evo USB cable feeds a SRC*DX, which goes 2xBNC to the M Scaler (on battery), which in turn is connected to the DAVE via the OPTO*DX optical decoupler (on batteries) and 2xAudioquest Diamond cables. To add to the madness, I also use the DC*BLOCK units at the DAVE BNC inputs. I built this chain ("mDAVE" hereafter) over the last 4+ years and I consider every complication as additive towards a better sound.

I listen 90% to acoustic music and attend live unplugged performances on a regular basis, so to me 'better means' - subjectively - more 'natural'.

I started the comparison with the Heléne by using my trusted vintage Spendor LS3/5A, then I moved to headphones, which remain my most relevant configuration in terms of head-time.

The mDAVE and Heléne are very different sounding DACs: while being very good at everything they actually excel at complementary things.

Where the mDAVE truly shines is - to my ears - at producing holographic, transparent soundscapes, with tactile localization and flawless musical images separation. The other strongest area of performance is timing and flow: the rythmic drive is precise and propulsive, engaging and effortless.

The Heléne more impressive features are - on the other hand - tonal density, weight and timbre realism. Especially in the lower midrange / upper bass region.

Imaging is more diffuse with the Aries Cerat, it fills the room with larger / deeper sonic boundaries. mDAVE, on the other hand, has superior clarity and microdetails.

Take as an example The Ballad of Bill Hubbard, from R. Waters' Amused to Death.

This is an audiophile treat, and a great track to show off your high-end 2-channel rig to your friends if you so desire.

The infamous dog bark at the beginning of the track is more apparently even behind your shoulder (LOL) with the DAVE, and the subsequent atmosphere of special effects which creates an immersive 360° 3D bubble all around you is truly magical with the Chord stack. However, when the electric guitar plucks kick in (1:07''), the wave of warmth, the amber timbre from the Heléne are moving. When the big feline roars at 2:19'', DAVE makes you think to your cat, while the Heléne displays a puma.


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Piano has a richer tonal palette and a more satisfying dynamics and resonant structure via the Heléne, with a more realistic decay. The lightfooted pace from the mDAVE wins in terms of percussive attack speed, and complex passages articulation readability, but I would give piano experience to the Heléne overall.

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The same goes with strings. I listened to several quartets, solo violin / cello tracks and chamber music pieces, and the Heléne gave consistently the impression of a more accurate reproduction of the timbre, the feeling of the gut strings you clearly get in the real world was more obvious, whereas the mDAVE presented a certain metallic character which felt comparatively a bit out of place.

1647502096627.png

Instrument separation and 3D layering was instead superior with the mDAVE. You can identify in space each musician in an almost spooky way.

All in all, if I had to choose based on my 2-channel listening session, in my system, the Heléne would be overall my preference, to the point that I was actually considering to buy it on the spot. The authority and boldness it provided to my LS3/5a was unheard of in my room.

Then I moved to headphones.

Here the comparison ended pretty quickly: the mDAVE crossfeed, of which I am totally fond to the point of a true addiction, was dearly missing when I tried the Heléne.

I find many albums unlistenable without crossfeed now, and the mDAVE capability to do crossfeed right (i.e. with minimal loss of transparency) is alone worth having this DAC for headphones.

The Waters album mentioned above showed some decent level of 3D magic with the mDAVE and crossfeed (although much, much less enjoyable than the 2ch experience), which was totally lost with the Heléne and no crossfeed. I tried Roon crossfeed and I was only partially successful (maybe I should experiment more with it, but it does not look so promising).

With album requiring no crossfeed, and more specifically with binaural recordings, I definitely preferred the Heléne in combination to the AB-1266, whereas with the Valkyria the Heléne provided a bit too much of a good thing, ending up to an overly thick, mid-centric tonal balance.

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Back to sheer technicalities, the bass control of the Abyss from the mDAVE was immaculate, with a clean, extended, tight presentation, whereas the Heléne was more on the voluptuous side.

Very crowded orchestral passages were easier to follow with the mDAVE, more like a wall-of-sound with the Helene.

Vocals are way more incarnated with the Heléne , but the very minute details about breathing, lips / mouth movements are best rendered by the mDAVE.

The spacious, holographic character of the mDAVE, its ability to present details in a natural manner, and the peerless implementation of the crossfeed make it very hard to beat as an holistic headphones listening machine indeed.

So for now I let the Heléne go back to the dealer, not without a touch of sadness.
Great write up. I have a similar setup, though fed by a Sonore OpticalRendu. I was surprised when you mentioned the DAVE lacking “the feeling of the gut strings” on the Podger recording (which I know well). In my system, I do believe I hear this (though haven’t heard the Helene).

Wonder if the PhoenixUSB in my chain might be helping on this front? You might want to audition it…
 
Mar 19, 2022 at 10:03 AM Post #19,492 of 25,925
DAVE fellow users, I am curious about how do you feel about its crossfeed function. For me this feature sets the DAVE apart for headphone usage.

Please cast your votes and leave some comments >> here << if you like :wink:
 
Mar 19, 2022 at 10:07 AM Post #19,493 of 25,925
DAVE fellow users, I am curious about how do you feel about its crossfeed function. For me this feature sets the DAVE apart for headphone usage.

Please cast your votes and leave some comments >> here << if you like :wink:
Non-negotiable Susvara + Dave setup:
Src-dx + sorbothanes
HF ON
Crossfeed 1
Line conditioner

Hard to appreciate susvara if one is missing because it's a combo to bring out the bass extension and the missing mid-bass. Also fixes the upper-mids and highs.

Stealth sounds good with the crossfeed on . LCD4 seems to have some timing issues but it's more about the resonance going on inside the pad and it affects coherence but still good.
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 4:29 AM Post #19,494 of 25,925
A few days ago I had the chance to make a home demo of the Aries Cerat Heléne DAC, which I compared to my Chord stack.

My current digital front-end is a relatively complex chain where a Sablon Evo USB cable feeds a SRC*DX, which goes 2xBNC to the M Scaler (on battery), which in turn is connected to the DAVE via the OPTO*DX optical decoupler (on batteries) and 2xAudioquest Diamond cables. To add to the madness, I also use the DC*BLOCK units at the DAVE BNC inputs. I built this chain ("mDAVE" hereafter) over the last 4+ years and I consider every complication as additive towards a better sound.​
Thanks for sharing your experience.
When connecting SRC-DX to Mscaler does that bypass Mscaler? If so, were you using PGGB to do "off line" upscaling?
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 5:05 AM Post #19,495 of 25,925
Thanks for sharing your experience.
When connecting SRC-DX to Mscaler does that bypass Mscaler? If so, were you using PGGB to do "off line" upscaling?

I am still in the experimentation stage with PGGB. I have a bunch of well trusted recordings I have remastered through it during my demo period, that I plan to use for comparison with M-Scaler to decide what to do next.

Currently the SRC-DX feeds the M Scaler via dual BNC in my system. This allows me to use the M Scaler for streaming and easily switch between PGGB and M-Scaler for A/B testing between the two with local files.
However, this is not ideal as the M Scaler is not actually bypassed when I play PGGB'ed files: first, it does perform dithering, and, second, the potential RF phenomena related to the M Scaler + all related additional elements (cables, psu, batteries) being in the chain are still a possibility.

When I have time and my Extreme has settled (I am still in the early hours of usage), I will do a proper testing.

My gripe with PGGB in the context of my system / use case is that it can enjoy it only with local files, while 70-80% of my listening is via Qobuz, and the M Scaler does a great job in this scenario: I am now comparing the following album between local and streaming and the results are so close between the two ... On the other hand it is easy to hear the improvement from the M Scaler.

1647766697413.png


At some point Taiko mentioned that they were working with ZB to implement realtime PGGB for streaming in their XDMS playback software, but I am afraid that project did not go ahead.
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 7:54 AM Post #19,496 of 25,925
I am still in the experimentation stage with PGGB. I have a bunch of well trusted recordings I have remastered through it during my demo period, that I plan to use for comparison with M-Scaler to decide what to do next.

Currently the SRC-DX feeds the M Scaler via dual BNC in my system. This allows me to use the M Scaler for streaming and easily switch between PGGB and M-Scaler for A/B testing between the two with local files.
However, this is not ideal as the M Scaler is not actually bypassed when I play PGGB'ed files: first, it does perform dithering, and, second, the potential RF phenomena related to the M Scaler + all related additional elements (cables, psu, batteries) being in the chain are still a possibility.

When I have time and my Extreme has settled (I am still in the early hours of usage), I will do a proper testing.

My gripe with PGGB in the context of my system / use case is that it can enjoy it only with local files, while 70-80% of my listening is via Qobuz, and the M Scaler does a great job in this scenario: I am now comparing the following album between local and streaming and the results are so close between the two ... On the other hand it is easy to hear the improvement from the M Scaler.

1647766697413.png

At some point Taiko mentioned that they were working with ZB to implement realtime PGGB for streaming in their XDMS playback software, but I am afraid that project did not go ahead.
Worth giving hqplayer a go.
Especially if you have roon. Much easier for real-time stuff
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 8:27 AM Post #19,497 of 25,925
For those who use opto dx and src dx along with mscaler and dave. What is your config like?
1. Do you use src dx into opto dx into m scaler and m scaler bnc connection to dave?
2. Do you use src dx into mscaler and m scaler into opto dx to dave?

I wonder in such a scenario if option 1 or 2 would provide greater sonic benefit?
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 8:59 AM Post #19,498 of 25,925
Worth giving hqplayer a go.
Especially if you have roon. Much easier for real-time stuff
I did for about 2 months, I was really looking for a reason to get rid of the M-scaler, I liked the LNS-15 noise shaper, but none of the filters were even close to the M-scaler's . In the end, I prefer solo Dave when travelling with it as opposed to Hqplayer. Is there any combination in particular you liked with Dave?
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 9:05 AM Post #19,499 of 25,925
I did for about 2 months, I was really looking for a reason to get rid of the M-scaler, I liked the LNS-15 noise shaper, but none of the filters were even close to the M-scaler's . In the end, I prefer solo Dave when travelling with it as opposed to Hqplayer. Is there any combination in particular you liked with Dave?
Sinc-L is closest to the mscaler in design.
Sinc-Mx is my personal favourite filter and in many aspects objectively the best.

Also when using the DAVE be sure to set 'DAC bits to 18. You get a better result that way. Setting it to 24 the work of the noise shaper is wasted.
 
Mar 20, 2022 at 9:20 AM Post #19,500 of 25,925
For those of you pondering on the bnc cables between m scaler and DAVE I can certainly recommend the wave storm bnc cables.

I recently purchased a pair and the result is a definite step up in the quality of fine detail. Whereas before the detail was kind of there it sounded a bit edgy. Now the treble has greater detail and it is very smooth and sounds real.
 

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