[801evan]

I have Hugo 2 as well

Have you tried Hugo TT2? To my ears, the HP out of TT2 is much better than Dave and Hugo 2 in driving Susvara. (I use TT2 and Dave with M-Scaler, but Hugo 2 without it).

Ive tried the Hugo tt2 (laptop + USB) in-store. It was having clipping issues at the start too but after a few months later they added a line conditioner and it sounded much better. The Hugo 2 and Dave at my place sounds better due to better cables, transport and using spdif in. All 3 DACs are capable of driving the Susvara. Larger variables would be transport, signal chain, power and cable quality vs the delta across the 3 DACs.

 

[adrianm]

M-Scaler>TT2>Sus

I've auditioned this and i have no idea why people like the Sus so much. Not for long though, but I found LCD-5 out of M-scaled Dave much better.

 

[Drewligarchy]

Susvara and stealth is great on it and they are hard to drive.

I would disagree strongly on the Susvara. Obviously it's all subjective, but the Susvara is orders of magnitude harder to drive than most headphones. I don't think you need speaker amps, as many others prefer, but the Susvara sounds like a different headphone coming out of more powerful amps than the Dave direct. I don't even think I have enough volume with the Dave.

Don't get me wrong, the Dave is an excellent DAC paired with the Susvara, the headphone output, IMO, just doesn't have anywhere near the drive to do it justice.

 

[Drewligarchy]

I just got my Dave tonight, and I don't think ive read anyone else complain about this, changing the volume with the remote is excruciating. you press the volume up or down buttons, and the volume changes immediately, but the light on the remote keeps flashing and you can't press it again until its done, so you can only change 1db every like 2-3 seconds. Is this the case with everyones units?

I don't remember this. Buy a universal learning remote, and copy the Dave controls to it. I use a universal remote with all my audio gear - including Dave - and it doesn't have this problem. You can get something $50 - $200 depending on how complicated you want it, but I was using a one-4-all remote (actually the one that came with the v281) for many years and it was a pleasure. Now I use a Universal URC RF-50, and it's out of production, but still available on amazon. It's a great and very flexible remote - and you can program all your devices into it.

 

[Drewligarchy]

I've auditioned this and i have no idea why people like the Sus so much. Not for long though, but I found LCD-5 out of M-scaled Dave much better.

That's what I thought too until I tried the enleum amp 23r. It is a really amp dependent headphone. It might be my favorite headphone now.

 

[801evan]

I would disagree strongly on the Susvara. Obviously it's all subjective, but the Susvara is orders of magnitude harder to drive than the stealth. I don't think you need speaker amps, as many others prefer, but the Susvara sounds like a different headphone coming out of more powerful amps than the Dave direct. I don't even think I have enough volume with the Dave.

Don't get me wrong, the Dave is an excellent DAC paired with the Susvara, the headphone output, IMO, just doesn't have anywhere near the drive to do it justice.

Susvara isn't hard to drive. Only needs 142mw of power. IFI Diablo at low gain being able to power it with good sub-bass is proof in the pudding.

the Susvara is orders of magnitude harder to drive than the stealth.

Just 5dB difference on the Dave.

 

[zen87192]

I've auditioned this and i have no idea why people like the Sus so much. Not for long though, but I found LCD-5 out of M-scaled Dave much better.

Definitely… LCD5’s and Meze Liric‘s are totally awesome recommendations with the DAVE. Fed by a Fiio M17 connected via Coaxial is all one needs for both Home listening and Portable Listening.

 

[Drewligarchy]

Susvara isn't hard to drive. Only needs 142mw of power. IFI Diablo at low gain being able to power it with good sub-bass is proof in the pudding.


Just 5dB difference on the Dave.

I corrected my post as I haven't tried the stealth and was unaware of it's sensitivity (but 5db is a lot). So, maybe it's not a great match for the Dave. I'll let others speak who have heard it.

Still my primary point remains. The headphone output on the Dave doesn't do Susvara justice. It's not merely about volume. If you like it more power to you - I just think you are leaving a tremendous amount of performance with that headphone on the table. I think nearly all that have tried the Susvara on more powerful amps would nearly universally agree. Still it's a subjective hobby, YMMV. I just want to prevent someone from buying a Susvara for their Dave blind - and being forced to buy a big amp.

 

[zen87192]

The Stealth out of the DAVE is pretty good but has a somewhat veiled sound to it compared to the LCD5 and Liric. Obviously, I only talk for what I hear through my own ears…..

 

[adrianm]

That's what I thought too until I tried the enleum amp 23r. It is a really amp dependent headphone. It might be my favorite headphone now.

I know, but if i really wanted to buy an amp for a specific headphone, i'd go electrostatic. I have too many boxes for my tastes as it is. If only Chord would make a Bartok equivalent

 

[801evan]

I corrected my post as I haven't tried the stealth and was unaware of it's sensitivity. Still my primary point remains. The headphone output on the Dave doesn't do Susvara justice. It's not merely about volume. If you like it more power to you - I just think you are leaving a tremendous amount of performance with that headphone on the table.

This has already been covered:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/post-16745341

My chain has been verified by a few people already and they have moved away from speaker amps (and laughed at how they themselves got caught with the hype) and have since preferred the HP out of the Dave, TT2, Hugo 2, pro iDSD. Though I think the pro iDSD guy should be using a pro iCan and drive it with low gain since one needs high gain on the pro iDSD due to lack of volume on unity gain.

Any issues with SQ on the Chord DACs is mostly signal chain and lack of line conditioner/ psu upgrades and has nothing to do with the built in HP amplifier. The good thing with the tt2 is psu upgrades is more accessible, like using the ifi elite 15v, but one would want to cut off the 2.1mm plug and put in a good 2.5mm plug so no adapter will be used.

 

[seaice]

I've auditioned this and i have no idea why people like the Sus so much. Not for long though, but I found LCD-5 out of M-scaled Dave much better.

I have never tried LCD-5 with Dave, so I can not comment about this. (I tried some Audeze models in the past, but not from Dave and never to my satisfaction.)

Actually, M-Scaler>TT2>Sus is really the end for me and I am not motivated to try anything new at all.
Before buying TT2 last year, I had lived a long time with M-Scaler>Dave>Suvara directly or with different amps, but after buying TT2, everything is finally resolved for me. My hunt is over.

Ive tried the Hugo tt2 (laptop + USB) in-store. It was having clipping issues at the start too but after a few months later they added a line conditioner and it sounded much better. The Hugo 2 and Dave at my place sounds better due to better cables, transport and using spdif in. All 3 DACs are capable of driving the Susvara. Larger variables would be transport, signal chain, power and cable quality vs the delta across the 3 DACs.

The in-store trials are very inaccurate for these reasons. My dealer also provided me with a very bad source (laptop) for Dave and the in-store Dave/Susvara experience was unsatisfactory and odd. But everything was quickly clear at home and Dave with Susvara have stayed... There are quite many variables in-store / at home... In the long term, my preferences have been totally satisfied with M-Scaler>TT2>Sus only (in comparison with M-Scaler>Dave>directly/whatever amp>Susvara).

 

[Drewligarchy]

This has already been covered:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/post-16745341

My chain has been verified by a few people already and they have moved away from speaker amps (and laughed at how they themselves got caught with the hype) and have since preferred the HP out of the Dave, TT2, Hugo 2, pro iDSD. Though I think the pro iDSD guy should be using a pro iCan and drive it with low gain since one needs high gain on the pro iDSD due to lack of volume on unity gain.

Any issues with SQ on the Chord DACs is mostly signal chain and lack of line conditioner/ psu upgrades and has nothing to do with the built in HP amplifier. The good thing with the tt2 is psu upgrades is more accessible, like using the ifi elite 15v, but one would want to cut off the 2.1mm plug and put in a good 2.5mm plug so no adapter will be used.

I use an enleum amp 23r for my Susvara. It technically is a speaker amp (25 watts), but has a headphone output that uses all that power. I specifically said I don't think the Susvara needs a speaker amp.

This hobby is mostly subjective. Again, if you like it that's great/ My point was simply this. If you did a poll of people who have the Susvara, Dave, and a more powerful amp if Dave leaves performance on the table vs the amp - 95% would say absolutely. That's an important data point for people considering purchase of a $6,000 msrp headphone.

Your opinion isn't less valid, but it goes against the vast majority of people's preferences. If you are reading these forums looking for advice on headphones and pairings - I think it's unfair to state otherwise as you will mislead people.

At the very least, I would caution someone very highly against buying the Susvara for the Dave direct without demoing it. I have about every tweak for the Dave M Scaler possible (Lumin U1 server, Opto Dx with linear power supplies, Wave cables, PS Audio P12), short of a Sean Jacobs power supply. I haven't listened to that power supply and while I imagine it sounds great, I also imagine it doesn't change things enough when powering the Susvara. If I need to buy a power supply for thousands of dollars just to get it to drive a pair of headphones, even if it is phenomenal, someone may be better served buying an amplifier.

 

[801evan]

The in-store trials are very inaccurate for these reasons.

I totally agree. When I demoed the Dave + Blu, it was so ringy and too much upper mids and treble with some reference KEF. It made a node 2i behind a line conditioner + Tannoy heritage sound much much better and it was a proud experience and tweak with the store that has the node 2i. A few years passed and I had the Dave at home, it was initially underwhelming and reminiscent of my first demo . After a few days, I got my custom silver bnc cable done for the src dx and things improved a lot but I still enjoyed my modded Diablo more. Then I used a heavier duty line conditioner plus added sorbothanes on the src dx and it improved a lot. Then, I realized I can do mqa using mconnect to the zen stream and the Dave became a top tier dac.

So I can understand the very likely possibility and how in most cases the Dave won't make the Susvara sound good, but just like other well-meaning posters, I want to prevent someone from needing to buy a speaker amp or 5k usd amp just because of hype just to drive a HP that only needs 142mw to reach 102dB.

 

[801evan]

Your opinion isn't less valid, but it goes against the vast majority of people's preferences. If you are reading these forums looking for advice on headphones and pairings - I think it's unfair to state otherwise as you will mislead people.

Thanks but that's the thing. Lots of people have been led astray for a long time and ended up thinking of the same recommendation.