[ra990]

For two different source inputs, 1 and 2, I assume.

 

[adrianm]

Does anyone else travel with Dave? Curious how you're transporting it

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

To me this new product characteristic looks like a metal 'milled' product. Others have mentioned new M Scaler. Could well be a new M Scaler minus the Blu MKII CD player?

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/coming-soon

 

[ecwl]

Does anyone else travel with Dave? Curious how you're transporting it

I haven’t “travelled” with Dave but I do bring Dave to my local head-fi meets.
I have used two Peak Design Everyday Messenger bags (13”) as my camera+laptop/iPad bags.
I find that Dave fits perfectly into these bags and I assumed that if there is enough protection for my cameras, there should be enough protection for Dave.

 

[adrianm]

To me this new product characteristic looks like a metal 'milled' product. Others have mentioned new M Scaler. Could well be a new M Scaler minus the Blu MKII CD player?

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/coming-soon

It's most likely Mojo 2

 

[Drewligarchy]

It's most likely Mojo 2

I agree - but it’s fun to wish.

What I’d love from Chord (and would beg them to take my money for) is a cost no object Ted Smith Obsidian style Dave 2 + M Scaler 2 with:

- dual box / sections connected via fiber optic
- larger pulse array on the Dave side
- 4 million tap m scaler
- Dual - DC4 Style, cost no object linear power supplies.
- 25 watt digital stereo / headphone amplifier
- built in Streamer via Ethernet/WiFi; Roon Ready

Imagine it would be quite expensive (at least Rossini level) - but it would expand on Chord’s already ground breaking technology while fully optimizing it - so ideally - it wouldn’t/couldn’t be optimized much further. Furthermore, it would elevate Chord into the level of MSB and DCS where they should be (and we know they are already), create an aspirational product, and I bet it would sell a bunch too.

 

[ecwl]

Obviously, we don’t even know if the new Chord product is going to be a digital product from Rob Watts. But let’s assume it is, I tried to do one of those Apple product rumor style analysis to see what product it’ll likely be.

First, Rob Watts has already said that his new ADC and Power Pulse Array Amplifiers are not ready. So we should assume we are getting a new DAC/upscaler.

Because of the supply chain issues, we should assume that it’s a product that’ll use an existing FPGA that Chord already uses in its DACs/upscaler. Preferably one that they have more stock of but not necessarily. So we are really limited to:
Artix 7 XC7A200T (M-Scaler), XC7A35T (TT2), XC7A15T (Hugo 2/Mojo)
Spartan 6 XC6SLX75 (DAVE)

Theoretically we could get Hugo 3/Mojo 2 but I think Rob Watts has said many times that these products are mostly thermally limited so I can’t really see how that can be overcome without a cheap Artix 8 FPGA.

As a result, we are left with two possibilities, non-mobile DAC vs Upscaler.
With an Upscaler, Rob Watts has already said that he doesn’t see how he can get much more out of 16fs upscaling from the XC7A200T but he has in the past used multiple FPGAs to get more computational power. He also mentioned recently that the algorithm and parameters used for WTA1 filters are more important so it is possible he can tweak those more to get better sound.

With respect to a DAC, he has said he is not working on a DAVE 2. However, he has also said that he can get more sonic improvements from improving the WTA2 filter (and maybe the noise shapers). He has said it was very difficult to filter out the noise generated by the XC7A200T chips so it’s also unlikely that a new DAC would feature that chip or try to improve the WTA1 filter.
With all that’s been said, I can only come up with two logical possible product conclusions:

1. Chord Choral/Ultima Upscaler using 2-4x Artix 7 XC7A200T chips for 16fs upscaling (with new WTA1 algorithm since you can’t increase tap length by much)
2. Chord Choral/Ultima 16fs dual BNC input WTA2 32-element pulse array DAC/headphone amp (that can only be fed by TT2/DAVE/M-Scaler/Blu2) powered by the Artix 7 XC7A35T

My strong suspicion is that it’ll be product #2 because

1. Chord is most likely to have an abundant supply of XC7A35T of all the FPGAs they currently procure
2. DAVE eventually would need to be replaced as it uses a much older FPGA chip
3. It is technically not a DAVE 2 because it is not a standalone DAC, you need to pair an upsampler/existing Chord DAC that can output it’s 16fs upsampling in dual digital BNC with it.
4. You can get better sound from the improved WTA2 algorithm, better noise shaper, increased number of pulse array DAC elements

The main counterpoint of the upcoming product not being a WTA2 DAC is that

1. It’s basically a useless unit unless you already own Blu2/M-Scaler or a TT2/DAVE
2. It’ll also probably become useless if you decide to upgrade to a Power Pulse Array Amplifier in the future (whenever that technology is perfected)

That said I could be way off as I’ve seen people predicting Qutest 2 which I guess is possible with TT2 technology. Or Mojo+Poly in one unit. Although the photos shown so far seem to suggest a Choral line product.

I guess it is also possible that the Asian market told Chord that they want an SACD player so they’ll be releasing an SACD transport with two Artix 7 XC7A200T chips for 16fs upscaling or even just an M-Scaler with an SACD transport.

Anyway, I think sometimes it’s fun to speculate and come up with crazy ideas but until the product is announced at the end of January 2022, it’s all silly talk.

Moreover, this could in the end be a new Chord analog product, say a Chord Choral preamplifier. Hahaha…

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Furthermore, it would elevate Chord into the level of MSB and DCS where they should be (and we know they are already), create an aspirational product...

It can be fun to fantasize about new products, but while I can agree that the Dave can sound better than some other high-end dacs, that is not uniformly true, in my experience.

In its stock form, Dave (to me) is good. Add an MScaler and it's different, maybe better. Bypass the Amanero USB bloat with a Denefrips Gaia, and add a DC4 and now you're talking top-shelf stuff. Amazing imaging, pace and detail, even without upscaling or external software processing.

In my listening efforts, although a bit different in tone and weight, the deconstructed Dave was about par with the MSB Premiere dac, so not worth spending more money, IMO. Although adding a DC4 and Gaia to the chain, you're not far off in cost, even without HMS, which I moved away from.

However, the MSB Reference dac is (to me) preferable. I bought it. It has the detail and imaging I get from the dDave, but significantly more musical weight. But it's a lot of cabbage to advance the ball that far.

Assuming the tech exists in the Chord factory to leap-frog the Dave set-up, it would still be a business, not purely technical, decision to launch an aspirational product, IMO. There are only so many idiots willing to fund that market space.

 

[lovethatsound]

Guys I'm sorry to disappoint you all,but chords new piece of equipment is going to be a chord fridge,just like the xbox one lol,chill out to those chord sounds,happy Xmas peeps

 

[edwardsean]

It can be fun to fantasize about new products, but while I can agree that the Dave can sound better than some other high-end dacs, that is not uniformly true, in my experience.

In its stock form, Dave (to me) is good. Add an MScaler and it's different, maybe better. Bypass the Amanero USB bloat with a Denefrips Gaia, and add a DC4 and now you're talking top-shelf stuff. Amazing imaging, pace and detail, even without upscaling or external software processing.

In my listening efforts, although a bit different in tone and weight, the deconstructed Dave was about par with the MSB Premiere dac, so not worth spending more money, IMO. Although adding a DC4 and Gaia to the chain, you're not far off in cost, even without HMS, which I moved away from.

However, the MSB Reference dac is (to me) preferable. I bought it. It has the detail and imaging I get from the dDave, but significantly more musical weight. But it's a lot of cabbage to advance the ball that far.

Assuming the tech exists in the Chord factory to leap-frog the Dave set-up, it would still be a business, not purely technical, decision to launch an aspirational product, IMO. There are only so many idiots willing to fund that market space.

Your use of the Denafrips Gaia to bypass Dave's USB has always interested me. I wonder if I might test it sometime against my chain: optical USB > Innuos Phoenix > Sablon2020 > SRC-DX > HF-CT2. It would mean losing the dual BNC bandwidth to 768KHz, which I do take advantage of using PGGB. However, I wonder if the decreased upsampling rate might be offset by the simpler chain.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

@edwardsean I used the MScaler with Dave for 6-8 months, including with the Phoenix, which is a very nice piece. I also had the SRC box here and tested dual BNC with and without the MScaler. I also tried PGGB processing before it went public.

For me, I settled on no upsampling sounding best in my current system. It would be a guess whether I am streaming or playing local files. I have an audio dedicated FTTH service now, so only about three feet of copper in the chain.

I am putting the Dave/DC4/Gaia set-up upstairs for a headphone system, although I just yesterday bought a pair of Omega Super Alnico Monitors, which I will drive with Dave in pre mode. I may add back the MScaler to the chain since it hasn't sold here. Lucky me perhaps. Should be fun!

 

[sm60]

It can be fun to fantasize about new products, but while I can agree that the Dave can sound better than some other high-end dacs, that is not uniformly true, in my experience.

In its stock form, Dave (to me) is good. Add an MScaler and it's different, maybe better. Bypass the Amanero USB bloat with a Denefrips Gaia, and add a DC4 and now you're talking top-shelf stuff. Amazing imaging, pace and detail, even without upscaling or external software processing.

In my listening efforts, although a bit different in tone and weight, the deconstructed Dave was about par with the MSB Premiere dac, so not worth spending more money, IMO. Although adding a DC4 and Gaia to the chain, you're not far off in cost, even without HMS, which I moved away from.

However, the MSB Reference dac is (to me) preferable. I bought it. It has the detail and imaging I get from the dDave, but significantly more musical weight. But it's a lot of cabbage to advance the ball that far.

Assuming the tech exists in the Chord factory to leap-frog the Dave set-up, it would still be a business, not purely technical, decision to launch an aspirational product, IMO. There are only so many idiots willing to fund that market space.

As a Labor Day gift to myself, I bought an inexpensive linear tracking Technics turntable for $500 on Audiogon just to see if I wanted to get back into vinyl. Huge mistake! The sheer musicality of this little elegant device shocked me. Well, one thing led to another and now I have got back into vinyl in a serious way. Got a far better turntable and phono stage and a high end cartridge. Almost all my listening these days is vinyl. My Dave and Blu Mk2 give me guilty looks from their now relegated positions on my equipment stands. I’m reminded of the scene from Toy Story.

Bottom line: for listening to music recorded in the 1950s-1970s, from jazz to folk to rock to classical, I find vinyl far more pleasurable sonically than Qobuz streamed bits decoded by M-Scaler/Dave. I’ll continue to use Dave for listening to new high Rez recordings, but that forms a small part of what I like to listen to.

Coltrane, Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzgerald, Ben Webster, Milt Jackson, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Sarah Vaughan, and countless other jazz and popular music recorded in the 1950s-1960s sounds beautiful on vinyl, but excruciatingly bad on digital to my ears. I don’t know why, but I don’t care to. If this is the music you like to listen to, vinyl is it as far as I’m concerned.

Newly recorded classical music is of course only possible to listen to via streaming and Dave, so that’s what I’ll continue to use here.

I find I’m much happier with vinyl back in my house. I have discovered the joys of listening to mono recordings. The Beatles and Bob Dylan hated the horribly made stereo versions of their great albums. Hearing these on mono vinyl makes you understand why. These sound fabulous in original mono, not reprocessed stereo (Dylan’s voice and guitar and harmonica stay together in mono, not arbitrarily separated in fake stereo).

Obviously this is a personal choice. YMMV, as they say!

 

[The Jester]

Some of those early stereo recordings were ridiculous, music in one speaker vocals in the other, almost like they were saying “ See, it really is two different channels”
Using original 50’s and 60’s Vinyl pressings means they were taken from the shiny new analogue master tape, any digital versions had to have been taken from the same master tape that was at least 20 years old if done at the release of CD’s in the mid 80’s,
Also the earlier recordings were probably recorded on hand assembled valve consoles until the pre built consoles came along …

 

[N Quarter]

As a Labor Day gift to myself, I bought an inexpensive linear tracking Technics turntable for $500 on Audiogon just to see if I wanted to get back into vinyl. Huge mistake! The sheer musicality of this little elegant device shocked me. Well, one thing led to another and now I have got back into vinyl in a serious way. Got a far better turntable and phono stage and a high end cartridge.

I did the same thing last year, for context I am 56 years old, so grew up with Vinyl. I purchased a Rega Rp10 with Musical Fidelity Vinyl phonostage. I bought 20 albums within about three months, 5 of which were from the Tone poet collection…it cost me around $800 Canadian dollars for 20 albums. I think I was trying to relive my youth, but it turns out I missed being young and the great times I had back then. Listening to records sounded great, but became a chore, and I felt guilty spending that much money and not using the TT much.
Earlier this year I cut my losses and traded the TT in on other gear, and marked it down as another life lesson learned…an expensive one.
Today I am fully content with streaming, using my IPad to select my next album.
Good luck with your Vinyl journey, it certainly was another fun ride for me, but sadly the ride came to a stop In my case.

 

[Ards]

As a Labor Day gift to myself, I bought an inexpensive linear tracking Technics turntable for $500 on Audiogon just to see if I wanted to get back into vinyl. Huge mistake! The sheer musicality of this little elegant device shocked me. Well, one thing led to another and now I have got back into vinyl in a serious way.

Similar journey over past few years. My digital setup is pretty much redundant these days and used primarily as a way to find music I want to own on vinyl. Playback is 95% vinyl, 5% digital.