[adrianm]

I've read that a lot of the Rendu's people here recommend die within a few years, cheap, sure but they seem kinda like throwaway electronics.
By the time you add a linear psu to a Ultrarendu you can just buy an Aries G1 and save yourself the headaches.
Regardless i'll try to get my hands on either an Aries G1 or an equivalent Innuous.
The Auralic stuff had terrible build quality and the software was slow tbh. Even if there were sound quality gains i'm not sure the user experience downgrade compared to my desktop would be worth it. Not to mention the 2k price.

 

[Malcyg]

I would rejoice if Chord built something like this. Given the history I question if this is something they are interested in doing. However, they have the H2Go, which accomplishes what we're talking about in mobile miniature. Pound for pound, I think it is the best thing out there. Now, if only, if only, Rob Watts would be willing to make a 25 pound version.

I totally agree with you here, and they did. I got my first Chord DAC 7-8 years ago - it was a DSX1000. A great piece that included a DAC, an inbuilt streamer and a pre amp with a high quality analogue volume control. It had inputs for other devices as well as Ethernet and a headphone amp with 1/4” output, so pretty much like a Bartok really. It looked and sounded great imo and remains probably the biggest step up that I have had in my system. I would love them to update this with newer technology and I will have a listen to Bartok when I get chance as I like the form factor.

 

[Malcyg]

I did i just disagree. This streamer stuff is kinda counter intuitive.

I am not talking about streamers at all. I am taking about calling bull crap on things when you have not even tried them out at all. I do not understand that mentality - how can anyone be so certain and dismissive about something that they have never tried? You get a lot of it on forums and it is very frustrating and quite tedious. If I listened to everyone who called bull crap, I’d still be listening to MP3 coz, you know, anything else is just a rip off.

There are people who call bull crap on DAC’s and say that they are all pretty much the same - and I’m not kidding, there are plenty of them, but you have just bought yourself a Dave. I imagine that is because you ignored those kind of people and tried one for yourself and good for you, it is very good indeed and will provide you with a lot of enjoyment.

 

[Christer]

Well i can restate the tests i have made :
Dave from Naim555 with psu (30k streamer) using usb vs Node2i(300 euro streamer) using coax since it had no usb : small difference like you describe,but i can easily attribute that to no galvanic isolation on the coax.
Auralic Vega G1 streaming to itself off Tidal vs my Macbook pro 16 streaming to it via usb .Sounded absolutely identical. You would think sound doesn't get any "purer " than a dac streaming to itself.
Multiple tests on the old dac ,laptop vs desktop and jitterbug-same conclusion.
There's no Innuous dealer here unfortunately, just Auralic. I'll loan an Aries G1 at some point.That should be an obvious difference. My current dealer sells a ton of brands, but not a lot of streamers. Might be a reason for that, don't know.
I'm not on some crusade against streamers, if something can make Dave sound better for a reasonable amount i'm all for it. At the moment they just seem to be over-engineered neutered pcs .
That Taiko extreme streamer is a joke if you ask me. Just because the bom adds up to 10-15k, doesn't mean it's a good product. Even if differences were so cataclysmic.
What i can't wrap my head around is if this streamer companies are so ahead of the curve and claim to fix everyone's dacs, why not make dacs themselves?

Hmm my guess is that if your only source is Tidal streaming that in itself may be a limitation that makes it difficult to hear much of a difference?
Do you have any download or physical disc files to use?

I have very little experience with any of these new streaming platforms. I personally prefer to own my music either on disc or as hi res files.
I have only auditioned Roon streaming a few times,never Tidal, but via very good HIGH END systems.
My own hi res download files via laptop sounded better and more realistic than the Roon streaming version of the same music there and then.
The only Internet streamed music I listen to is via channels like the BBC Radio 3 or other similar sources. But they never sound as good as my download hi res files via the same mbp/Qutest/Mscaler.
PS Enjoy your new Dave it is very good.
But even Dave benefits from an added Mscaler and not so little imho.
Cheers CC

 

[radnor]

I am not talking about streamers at all. I am taking about calling bull crap on things when you have not even tried them out at all. I do not understand that mentality - how can anyone be so certain and dismissive about something that they have never tried? You get a lot of it on forums and it is very frustrating and quite tedious. If I listened to everyone who called bull crap, I’d still be listening to MP3 coz, you know, anything else is just a rip off.

There are people who call bull crap on DAC’s and say that they are all pretty much the same - and I’m not kidding, there are plenty of them, but you have just bought yourself a Dave. I imagine that is because you ignored those kind of people and tried one for yourself and good for you, it is very good indeed and will provide you with a lot of enjoyment.

if you grew up in tech... streamers making a difference in audio quality are VERY counter intuitive... and 99% of engineers I know would immediately dismiss. Maby some network engineers would disagree... for philosophical reasons... but this is obscure to general population...... specifically people getting involved in hiend for the first time... "a 3K$ streamer!!!" they would all scream.

Audio is weird... i tested a DAVE VS A KANN CUBE in a store with utopia and could NOT hear a difference.

I took home a loaner mTT2 and was immediately floored.

I simply do not believe it is possible to test gear outside of a relaxed home environment.

 

[adrianm]

There are people who call bull crap on DAC’s and say that they are all pretty much the same - and I’m not kidding, there are plenty of them, but you have just bought yourself a Dave. I imagine that is because you ignored those kind of people and tried one for yourself and good for you, it is very good indeed and will provide you with a lot of enjoyment.

I've been kicked off threads for arguing with those people, and about power filters making a difference (it was a shock to me as well,but with poorly designed gear like my sony ta it does ) it's quite shocking to some. I'm pretty much done trying to change people's minds. I did test cables and everything else in between. Some are horrible value for money, but do make a difference. With this source stuff i just never noticed a difference. And i do hear differences between cables for example,subtle as they are, so i'm not tone def.
I've been changing up usb vs optical on Dave from the pc. If i were pressed i'd say optical sounds a tiny bit better? But i'm sure i'd fail a blind test miserably.

 

[mbj666]

Hmm my guess is that if your only source is Tidal streaming that in itself may be a limitation that makes it difficult to hear much of a difference?
Do you have any download or physical disc files to use?

I have very little experience with any of these new streaming platforms. I personally prefer to own my music either on disc or as hi res files.
I have only auditioned Roon streaming a few times,never Tidal, but via very good HIGH END systems.
My own hi res download files via laptop sounded better and more realistic than the Roon streaming version of the same music there and then.
The only Internet streamed music I listen to is via channels like the BBC Radio 3 or other similar sources. But they never sound as good as my download hi res files via the same mbp/Qutest/Mscaler.
PS Enjoy your new Dave it is very good.
But even Dave benefits from an added Mscaler and not so little imho.
Cheers CC

Direct hires streaming from a good server sounds much much better in my many experiences and tests than any streaming service, even when optimised the streamer route with lps, ether regen and quality ethernet cables using quobuz. My innuos server beats it for sq comfortably every time.

 

[adrianm]

Direct hires streaming from a good server sounds much much better in my many experiences and tests than any streaming service, even when optimised the streamer route with lps, ether regen and quality ethernet cables using quobuz. My innuos server beats it for sq comfortably every time.

See , this makes more sense to me. Streaming from a local server vs off the internet. Maybe it's the player? Or for example Auralic claim their streamers sound better streaming Tidal directly vs Tidal via Roon on their servers because they have a larger cache and the streamer file is essentially " stored locally ". At least part of it.
Don't own any music unfortunately . Millennials

 

[iDesign]

Or that some kind of electrical noise leaks into the actual music listening with one but less so with the other?

This.

 

[adrianm]

This.

Supposedly that's what the Galvanic isolation for. Plus say the Streamer has a 10k power supply with the best voltage regulation and etc. Dave still uses a run of the mill "medical " power supply and does just fine with it. I suppose it is shielded from the rest of the circuits, but how much EMF/RF can really go through a galvanically isolated usb? Custom power supplies aside as most people aren't using them.

 

[adrianm]

Looking at the Zen Mk 3 i see it has an integrated mains filter. My pc's also plugged into an Isotek Mains filter, seems like a stretch but i'll switch it to a normal socket just for fun.

 

[mbj666]

This.

Agree on this electrical and mechanical noise plays a part I use ceramic pucks under my innuos/components and quadraspire svt bamboo rack aswell as a balanced transformer to help isolate kit from mains. All which made a difference. Plan on demoing niagara 3000 to improve mains feed further. None of what I have mentioned is new/novel but just good setup practices for hifi kit

 

[Arniesb]

Supposedly that's what the Galvanic isolation for. Plus say the Streamer has a 10k power supply with the best voltage regulation and etc. Dave still uses a run of the mill "medical " power supply and does just fine with it. I suppose it is shielded from the rest of the circuits, but how much EMF/RF can really go through a galvanically isolated usb? Custom power supplies aside as most people aren't using them.

LOL yeah right if galvanic isolation would solve noise problem then everyone would use it. Some people some time ago thought that earth is flat too!
Also lets not forget that Noise kills pc's already terrible clock performance.

 

[adrianm]

LOL yeah right if galvanic isolation would solve noise problem then everyone would use it. Some people some time ago thought that earth is flat too!
Also lets not forget that Noise kills pc's already terrible clock performance.

Doesn't everyone use it? it's certainly the buzzword with Auralic Stremers. And what part of what justifies the G2 costing twice the G1. In their minds at least.

 

[JMR77]

I own an aries G1, build quality is up there with other gear of similar prices and the user experience of their app with Tidal is also very good IMO. Sound quality wise I'm also very happy with it. I don't own a Dave (yet) but in my experience some DACs may benefit more than others with a dedicated streamer, Chord dacs may be less source dependent (I won a Mojo and a Hugo 2).

I was hoping that using an Ipad as my Tidal source would sound identical to a dedicated streamer, unfortunately for my wallet that's not what I heard.

For instance I own an AT-HA5050H and and M Scaler and I much prefer to feed the AT directly with Aries G1 and not use the M Scaler in the middle, which makes it sound worse. The M Scaler works great for the Hugo 2 instead.