CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[tunes]

DAVE does not appear to have a fuse, so one less audio tweak to worry about .

Regarding Triode's comments on mains and usb products, if you've made an attempt to read through this thread (and if not then why not?!), you will find all sorts of recommendations, some agreeing with him and some not. You won't really know whose advice works best for you until you try it for yourself - and here I fully agree with Triode's last recommendation:

I would say to listen to your system initially for a few weeks (or even months) before trying anything more than a good basic cable. In any case it might take that length of time to become attuned to the new sound. Then maybe try listening to some alternative USB cables but use your ears to judge them and not the cost or talk of exotic materials.

Excellent advise.

Thanks

 

[astrostar59]

The DAVE has a SMPS which is interesting to me, as most manufacturers shun such device for their inherent noise issues. Hat's off to Rob for getting his to work. His power amps use them as well to great effect I am told, though not heard those yet. My question is, how does he avoid dumping noise down the main and polluting the rest of the system which can happen to a typical SMPS design?

 

[Triode User]

The DAVE has a SMPS which is interesting to me, as most manufacturers shun such device for their inherent noise issues. Hat's off to Rob for getting his to work. His power amps use them as well to great effect I am told, though not heard those yet. My question is, how does he avoid dumping noise down the main and polluting the rest of the system which can happen to a typical SMPS design?

The myth about switched power supplies being noisy is just that, a myth.

Sure, cheap badly designed wallwart ones can give out noise but they are a world away from the supplies in Dave and Blu2.

Search on google for 'switched power supplies myth' and you come up with statements such as, "About 5 years ago, Benchmark stopped putting linear power supplies into our new products, and we replaced them with switching power supplies. We did this because linear supplies are too noisy. Yes, you read that correctly, linear supplies are noisy! A well-designed switching power supply can be much quieter than a linear supply."

 

[tunes]

Have you heard the Supra USB 2 cables. These are very reasonable. A good starter cable to compare others to??

https://www.whathifi.com/supra/usb-20/review

 

[jonstatt]

So both the Blu2 and DAVE forum threads are dominated by discussion on cables.

Considering that Dave re-clocks whatever it receives, we can pretty much remove the concern on jitter whether that be via TOSLINK or USB. Instead the focus for a digital cable should be to limit the transference of RF, EMI etc to Dave (or Blu2). In the case of digital interconnects if the resulting sound is brighter then it isn't a good cable. There is no way in the case of digital transfer to selectively affect treble vs bass from the perspective of the music encoding itself. However, the effects of RF and EMI are generally heard as bright or harsh as they influence the analogue circuitry downstream. Earlier in this thread a USB cable was described as expensive and good because it was brighter. This may be a perfect example of a cable manufacturer charging a lot of money for snake oil and getting away with it.

In my case I tried to get the interlink between an Auralic Aries and Dave to sound the same whether using TOSLINK or USB. Initially with a cheap printer USB cable, it sounded fatiguing and muddy compared to TOSLINK. I don't know why my brain was perceiving the sound as muddy. Using an exotic but cheaper end of exotic USB cables, a Vertere DD one, and a jitterbug, the two sounded pretty much identical (within the realm of confusing myself whether there was still a difference or not). The Vertere DD separates power lines and data lines with individual shielding, so perhaps that's why there is a positive difference vs the printer cable.

There is too much snake oil in this aspect of Audiophilia and I am sorry but there is absolutely no way that a well constructed cable with optimal attributes such as capacitance and impedance should cost thousands. I am happy to support the notion that cables can make a difference for the reasons mentioned but this a problem that can be reasonably solved for a reasonable price.

 

[rayl]

The myth about switched power supplies being noisy is just that, a myth.

Sure, cheap badly designed wallwart ones can give out noise but they are a world away from the supplies in Dave and Blu2.

Search on google for 'switched power supplies myth' and you come up with statements such as, "About 5 years ago, Benchmark stopped putting linear power supplies into our new products, and we replaced them with switching power supplies. We did this because linear supplies are too noisy. Yes, you read that correctly, linear supplies are noisy! A well-designed switching power supply can be much quieter than a linear supply."

Just wanted to throw in thought on linear vs switching --

I personally feel the bigger issue with the performance of switching is when you have a low pf loads, like amplifiers -- and some preamps. Much more so than noise. Switching power supplies are not good at insuring high current availability at AC cycle peaks. I feel the same way about AC regen and where they make the greatest impact.

 

[statfi]

low pf loads, like amplifiers -- and some preamps. Much more so than noise. Switching power supplies are not good at insuring high current availability at AC cycle peaks

I'm lost in space, again...
Does "pf" mean "pico farads"? If so, could explain why they are an issue for switching supplies? If not, what?
"AC cycle peaks" of the music or the mains? Again, I do not understand.

 

[rayl]

I'm lost in space, again...
Does "pf" mean "pico farads"? If so, could explain why they are an issue for switching supplies? If not, what?
"AC cycle peaks" of the music or the mains? Again, I do not understand.

Power factor.... and AC cycle peaks. It has to do with the fact that certain loads, like amplifiers, suck in more amperage at the peaks of the AC cycles as opposed to linearly as the case with a purely resistive load. This puts stress on the power supply and starves the load.

PSAudio actually has a decent tutorial on it on YouTube as it relates to their regen products if you're interested. Search for "psaudio class d power plant". I agree with their thinking on this for the most part.

 

[yakaway]

What are some alternatives that you considered before buying your chord dave and possibly blu MKII?

My consideration is ps audio's directsteam dac and memory player. It has a bridge for roon and tidal. It's upgradeable and they are creating a new bridge, due out next year. Anyone else consider this combo?

I'd be interested to hear yours and why you chose one over the other.

 

[rayl]

What are some alternatives that you considered before buying your chord dave and possibly blu MKII?

My consideration is ps audio's directsteam dac and memory player. It has a bridge for roon and tidal. It's upgradeable and they are creating a new bridge, due out next year. Anyone else consider this combo?

I'd be interested to hear yours and why you chose one over the other.

I came from a DSJ Huron and before that a Brooklyn to the DAVE. I haven't tried RedCloud on the DSJ -- it came out just as I received my DAVE. I was so impressed by the "3D"-ness of DAVE (I know it isn't truly 3D, but an illusion of perception due to better reproduction) that I decided to just offload the DSJ and placed an order for a Blu2. And I know that DSJ is not the same as DSSr, but that's my history.

 

[statfi]

Power factor.... and AC cycle peaks. It has to do with the fact that certain loads, like amplifiers, suck in more amperage at the peaks of the AC cycles as opposed to linearly as the case with a purely resistive load.

Ah! Thanks, and complete, independent agreement on that.

 

[jlbrach]

the DS sr is a hell of a DAC for the price......dave/blu2 is better but should be for 4 times the cost

 

[flyte3333]

The myth about switched power supplies being noisy is just that, a myth.

Sure, cheap badly designed wallwart ones can give out noise but they are a world away from the supplies in Dave and Blu2.

Search on google for 'switched power supplies myth' and you come up with statements such as, "About 5 years ago, Benchmark stopped putting linear power supplies into our new products, and we replaced them with switching power supplies. We did this because linear supplies are too noisy. Yes, you read that correctly, linear supplies are noisy! A well-designed switching power supply can be much quieter than a linear supply."

According to John Swenson who has just made up his own customer testing gear, leakage currents of SMPS's he's tested are typically higher than linear PSU's.

Apparently it has something to do with the "Y" capacitors of SMPS's...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xmo...gen-has-arrived.803111/page-239#post-12883888

In terms of noisier and quieter between linear PSU's and SMPS's, it seems leakage currents seems to be a bigger issue affecting SQ according to some like John S.

I'm not bothered even when I upgrade my Hugo2 to a Dave - because I use it with headphones and Dave's TOSLink input, so the 'loop' is broken.

But one MAY get leakage current 'loops' through the DAC if you connect an SMPS powered amp to it (or via upstream connections).

 

[Christer]

I’m sure you are right. The other makes of USB cables that I mentioned are more expensive but then if you are spending £8k or so on a dac then £500 on a USB cable to obtain better performance doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. It’s also not unreasonable imo for a dedicated artisan producer like Sablon who is striving for perfection with low sales numbers, to charge appropriately for their work. SOTA doesn’t come cheap but I believe Sablon represents good value for money. AQ Diamond and Light Harmonics cost a lot more than Sablon but not better.

Hmm, I fail to see the logic in this type of reasoning.
If I have paid the kind of money you suggest for a product I am of the strong opinion that it should come with suitably high quality cabling in the box.
You don't buy say a high quality mountain bike with sub standard wheels do you?

 

[Triode User]

According to John Swenson who has just made up his own customer testing gear, leakage currents of SMPS's he's tested are typically higher than linear PSU's.

Apparently it has something to do with the "Y" capacitors of SMPS's...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xmo...gen-has-arrived.803111/page-239#post-12883888

In terms of noisier and quieter between linear PSU's and SMPS's, it seems leakage currents seems to be a bigger issue affecting SQ according to some like John S.

I'm not bothered even when I upgrade my Hugo2 to a Dave - because I use it with headphones and Dave's TOSLink input, so the 'loop' is broken.

But one MAY get leakage current 'loops' through the DAC if you connect an SMPS powered amp to it (or via upstream connections).

Well the simple answer is that I don’t know how that relates to Dave’s power supply and really only Rob Watts is in a position to properly comment.