[EVOLVIST]

There is no need to insult other posters, just because they have a different viewpoint to your own.

Is it really insulting to be called a "fanboy?" I'm insulted by this notion. Jk.

I mean, over on the Super Audio Friends forum I was extolling the virtues of the Chord DAVE and many disagreed. So under my name on the forum it now reads "Rob Watt's Fluffer." HA! Some mod did that.

I admit that at first I was taken aback, but then I was like, screw it, these guys are mostly ass holes, anyway. Heh.

 

[miketlse]

Is it really insulting to be called a "fanboy?" I'm insulted by this notion. Jk.

I mean, over on the Super Audio Friends forum I was extolling the virtues of the Chord DAVE and many disagreed. So under my name on the forum it now reads "Rob Watt's Fluffer." HA! Some mod did that.

I admit that at first I was taken aback, but then I was like, screw it, these guys are mostly ass holes, anyway. Heh.

 
The definition of fanboy is:
 
1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not. 
2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like. 
 
I have merely tried to stop the thread being a place to trade insults, but it seems some of you find my action insulting.
Your logic is very confusing to me, but enjoy your evenings.

 

[EVOLVIST]

   
The definition of fanboy is:
 
1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not. 
2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like. 
 
I have merely tried to stop the thread being a place to trade insults, but it seems some of you find my action insulting.
Your logic is very confusing to me, but enjoy your evenings.

I was just kidding. I like France.

 

[Sonic77]

Super Audio Friends=Loserville
​Some people here seem lost, isn't this section called summit-fi, not crybaby-fi.

 
 
Quote:

Is it really insulting to be called a "fanboy?" I'm insulted by this notion. Jk.

I mean, over on the Super Audio Friends forum I was extolling the virtues of the Chord DAVE and many disagreed. So under my name on the forum it now reads "Rob Watt's Fluffer." HA! Some mod did that.

I admit that at first I was taken aback, but then I was like, screw it, these guys are mostly ass holes, anyway. Heh.

 

[EVOLVIST]

On a more serious topic, I asked how many DAVE owners use tube gear after the DAVE to their speakers. I'm curious because, at least on the surface, it would seem that one is adding distortions to the end signal via tubes? The DAVE is highly valued for many reasons, and now we have tight quarters on the stopping and starting of notes, greater timbre accuracy, etc., but now by adding tubes, even and odd order harmonics, it's not quite the same effect, is it? Your THD has certainly increased.

I mean, you guys tell me.

EDIT: I would never suggest that personal taste is a bad thing. I'm merely asking because I'm just getting into speakers, but also playing on the concept that some float around that, "I am a purist; therefore, tubes are no good." Juxtapose that with what somebody recently wrote, and the picture becomes blurry:

"The main problem is that during the recording process itself, even order harmonics are stripped out. Unless the recording was done using tube equipment. Which is why even ‘great’ recordings are more edgy and less emotionally engaging than attending the performance in real life. So, if even order harmonics are stripped out, how do we fix that? Easy, use tube equipment. And the closer you can use tube equipment to your source, the more impact it has."

 

[AndrewOld]

   
 
 
The quote from John Frank is literally above yours. I suspect Chord thinks most are buying the Blu2 for the M Scaler these days, and they've priced the Blu2+ M Scaler accordingly.
 
At the end of the day, of course you can (and should, if you feel strongly about it!) keep your money, but I think it's much more likely that Chord ends up building, for example, a Holly that includes a scaler to get the Hugo2 to 100k taps, which would probably cost around the same as the Hugo, and then keeping the Blu2 to be paired with the Dave. It's not difficult to guess. Blu2 is around the price of the Dave. Poly is around the price of the Mojo. What do you think Holly would cost, and what kind of tech would it have at that price?
 
This looks very much like a product business strategy, with three tiers of products aimed at three different groups of consumers. But what do I know

If it is a strategy, rather than an ill thought-through accident, then it is a poor strategy. My money is on an ill-thought through accident - remember the original Blu2 had no USB input so was not aimed at people who playback from computers at all. Even putting the M Scaler into the Blu2 in the first place might have been a bit impulsive. Rob had developed it in the context of the Davina. The Blu was long due an upgrade, but how could you upgrade a perfectly decent cd mechanism? Ah, thought John Franks, if I pinched the M Scaler from the Davina and stuck it in a cd transport then I would indeed have an upgrade with a twist.  And thus a product was born. At least doing that offered the possibility of recouping some of the development costs of  the Davina - after all Chord have never sold a AtoD so the demand for the Davina must be difficult to gauge. My guess is pretty small. Franks seems to have some irrational quasi-romantic attachment to cds, maybe he just isn't up to speed with computer based playback. But the issue here is the unexpected benefit from the M Scaler. I do think they should have paused for thought, rather than bodged it all together with a cd transport and a USB input. If you read earlier comments it is not only computer playback based DAVE owners that are less than happy with the Blu2, Blu owners are also discontent because their (expensive) transports aren't upgradeable as promised and will not get much on the second hand market. Disappointing customers is not a smart product business strategy imo. 
 
As to the Holly, if it ever exists, not a clue. By analogy with the Blu2 of course, it should have a cd transport built in, or something else people don't use! But the Hugo2 has M Scaler ready inputs so, they must be for something. 

 

[jelt2359]

On another note, I really emphasise with those who were misinformed by their dealers about the upgradability of the Blu. That's the kind of thing that would send me away from a brand forever, just because of the greed of the dealer in doing anything to close a deal. Perhaps it's best for those to talk directly to John and see if he can do them a solid?

 

[Kamil21]

Price for the M Scaler ?

The  price of Blu CD 2 player minus cost of Chord Blu CD player is approx. £1500.00

Add loss of profit for not selling the CD player plus a nice box plus a bit extra as we all want one is the cost..?

Chord are enthusiasts who run a business for profit and I wish them all the best, IMO a nice balance.

I look forward to a Mscaler stand alone product an hope the price is reasonable.

I am pretty sure the cost will reflect a balanced approach.    

Hear, hear. Running a business for profit and managing customer expectations is no easy matter.

If they had not launched Blu2 integrated with M-Scaler and made us wait another year for the standalone scaler, some of us would be much happier.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

[drbobbybones]

On a more serious topic, I asked how many DAVE owners use tube gear after the DAVE to their speakers. I'm curious because, at least on the surface, it would seem that one is adding distortions to the end signal via tubes? The DAVE is highly valued for many reasons, and now we have tight quarters on the stopping and starting of notes, greater timbre accuracy, etc., but now by adding tubes, even and odd order harmonics, it's not quite the same effect, is it? Your THD has certainly increased.

I mean, you guys tell me.

EDIT: I would never suggest that personal taste is a bad thing. I'm merely asking because I'm just getting into speakers, but also playing on the concept that some float around that, "I am a purist; therefore, tubes are no good." Juxtapose that with what somebody recently wrote, and the picture becomes blurry:

"The main problem is that during the recording process itself, even order harmonics are stripped out. Unless the recording was done using tube equipment. Which is why even ‘great’ recordings are more edgy and less emotionally engaging than attending the performance in real life. So, if even order harmonics are stripped out, how do we fix that? Easy, use tube equipment. And the closer you can use tube equipment to your source, the more impact it has."

I use a WA22 after my DAVE to my headphones.  I think it makes every headphone I have sound better than the DAVE alone, but I think the WA22 is a special beast.  Haven't used it with speakers though.

 

[Triode User]

On a more serious topic, I asked how many DAVE owners use tube gear after the DAVE to their speakers. I'm curious because, at least on the surface, it would seem that one is adding distortions to the end signal via tubes? The DAVE is highly valued for many reasons, and now we have tight quarters on the stopping and starting of notes, greater timbre accuracy, etc., but now by adding tubes, even and odd order harmonics, it's not quite the same effect, is it? Your THD has certainly increased.
 

I previously replied to your request about using tube amplifiers. I have heard many solid state amplifiers (many very high end) but none of comes close to my valve amps for giving a sense of space and clarity to the music. All the ones I have heard somehow seem to muddy the music ever so very slightly. I was demonstrating my system to a friend last night, playing music he was familiar with and he was just amazed at being able to hear individual instruments on complex orchestral music that he had never heard before on those recordings.
 
Not all of us have tubes for the so called 'warmth' or 'the tube sound'. Some of us have them because we think they are the best and most accurate reproducers of music.
 

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

I like the use of tubes for helping create a great vocal performance. It fortifies the vocal which gives the vocalist greater confidence on a take. The distortions are pleasant too. They are great for recording lead guitar too as they produce more weight along with pleasing distortion but to my mind that is art. Tubes are very fast which is desirable for hifi and they are musical too. The latter attribute though partly as a result of something only tubes do but is equally it's weakness. Tubes vibrate and no trickery yet invented can suppress it to a point where it is not meaningfully laying its own trace on the original recording. If we were talking of a fine art sketch what tubes do is overlay a thick crayon outline round the subject. The is the result of shimmering tubes. All tubes shimmer, less so when fully boxed but they still shimmer and it affects the sound. In the past that was a desirable trait because it made music smooth when it was far from smooth. Now though this trait is a negative because it hides detail when compared to the best solid state can offer. I no longer use tubes for this reason, though I will admit that tube sound can be both pleasing and addictive. For that reason it comes down to personal taste I think.

 

[PANURUS]

  The quote from John Frank is literally above yours. I suspect Chord thinks most are buying the Blu2 for the M Scaler these days, and they've priced the Blu2+ M Scaler accordingly.
 
At the end of the day, of course you can (and should, if you feel strongly about it!) keep your money, but I think it's much more likely that Chord ends up building, for example, a Holly that includes a scaler to get the Hugo2 to 100k taps, which would probably cost around the same as the Hugo, and then keeping the Blu2 to be paired with the Dave. It's not difficult to guess. Blu2 is around the price of the Dave. Poly is around the price of the Mojo. What do you think Holly would cost, and what kind of tech would it have at that price?
 
This looks very much like a product business strategy, with three tiers of products aimed at three different groups of consumers. But what do I know

 
Chord seems to me to have a much more open mind than: "three different groups of consumers".
 
1. It could be that if Chord was so quick to add the USB in the Blu2, it is because this solution allows to offer more time necessary for the development of the Davina.
And that in the meantime will come out a M-scaler in Chordette format ( if big enough) for use with 2Qute mk2.

2. The fact that the Hugo2 was made M-scaler compatible.
 
3. Currently I can not predict whether the Poly used with the Dave will do worse than the streamer developed for the 2Qute Mk2, the DX1000 and CODE X.
 
4.In addition the design also must met a fourth customer group, that of the HugoTT
 
Thus the needs of wealthy monks are met with Poly,  Chordette Scaler with usb and Dave.
This first step will already be extraordinary.

 

[ismewor]

I previously replied to your request about using tube amplifiers. I have heard many solid state amplifiers (many very high end) but none of comes close to my valve amps for giving a sense of space and clarity to the music. All the ones I have heard somehow seem to muddy the music ever so very slightly. I was demonstrating my system to a friend last night, playing music he was familiar with and he was just amazed at being able to hear individual instruments on complex orchestral music that he had never heard before on those recordings.

Not all of us have tubes for the so called 'warmth' or 'the tube sound'. Some of us have them because we think they are the best and most accurate reproducers of music.

I use tube too. Just not all tube are equal. So if is a well build and correct tube it will sound amaze and should bring more enjoyment on the table.

 

[Deftone]

  Let's not forget the R&D costs, particularly Rob's countless sleepless nights for programming the FPGA code! You can't just take hardware costs into account. Still I think a passably affordable M-Scaler this side of Blu 2 and Davina should be possible. I really hope John will have mercy on us.

 
i agree and i also believe a high percentage of the cost of Blu2 comes from robs uniques hard work from programming and code, just like with headphones and iems the materials cost alone wouldn't justify the higher prices but its the tuning of the drivers is what we really pay for.

 

[Deftone]

Is it really insulting to be called a "fanboy?" I'm insulted by this notion. Jk.

I mean, over on the Super Audio Friends forum I was extolling the virtues of the Chord DAVE and many disagreed. So under my name on the forum it now reads "Rob Watt's Fluffer." HA! Some mod did that.

I admit that at first I was taken aback, but then I was like, screw it, these guys are mostly ass holes, anyway. Heh.

​Does not surprise me, SBAF is a Schiit shrine and 90% of other brands get trashed.