CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Jan 15, 2017 at 4:57 PM Post #6,871 of 25,857
​I am going to be using a Legato usb-spdif asynchronous  converter. It operates at 44.1 kHz only, but that's ok with me, cd's are 44.1 kHz too, it's bnc outputs at true 75 ohm impedance. I know there are other convertors out there.


So if someone gives you a 24/192 studio master you can't play it? CDs are 16/44.1 because they have to be. Masters don't have to be, they are usually much higher resolution, and there are plenty available. Why wouldn't you want to be able to play them?
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 5:03 PM Post #6,872 of 25,857
My music could be stored anywhere on my network; on a PC, a Mac or a NAS. It could come from many places on the Internet. It doesn't make any sense to me to have to connect a pc to a DAVE in order to get music to it. I don't have to connect a PC to a printer in order to get data to print. I'd like my DAVE on my network just like my printer is in my network. And I'd like to play music to my DAVE from anywhere on my network or the Internet just like I can print a pdf to my printer from anywhere on my network or the Internet.

And it is not the case that to get the best sound quality from the Blu2 and DAVE you need CDs. Rob himself uses a USB to spdif converter to connect his laptop to the Blu2. Not exactly elegant. The Cd drive is redundant in this configuration. It doesn't matter to him, because I dare say he knows a bloke at the factory and can get his Blu2 at a good price. But the rest of us would need to find £8k and for some of us that is not so easy.

But a straight MScaler at a reasonable price would do me; I could continue to use my laptop or a third party streamer to drive it until such time as Chord had a decent streamer.
The blu 2 has daul output on it,which will give you the full bandwidth of sound.if you use any other device that dont have daul outputs on it,so say you only have one bnc or usb output on your device you would only get half the bandwidth.How many devices out their have daul outputs on them?i can only think of one company who does that,and it's called Chord electronics:blush:
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 5:10 PM Post #6,873 of 25,857
  ..........
 
Next came up was @jude and I used a 1972 Decca recording of Vaughn Williams Fantasia on a theme by Tomas Tallis. Now this is recorded in London's Wigmore Hall, which has the underground nearby, so you often get to hear the rumble of subway trains.
 
............
 
Rob        

O.T. If it was the Neville Marriner recording you are referring to, I think you'll find it was the Kingsway Hall, not the Wigmore Hall. Kingsway Hall was a favourite venue for Decca recordings because of its fine acoustics for orchestral and choral music but it was unfortunately plagued by rumbling noise from two branches of the Piccadilly line that ran almost directly underneath. Sometimes recording sessions were interrupted to allow the trains to pass before continuing but this was not always practicable. Alas, Kingsway Hall no longer exists. The site is now home to a luxury hotel and only the name lingers on.
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 5:17 PM Post #6,874 of 25,857
From Rob's post, it seems some of the knowledge gained from the Blu 2 and DAVINA projects is possible to apply to DAVE, I'm not sure whether Chord has done it before to other products, but as a current DAVE owner, it would be great if Chord would offer an upgrade program so we can taste the sound that Rob's latest code offers.  
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 5:59 PM Post #6,876 of 25,857
Here are 2 computer audio options for Blu mk2:

1)audiphilleo 1 special edition with uptone Audio ultra cap lps-1 power supply for 1494 usd; lps-1 is more expensive than the audiophilleo pure power which is another power option; either combo gives you pcm to 384 and dsd128(Blu mk2 maxes out at dsd128); additional music player/streamer software required
2)auralic aries with coax out doesn't require usb-spdif conversion but maxes out at 192 for pcm and dsd64; Tidal ready music player/streamer software included; auralic aries with power supply upgrade costs 1599 usd

Either way you're looking at 1500 plus dollars (not counting BNC cables)to add to your £7,995 Blu mk2
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 6:30 PM Post #6,877 of 25,857
Here are 2 computer audio options for Blu mk2:

1)audiphilleo...
2)auralic aries with coax out doesn't require usb-spdif conversion ....

 
Stupid question:
 
Is the COAX SPDIF output (of the ARIES) the same thing than the BNC SPDIF required by the Blu2 ?   No adapter needed ?
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 6:32 PM Post #6,878 of 25,857
Absolutely! Last time I looked it was 2017. Pretty much everything in your home can be connected to your network. Your PC, your printer, your tv, your phone, your lightbulbs, your watch, your cooker. Your music is on your network, or out there on the web. Your DAC should be on your network. USB is just a silly way to get data to a DAC. s/pdif is even sillier. And CD is ludicrous. Chord is very very late to the streaming party, Hope they get the Poly to deliver, and hope it evolves into a viable domestic streamer which of course could be build into the M Scaler. I am much more likely to buy an M Scaler that at least has provision for the addition of a streamer than an M Scaler with a CD player (which I haven't used for more than a decade) or an ADC which I will never use.


Late to the streaming party? Surely you jest, they've had a streamer since 2012 http://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-launches-dsx1000-network-player#d8SDkXIwGl1uGflP.97
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 6:37 PM Post #6,879 of 25,857
Here are 2 computer audio options for Blu mk2:

1)audiphilleo 1 special edition with uptone Audio ultra cap lps-1 power supply for 1494 usd; lps-1 is more expensive than the audiophilleo pure power which is another power option; either combo gives you pcm to 384 and dsd128(Blu mk2 maxes out at dsd128); additional music player/streamer software required
2)auralic aries with coax out doesn't require usb-spdif conversion but maxes out at 192 for pcm and dsd64; Tidal ready music player/streamer software included; auralic aries with power supply upgrade costs 1599 usd

Either way you're looking at 1500 plus dollars (not counting BNC cables)to add to your £7,995 Blu mk2


The audiphilleo may be the way to go for me to play higher rez files.
The aries looks to have a coax rca connection rather then a bnc connection.
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 7:34 PM Post #6,881 of 25,857
  Now that the dust has settled and I have had some time to collect my thoughts on the M scaler, I thought I would post some impressions, based on what people heard at the show.
 
Firstly, some background. I first heard the 512,000 tap WTA filter in late July - and was pretty much knocked out by the changes in performance, so then started work on the full M scaler, which I got to listen too in late November. The final version, once all the audibly changing bugs was fixed, was last Christmas eve. So we are talking about very recent developments.
 
Now part of the difficulties about designing is appreciating the scale of what one achieves. Its easy to say this improvement has this effect in SQ and sometimes it easy to get tunnel vision and to exaggerate how significant a change actually represents, and I am very aware of these dangers; ones own natural enthusiasm can let one get carried away. But assessing scale of changes is vitally important - just to give you an example, it took 3 months to code verify and test the M scaler - and this is based upon merely modifying from 512,000 to the full 1M taps. So you are making decisions that will have important SQ consequences based upon previous listening tests, so balancing the importance of different tests is crucial. I always find it amusing when a audio companies blurb talks about no compromise this or that; design is always about balancing resources to get the best performance you can; compromise, fine tuning or balancing is essential part of the process. So getting a sense of scale based on listening tests is absolutely crucial, as I need to be able to accurately predict at the design stage what a decision will mean. But appreciating how much of a difference actually represents is difficult - for example, when listening to depth, it often just resolves down to A being deeper than B. But what of listening test conducted 2 years ago where C was deeper than D? How can you relate A improvement to the C improvement? This is where getting a perspective on the scale of a change is really important - and it becomes crucial when designing lower cost devices such as Mojo, where you are limited by cost and resources and important compromises have to be made.
 
So whenever I get to do a listening test, appreciating the scale of the change is vital, as the results will get logged into my mind and used maybe in design decisions 5 years hence. Now with the M scaler I was already knocked out by the change - I knew that increasing tap length would sound better, but I had not expected it to be transformational - and my listening tests and actually using it to enjoy music was telling me this. Because it was so big, I doubted my own opinion, and wanted others to hear it and get their feedback, so I can get a more accurate measure on the scale of the changes. I had been talking to @romaz during the process, and I was deliberately being neutral about the change and my intense excitement, so that when he heard it at CES I would get a unbiased view.
 
Now trying to asses scale is important, but you need to be aware that listening in strange surroundings, with unfamiliar gear reduces ones sensitivity, so listening at home will give a much more profound and accurate view. It's one reason why we tend not to do AB tests at trade only shows, as the dealers and press will get to grips with it in their own homes soon enough.
 
So Romaz (Roy) was only the second audiophile to hear the M scaler properly - and you can read for yourselves his impressions. And doing the AB was amazing - you could immediately hear the effects of plugging the M scaler in - and absolutely everything improved. So much so that after 1 minute Roy declared "I gotta get one of those."
 
Next came up was @jude and I used a 1972 Decca recording of Vaughn Williams Fantasia on a theme by Tomas Tallis. Now this is recorded in London's Wigmore Hall, which has the underground nearby, so you often get to hear the rumble of subway trains. Now when the M scaler was switched on, you could hear a collective gasp by all those present - the rumble sounded completely different - before it was this vague noise - now you actually perceive the pitch of the rumble. Frankly, it was really weird. Next we noticed small ticks and noises from the musicians, and these little disturbances were really clear and precisely located in space.
 
So I was now getting pretty excited, and was demoing the differences whenever I could. The reaction was universal - everything changes, and it isn't small. Two people commented that the size (scale) of the change was bigger than Hugo to Dave (not sure about that but I can't disagree as it could be). One guy jokingly said I had distorted the direct feed - and I know what he meant by that, but the direct feed is bit perfect. So what changes? The first thing you notice is just clarity - everything is so much clearer and more transparent. Timbre variations are much better, together with pitch reproduction of bass notes. Rhythm's are much easier to follow, and instrument inner detail is easier to hear. Instrument separation and focus is much better, and its much easier to follow rapid variations. Now all of these are expected; they are the usual stuff from improving timing of transients accuracy. But what is also better is depth perception, which is usually nothing to do with timing but small signal amplitude linearity. Now this is better because I have done some more things than simply improve the tap length. One of the curious things was switching on the HF filter with Dave - with 44.1 it should not sound better - and this immediately told me that I needed to improve the WTA filter stop-band performance, and this was done by increasing the bit depth on the quantised coefficients. This worked; now M scaler sounds better with the HF filter off (exactly as it should do). But one unexpected benefit to this has been better depth perception.
 
Regrets? Yes - I should have trusted my gut reaction, that the M scaler was a profound musical and SQ change, even though my intellect was telling me it's only two and a half bits more accurate. And when launching the M scaler we should have done an AB test to the press at the launch so they can actually appreciate how big the change is. Chord will be doing AB demos of it at the Bristol Hi-Fi show in the UK in February.
 
Rob        

 
Incredible, at this point Rob (using 1million taps)  i assume you are easily hearing details and faults the mastering engineers would not even notice.
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 7:50 PM Post #6,883 of 25,857

   

So you want to go computer or streamer -> USB -> DDC -> SPDIF -> Blu2 -> SPDIF -> DAVE.

 

All this for a DAC, DAVE, which is said and promoted to be practically immune to the source. 

 

 
I have found the DAVE to be immune to bad sources but fully capable of revealing the finer qualities of exceptional sources, especially a low impedance source such as an sMS-200 or microRendu and especially when powered by a low impedance PSU such as my Paul Hynes SR7 or LPS-1.  Having listened and compared tvarious SPDIF sources such as the RedNet, my current USB setup is what sounds best in my system and the difference is notable enough that I am not looking to leave my current USB setup once my Blu Mk 2 arrives.  And so, yes, USB > DDC > SPDIF > Blu2 is the path I will choose to take unless something better comes along.
 
Quote:
 
The audiphilleo may be the way to go for me to play higher rez files.
The aries looks to have a coax rca connection rather then a bnc connection.

 
I have tried the Audiophilleo 1 and 2 with PP and it didn't sound that great with my DAVE (a step down compared to USB direct).
 
Reliable sources who have heard both suggest the following less expensive converter, the Singxer SU-1 (made in China) sounds even better than either of the Audiophilleos, the Mutec MC-3+ USB or the Berkeley Alpha USB and for considerably less money ($400 USD).  It is easily modifiable to be powered by an even better 5V PSU such as an LPS-1 or Paul Hynes.  In fact, a mod that includes the LPS-1 is already in the works and should be available for sale shortly by a U.S. company.  Furthermore, it can handle up to 24/352 PCM and up to DSD256 and has both RCA and BNC out and so this is one converter I am expecting to try.
 
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxersu1black/
 
https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/singxer-su-1-usb-digital-interface-with-xmos-xu208-cpld-dsd256-dop.html
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 8:06 PM Post #6,885 of 25,857
   
Yes the Dave + Blu could possibly mean "perfect sound forever".

rolleyes.gif

Naturally there will be a QMx2 version in 2 years, i.e. 4 million taps per channel (what ever these taps are) and a new next generation What filter.
There is no forever ...ever.
tongue.gif

 

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