CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[TheAttorney]

Ordered!

That was quick!
I was very pleased with my Lush^2 - and it is certainly better than the more expensive Tellurium Q model I previously had, and others have reported it to be significantly better than the original Lush.
But the Sablon 2020 is in a league above - particularly in the way it combines both greater detail AND and a more natural, organic presentation. It's also quite light and flexible for an audiophile cable.

The powered version, which is required for Chord equipment for handshaking etc, has the 5v cable completely separate from the signal cable. Mark reckons that it sounds best at its standard length of 1.2M, so he won't do shorter ones. From memory, it sounded great from cold, but improved further after a week or so.

I think the Lush^2 remains a giant killer at its price point, but the Sablon is also a giant killer at its higher price point (something like £575 + VAT).
The difference is that the Sablon can slay bigger giants!

 

[Triode User]

https://majorhifi.com/chord-hugo-2-filters-explained/

If you read the link above you can see the differences when putting on the HF filter. It doesn’t just 'cut' the highs but it boosts frequencies as well. I know this is also the case for the Dave as I can clearly hear it.

I suspect there is a moderate amount of misinformation in that link regarding the H2 filters. The frequency responses shown imply really quite large deviations and I’m sure I have never seen anything similar published. @Rob Watts if you are twiddling your thumbs in an idle moment perhaps you could click on the link quoted and bring some clarity?

Criticalshot, you say that you know that the Dave HF filter cuts the highs and boosts frequencies as well because you can hear it. Many moons ago Rob said the following about the Dave HF filter, “Just to give you an idea how sensitive RF/HF noise is, I have a HF filter option with Dave. This is a 60 kHz filter, and is used to remove the ADC noise shaper noise from 192k, DXD and 384k recordings.” In other words it is not a ‘tone control’ type of filter and has no boost of frequencies.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

I suspect there is a moderate amount of misinformation in that link regarding the H2 filters. The frequency responses shown imply really quite large deviations and I’m sure I have never seen anything similar published. @Rob Watts if you are twiddling your thumbs in an idle moment perhaps you could click on the link quoted and bring some clarity?

Criticalshot, you say that you know that the Dave HF filter cuts the highs and boosts frequencies as well because you can hear it. Many moons ago Rob said the following about the Dave HF filter, “Just to give you an idea how sensitive RF/HF noise is, I have a HF filter option with Dave. This is a 60 kHz filter, and is used to remove the ADC noise shaper noise from 192k, DXD and 384k recordings.” In other words it is not a ‘tone control’ type of filter and has no boost of frequencies.

They do have measurements and what I hear aligns to those measurements. I made an earlier post that said when I had the TT2 I switched filters more than I listened to music. I listen mostly in two channel and I can hear the differences very easily. I am very cognizant of the mid range and the groove it creates. When I cut the filter off on the Dave I could immediately hear what changed in all the frequencies. My tastes have developed over the last 50 years and my focus is not on hearing the performer blink. I don't argue the specifics; sometimes people just know what they know. Some people say they hear no differences in the filters at all; I never questioned them. I do appreciate the info as the technical data was what I was after.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

That was quick!
I was very pleased with my Lush^2 - and it is certainly better than the more expensive Tellurium Q model I previously had, and others have reported it to be significantly better than the original Lush.
But the Sablon 2020 is in a league above - particularly in the way it combines both greater detail AND and a more natural, organic presentation. It's also quite light and flexible for an audiophile cable.

The powered version, which is required for Chord equipment for handshaking etc, has the 5v cable completely separate from the signal cable. Mark reckons that it sounds best at its standard length of 1.2M, so he won't do shorter ones. From memory, it sounded great from cold, but improved further after a week or so.

I think the Lush^2 remains a giant killer at its price point, but the Sablon is also a giant killer at its higher price point (something like £575 + VAT).
The difference is that the Sablon can slay bigger giants!

I was going to get the Lush 2, but all those permutations would of drove me nuts. Thanks for helping me validate my purchase!

 

[naynay]

Ice Cube and co N.W.A sound like a church choir in comparison.

I have a few of there albums on record from back in the day.

 

[iamoneagain]

They do have measurements and what I hear aligns to those measurements. I made an earlier post that said when I had the TT2 I switched filters more than I listened to music. I listen mostly in two channel and I can hear the differences very easily. I am very cognizant of the mid range and the groove it creates. When I cut the filter off on the Dave I could immediately hear what changed in all the frequencies. My tastes have developed over the last 50 years and my focus is not on hearing the performer blink. I don't argue the specifics; sometimes people just know what they know. Some people say they hear no differences in the filters at all; I never questioned them. I do appreciate the info as the technical data was what I was after.

I find it pretty easy to hear the effect of the HF filter on and off. In a roon forum, someone claimed Rob told him to turn if off when using the mscaler. For me, I prefer it on it even with the mscaler. With Focal Utopia is has more weight and bass with the filter on. I couldn’t even listen to the Utopia on the Hugo 2 without using HF setting. With the Dave, it’s more detailed with it off but just slightly thinner compared to turning it on. I’m sure what headphone you have hooked up and maybe cables might change that.

After I posted this I decided give the off setting more time. Acoustic tracks are sounding better. I’ll try leaving it off for a few days. Also notice it moves the soundstage forward a little bit which sounds better. And for connection I’m using a Chord Cable Company optical into the mscaler.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

I find it pretty easy to hear the effect of the HF filter on and off. In a roon forum, someone claimed Rob told him to turn if off when using the mscaler. For me, I prefer it on it even with the mscaler. With Focal Utopia is has more weight and bass with the filter on. I couldn’t even listen to the Utopia on the Hugo 2 without using HF setting. With the Dave, it’s more detailed with it off but just slightly too thin compared to turning it on. I’m sure what headphone you have hooked up and maybe cables might change that.

I read that in one of your earlier posts. I also read someone say that when the Mscaler is connected the HF Filter doesn’t do anything/bypassed. So you are saying that with the MS on, you can hear the difference between off and on? That is good to hear as that was a concern of mine. I didn't want to have to listen to Dave's Mscaled 'HF off' sound. I would prefer the weightier sound of the 'HF on' Mscaled.

 

[iamoneagain]

I read that in one of your earlier posts. I also read someone say that when the Mscaler is connected the HF Filter doesn’t do anything/bypassed. So you are saying that with the MS on, you can hear the difference between off and on? That is good to hear as that was a concern of mine. I didn't want to have to listen to Dave's Mscaled 'HF off' sound. I would prefer the weightier sound of the 'HF on' Mscaled.

Yes, the filter still has an effect with the mscaler. And until now I haven’t really listened to it off. Perhaps I was so used to it with it on, wasn’t willing to give the off setting a chance. When listening to Tiny Cities by Sun Kil Moon, it sounding better off. The highs are clearer but the mscaler just makes them sparkle and liquidy. Really amazing. And it moves the whole soundstage forward so music is in front of you instead of starting at the sides. This give the illusion of less weight but it might be the better presentation. Seems more natural.

I also don’t ever use the crossfeed feature. I find it changes the sound signature and sometimes gives me an off balanced feeling. Sort of the opposite of why most people turn it on. I grew up on headphones so my brain is tuned for headphone listening.

Edit: Neil Young and Crazy Horse - Everybody Knows This is Nowhere sounds much better with HF filter off. The guitars have that perfect twangy electric guitar sound. With filter on they are too rounded.

 

[F208Frank]

Yes Rob has mentioned HF off when using M scaler with Dave, and HF on when using solo Dave.

Sometimes all the features and settings drives me nuts. I was also the guy who posted that info in Roon because after searching the internet that info was no where to be found.

 

[Rob Watts]

I suspect there is a moderate amount of misinformation in that link regarding the H2 filters. The frequency responses shown imply really quite large deviations and I’m sure I have never seen anything similar published. @Rob Watts if you are twiddling your thumbs in an idle moment perhaps you could click on the link quoted and bring some clarity?

Criticalshot, you say that you know that the Dave HF filter cuts the highs and boosts frequencies as well because you can hear it. Many moons ago Rob said the following about the Dave HF filter, “Just to give you an idea how sensitive RF/HF noise is, I have a HF filter option with Dave. This is a 60 kHz filter, and is used to remove the ADC noise shaper noise from 192k, DXD and 384k recordings.” In other words it is not a ‘tone control’ type of filter and has no boost of frequencies.

Yes ignore those freq response plots in the link. Using sine waves, there is zero measured difference from the 16FS WTA filter (orange) to the 256FS filter (white). There is a measurable effect on freq response with Hugo 2 HF filter (white to green) as it is about -1dB down at 20kHz. But this is not the reason for it sounding warmer as I have been listening to a new HF filter that is flat at 20kHz - and this sounds the same, but it is just flat in the audio bandwidth. So the warmer sound is down to reduction of out of band noise and less noise floor modulation in the DAC, not the -1dB at 20kHz.

 

[Triode User]

@Rob Watts Thanks, I thought those plots couldn't be anywhere near being right.

 

[Currawong]

The problem with those plots it, the author didn't explain either what he measured or how he measured it. That's a major red flag for any graphs online.

 

[Amberlamps]

I have a few of there albums on record from back in the day.

Word!

 

[iamoneagain]

Rob, can you confirm that having the HF filter set to off while using the mscaler is the best option?

I know it probably comes down to preference in the end but just from a technical standpoint.

 

[musickid]

It's important to remember that without the 5V on the usb the galvanic isolation on chord dacs and mscaler is not powered.