CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[ecwl]

The Dave has a setting by which one can select between DSD or PCM in the settings. Some say there is an appreciable difference when selecting the correct one for the format.

"The M Scaler will not upscale DSD sources natively. All DSD data will be converted to PCM before being upscaled. DSD64 will be converted to 192K PCM and then upscaled to the desired amount by using the OP SR button. DSD128 will be converted to 384k PCM and then upscaled to the desired sample rate using the OP SR button. DSD256 will be converted to 768k PCM and will not be upscaled."

Does the Blu do the same thing to DSD? If so, have you listened to DSD on the solo Dave with both (PCM/DSD) settings and what could you hear?

Blu2 does the same thing as M-Scaler to DSD source files. However, while it is truly with solo DAVE, playing DSD mode is superior in DSD mode to PCM mode, when you play DSD music through M-Scaler, even though the music is downconverted to 705.4kHz PCM and fed to DAVE, the sound of M-Scaler + DAVE is superior with DSD files is definitely superior to playing the same file in DSD mode straight through the DAVE (without M-Scaler/Blu2). This is because the M-Scaler DSD to PCM conversion is far superior to the DAVE DSD to PCM conversion and to the DAVE DSD mode direct upconversion.

Keep in mind too, this whole concept that some DACs play DSD natively to me is a complete lie. First, since most DSD files are DSD64, most “DSD” DACs at least upsample the DSD64 signal to DSD256 or DSD512. Moreover, they often use a shift register which in itself is a filter of sorts and they use multiple elements so it’s not true that you’re getting a 1-element DSD64 native playback in almost all DACs that are out there. Finally, if a DAC truly plays back DSD64 natively, you’re going to get an analog filter which would affect the sound significantly to filter out the high frequency noise inherent in native DSD64 signal and the analog filter performance is generally quite poor and variable from DAC to DAC. So there is nothing magical or native about DSD playback. Unless you’re going to go back to the old SACD players from decades ago which actually don’t sound that great by modern standards due to more jitter, lack of filtering (shift register/multi-element), etc.

 

[iDesign]

Even in mode four the screen needlessly illuminates momentarily whenever it receives a signal or the sample rate changes. I agree with Amberlamps that there should be a fifth mode to deactivate the display entirely.

The Dave has a setting by which one can select between DSD or PCM in the settings. Some say there is an appreciable difference when selecting the correct one for the format.

"The M Scaler will not upscale DSD sources natively. All DSD data will be converted to PCM before being upscaled. DSD64 will be converted to 192K PCM and then upscaled to the desired amount by using the OP SR button. DSD128 will be converted to 384k PCM and then upscaled to the desired sample rate using the OP SR button. DSD256 will be converted to 768k PCM and will not be upscaled."

Does the Blu do the same thing to DSD? If so, have you listened to DSD on the solo Dave with both (PCM/DSD) settings and what could you hear?

Yes the Blu Mk II does the same as @ecwl explains in his excellent post. When I first purchased my DAVE I did some listening tests with DSD recordings but that was very long ago. I would estimate less than 1% of the albums in my collection of about 60k physical CDs are DSD or SACD. I’m afraid I rarely listen to albums in DSD format and don’t have strong convictions about the sound.

 

[Triode User]

I guess I don't look at the screen that much so for me it isn't a big deal.

 

[Amberlamps]

The 'Display 4' setting on Dave automatically turns Dave's screen off after a short delay.

Ahk, I read on here not that long ago, that the display on dave was always on.

Anyway, I still wish I could turn my balls off.

 

[F208Frank]

I guess I don't look at the screen that much so for me it isn't a big deal.

Would you be able to live with solo Dave without m scaler after having it in your chain prior?

Serious question.

I got both m scaler and dave at same time so I never had solo Dave by itself for too long.

 

[audio_1]

Ahk, I read on here not that long ago, that the display on dave was always on.

Anyway, I still wish I could turn my balls off.

I like the way Dave is programmed so that on display setting 4, the display automatically turns on for a few seconds when it receives a remote command or button press. It allows one to see the volume level or source when they are being changed. Unfortunately the mute button doesn't switch on the display when Dave is muted or un-muted. Multiple button presses are required if Dave is silent to discover if it is muted or the playback source has been paused.

 

[Uncle Monty]

If the MScaler converts DSD to PCM, should the DAVE then be set to 'PCM plus' when connected to an MScaler?

 

[miketlse]

I've decided to keep the mscaler/tt2. the mscaler adds sparkle and energy to the music. without it the muisc doesn't grip me as much. i can't let go off it. now i can look for some top grade headphones too.

I know i may be paddling against the flow, but here goes.
I have the impression for a long time, that half of you says get DAVE, and half says no.
I just want you to make the right long term decision - and i fear that keeping mscaler/tt2 may not satisfy you for more than a few months.
Then we will be back to you posting 'what shall I do'?
In reality this is a minor issue compared to the grief people are experiencing with Covid, but I sincerely wish that you could find your true long term solution.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

If the MScaler converts DSD to PCM, should the DAVE then be set to 'PCM plus' when connected to an MScaler?

The PCM and DSD settings have a different filter for each, which is best for the appropriate format. Since the Scaler converts DSD to PCM; PCM is the setting to chose.

"I didn't really mention DSD, as it was OK, but it was also obvious that this DAC was optimized for PCM performance. That is true even if it features separate filters for DSD playback. One can read in article titled Chord Electronics DAC technology notes in association with Rob Watts, available on Chords Electronics' site that company highly values DSD format. But they also consider PCM DXD format as the one offering best sound quality. With dCS Rossini DSD files offered better performance and so they did with Mytek DACs. DAVE on the other hand is a remarkable DAC for PCM files, offering (via USB input) a higher quality performance than almost any other device I'd listened before. Only some top CD and SACD Players were able to provide even high quality sound. And, to be perfectly honest, I can't even be perfectly sure that it is true…"

 

[Uncle Monty]

The PCM and DSD settings have a different filter for each, which is best for the appropriate format. Since the Scaler converts DSD to PCM; PCM is the setting to chose.

Thanks - that's what I thought.

Got a bit confused because my server is set to DSD, though I think I can change this in its settings somewhere - do you think I should change its output to PCM or just let the MScaler do the converting?

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Thanks - that's what I thought.

Got a bit confused because my server is set to DSD, though I think I can change this in its settings somewhere - do you think I should change its output to PCM or just let the MScaler do the converting?

I would 100% change it if possible. What server is it so I can help?

 

[Uncle Monty]

Antipodes cx/ex running Roon

USB to MS

I've changed the EX to 'PCM' but it shouldn't really matter as the 'DSD' setting still outputs PCM files as is anyway - only difference is any DSD files will be converted by the EX and not the MS.

*Edit - I set it to 'none' (there's no 'PCM' setting as such) - "If your DAC supports DSD select DoP. Otherwize select none and Roon Server will transcode DSD to PCM."

Someone should start an online degree course in understanding your stereo...it used to be just putting a needle in a groove..

**Edit 2 - following ECWL's advice, have now set EX/Roon to DoP...I remember when the only option I had was the volume control..

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

Dave here I come! The Mscaler is listed for sale and the TT2 will be listed tomorrow. The Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic DAC is also up for sale, but is now connected in the mean time. That damn fancy Dave Stand is also calling my name but it's pricey! Who has the stand?
https://aquahifi.com/file/datasheet/LaScala_Optologic_datasheet_EN.pdf

 

[iDesign]

Dave here I come! The Mscaler is listed for sale and the TT2 will be listed tomorrow. The Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic DAC is also up for sale, but is now connected in the mean time. That damn fancy Dave Stand is also calling my name but it's pricey! Who has the stand?
https://aquahifi.com/file/datasheet/LaScala_Optologic_datasheet_EN.pdf

The stands are a cosmetic accessory and were not specifically designed to isolate vibrations (hence why Chord makes no mention of it on their website). Some Head-Fi members with custom cables stated they could not use the headphone input with the optional short legs. Others pointed out the rear inputs of the DAVE were much more prone to stress/strain when using heavy cables since the rear i/o are raised and angled from the surface. I feel Chord’s pricing for the Ensemble stands is too high and they should have looked at other designs or manufacturing options. It would at least be nice if they were a standard size and could be used with future Chord products.

Note the tight clearance between the headphone cable relative to the surface.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

The stands are a cosmetic accessory and were not specifically designed to isolate vibrations (hence why Chord makes no mention of it on their website). Some Head-Fi members with custom cables stated they could not use the headphone input with the optional short legs. I feel Chord’s pricing for the Ensemble stands is too high and they should have looked at other designs or manufacturing options. It would at least be nice if they were a standard size and could be used with future Chord products.

Note the tight clearance between the headphone cable relative to the surface.

You made a good point. I can see that people could have issues with clearance but it sure is purty.