CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[musickid]

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[musickid]

Aha but we can stop the cables from touching the floor. Enter Peter Holley's Classic Indian Cable Lifts. They speak volumes but can they move me emotionally i wonder like chord dacs too.

 

[Thenewguy007]

I also can't understand how external isolators can help with internal vibrations when mains electricity is 50/60hz, those vibrations can't be stopped no matter how hard one tries. I could be wrong though.

Specific designed footer drain the vibrations from the chassis/transformers & transfer them to the rack.

 

[TheAttorney]

My next step was to get a polished 12x6" ceramic tile from Home Depot. I put this polished side down on the 3 roller balls, and the DAVE on top of that. This took the effect next level still (the underside of the DAVE is rough, so the polished tile floats better on the roller balls).

So many answers leading to so many questions...

Would not a mirror tile be even more polished than any ceramic tile from a DIY store?

Did you keep the original stock rubber feet between DAVE and tile?
If so, shouldn't the Black Ravioli footers peform better than stock? Your report suggests not.

I'm trying to visualize how stable the end result is....
If you have perfectly polished surfaces and roller balls, then even the slightest push to DAVE will send it flying back until it falls off the roller balls?
If so, the only thing providing any lateral stability at all would be the incoming cables.
And presumably, the stiffer the cables the greater the stability, but also the lesser the anti-vibration effect?

 

[rkt31]

There is a reason condenser mics are detached from stands and suspended. This is enough of hint why any hard point to point contact won't help in isolation of Dave or any equipment. If at all you could place Dave on very soft silicon air filled bubbles. So imho soft rubber feets are next best thing after these bubbles.

 

[musickid]

what about the choral stand where dave is raised from the ground. chord emphasise it's high quality as one that goes beyond the aesthetics. maybe a chord dave isolation thread is in order.

 

[TheAttorney]

......This is enough of hint why any hard point to point contact won't help in isolation of Dave or any equipment.

The objective of many audiophile footers is to drain away the component's own vibrations into the hifi rack - and then stop that vibration being reflected back into the component.
And that typically requires hard, often pointy, materilals.

The combination of footers/damping plates and hifi racks needs to simultaneously handle several sources of vibration:

- Caused by the component itself (e.g. its mains transformer)
- Other components on the shelf or rack
- Airborne vibration (e.g. caused by loudspeakers)
- AC Mains power
- seismic vibration from earth, the building etc

This can be done with various combinations of hard and soft materials, and my own expirments have shown that it's hard to predict what will and won't work in a particular circumstance.

Back to your microphone example: The reason why studio engineers may avoid microphone direct contact with mirophone stands is that a typical pro stand is probably very poor at handling the above various types of vibration. My guess is that a typical aluminium stand is particularly good at transmitting floor vibrations into the microphone.
No doubt an audiphile designed stand would fair better - maybe one that can move about on roller balls
-

 

[ray-dude]

So many answers leading to so many questions...

Would not a mirror tile be even more polished than any ceramic tile from a DIY store?

Did you keep the original stock rubber feet between DAVE and tile?
If so, shouldn't the Black Ravioli footers peform better than stock? Your report suggests not.

I'm trying to visualize how stable the end result is....
If you have perfectly polished surfaces and roller balls, then even the slightest push to DAVE will send it flying back until it falls off the roller balls?
If so, the only thing providing any lateral stability at all would be the incoming cables.
And presumably, the stiffer the cables the greater the stability, but also the lesser the anti-vibration effect?

good questions councilor. Remember that the ball bearing that the platform sits on sits in a polished hardened aluminum bowl. Barry Diament has a 2” diameter indentation in the bowl, Ingress Engineering has a 3” diameter indentation in the bowl, and I settled on 4” and 5” diameter indentations in the bowls. I find 5” fairly stable (as far as things not rolling off) but I wasn’t motivated to go any farther. In sum, the cup of the bowl provides the lateral stability.

I do have my stock rubber feet on my DAVE. I have not removed them to try without. I did try having the BR pads between the platform and the DAVE and preferred the imaging without. BR pads are not thick enough to rest the DAVE directly on them without removing the stock rubber feet (which I don’t want to do).

I’m sure there are lots of options for material for the platform that sit on three ball bearings. Polished ceramic tiles were convenient, not the result of a larger survey. I think any highly polished hard surface would do.

Taking a step back, the stack I have is decoupling vertical isolation from horizontal isolation. The Acoustic Revive and footers on the DAVE are doing vertical isolation, and the hard contact points and bearings are “floating” things horizontally.

With a horizontal (including rotational) resonant frequency of ~1Hz and a dampening time of ~90 seconds, it is pretty well floated In The horizontal plane.

the biggest surprise for me was how much horizontal isolation impacted SQ. That was (and still is) completely unexpected. I also can’t speak to how much is unique to my setup and room, and how much is a general benefit. This one is cheap enough and easy enough to try (once one gets past the “I cant believe I’m doing this” embarrassment that I’m looking forward to hearing what others hear

 

[JaZZ]

It would be interesting to see measurements from acceleration sensors on DAVE and other components which would reveal how much (lateral) vibration there effectively is that has to be dealt with. It must be of low frequency, considering the weight of the components, but it's still not clear to me how clearing the way for the movements can have a positive impact on the concerned electronics and finally sound quality.

I'm not generally doubting your findings, mind you! But I guess I'm just not willing to drive the quest for perfection so far. And after all it's just one field beside many more. I admire your dedication with which you sacrifice your leasure time and share your findings. That's why I called you a second Romaz.

 

[rkt31]

The objective of many audiophile footers is to drain away the component's own vibrations into the hifi rack - and then stop that vibration being reflected back into the component.
And that typically requires hard, often pointy, materilals.

The combination of footers/damping plates and hifi racks needs to simultaneously handle several sources of vibration:

- Caused by the component itself (e.g. its mains transformer)
- Other components on the shelf or rack
- Airborne vibration (e.g. caused by loudspeakers)
- AC Mains power
- seismic vibration from earth, the building etc

This can be done with various combinations of hard and soft materials, and my own expirments have shown that it's hard to predict what will and won't work in a particular circumstance.

Back to your microphone example: The reason why studio engineers may avoid microphone direct contact with mirophone stands is that a typical pro stand is probably very poor at handling the above various types of vibration. My guess is that a typical aluminium stand is particularly good at transmitting floor vibrations into the microphone.
No doubt an audiphile designed stand would fair better - maybe one that can move about on roller balls
-

Imho we are confused whether to use isolation or dissipation for better performance. A rigid connection to other more heavy rigid thing will not dissipate much of energy. You need something with damping properties which absorbs vibration and does not allow to revert it back to device. Imagine if you remove the springs from the shock absorbers. Vibration will not be absorbed much. That's why rubber feet are next best thing after complete isolation like suspension. Even roller balls will only absorb lateral vibration not vertical. Off course there are practical difficulties in suspension. Remember the best turn tables have even floating type platter to avoid any harmful effect of vibrations. Vibration either of unit itself or of outside need to be effectively dampened.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

I have my Dave suspended in a quantum vacuum of .00000014 particles/m^3, which is the best I've been able to achieve with poor quality products I've received from the Russian space program. So I've sent an 7 figure check to the government of Switzerland so that when the CERN accelerator gets its rebuild next year, they will send me some superconducting parts I can use to see if I can improve the quantum vacuum. I've also noticed that on certain recordings, some violins sound a little screechy, which I'm pretty sure has to do with the relativistic effects increase of having the Dave up on a high shelf and further away from the earth's center of gravity. So we will be moving 13,000 feet underground into a cave system beneath a small town in Bolivia to get those relativistic timing problems down a tick or two.

Also, living under 2 miles of rock rock, neutrino interference should be reduced by maybe as much as 2-3%, so it's kind of an awesome 2 birds with one stone thing. We're pretty psyched. Not sure what we'll eat though.

 

[Amberlamps]

I have my Dave suspended in a quantum vacuum of .00000014 particles/m^3, which is the best I've been able to achieve with poor quality products I've received from the Russian space program. So I've sent an 7 figure check to the government of Switzerland so that when the CERN accelerator gets its rebuild next year, they will send me some superconducting parts I can use to see if I can improve the quantum vacuum. I've also noticed that on certain recordings, some violins sound a little screechy, which I'm pretty sure has to do with the relativistic effects increase of having the Dave up on a high shelf and further away from the earth's center of gravity. So we will be moving 13,000 feet underground into a cave system beneath a small town in Bolivia to get those relativistic timing problems down a tick or two.

Also, living under 2 miles of rock rock, neutrino interference should be reduced by maybe as much as 2-3%, so it's kind of an awesome 2 birds with one stone thing. We're pretty psyched. Not sure what we'll eat though.

I've got my TT2 in a tokamak at the jet lab in england.

It did nothing but vaporise my TT2.

I knew I should of bought a silver TT2 instead of a black one.

 

[miketlse]

I've got my TT2 in a tokamak at the jet lab in england.

It did nothing but vaporise my TT2.

I knew I should of bought a silver TT2 instead of a black one.

I told you not to let Robs secret out of the bag.
Now everyone has seen those rows of TT3 used as tiles, on the central pillar of the torus.

 

[Amberlamps]

I told you not to let Robs secret out of the bag.
Now everyone has seen those rows of TT3 used as tiles, on the central pillar of the torus.

The TT3's on the right are playing a 705.6 khz track hence the purple light.

 

[miketlse]

The TT3's on the right are playing a 705.6 khz track hence the purple light.

No doubt someone will complain that the 256MScalers, that line the outer walls, glow and run hot now that they have been radiation hardened.