CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Crgreen]

When you say 500 million taps, do you half a million?

 

[analogmusic]

Hi Romaz
 
what is the sound of a million taps into Dave??
 
Also wanted to ask if other Dave owners felt that Dave improved over time? Any run in?
 
I know Chord say every Dave is identical, but mine sounds more musical today, after a month....
 
Maybe my imagination?
 
Could also be my Dynaudio speakers as I got them a few months ago, but they need hundreds of hours of running in time.

 

[Kamil21]

In case anybody here missed this, it's a comprehensive discussion of Blu Mk2 by Rob Watts.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/800264/watts-up/165#post_13150760

 

[lovethatsound]

I spent a good part of yesterday in the Chord room at CES. It was a wonderful several hours spent with Rob and John with enlightening conversation and, of course, listening to DAVE with Blu Mk2. I will be back in the Chord room today to give Hugo 2 and Poly a listen. Obviously, these are exciting times for Chord and for many of us.

As I've already previously posted, the SPDIF/BNC input on Blu 2 is run through the M-scaler and so 1 million TAPS is not just limited to CD playback.

As I've also previously posted, the next Chord component to incorporate the M-scaler will be Davina. This will be both ADC and DDC and will have the same digital inputs as DAVE. The PCB for Davina will be completed in a few days and from there, testing will ensue. Rob isn't sure when it will be ready, maybe by summer but ultimately, "it will be ready when it's ready." Is there a reason to wait for Davina if all you are interested in is the M-scaler? According to Rob, not really. Even if you prefer a USB source (as I do), you could use a USB to SPDIF converter. While the Audiophilleo converter I recently tried didn't sound as good to my ears as USB direct to DAVE, Rob believes this difference will disappear with the SPDIF input on Blu as the signal will be completely regenerated by his M-scaler before it is passed off to DAVE.

As for those of us who no longer spin CDs (like myself) but who really want the benefits of a million TAPS and the vastly improved WTA filters Rob has come up with, then consider the CD transport as a free bonus because Blu 2 and Davina are expected to cost the same. If you feel you might benefit from the ADC in Davina and insist on having multiple digital inputs, then wait for Davina. If the appeal of spinning CDs is there for you (even occasionally), then there's no reason to wait as the M-scaler implementation in Blu 2 will be equivalent to Davina.

To answer the questions posed by some, will there be an upgrade path for original Blu owners? Unfortunately, no. Should original Blu owners consider the upgrade even if you don't own a DAVE? If SQ is your goal, absolutely, yes!

Can you combine Blu 2 with a Mojo, Hugo 2 or even a non-Chord dac like a Schiit Yggy or MSB Select II and will the M-scaler benefit those DACs? Yes, you can and yes, it will. The M-scaler will effectively bring those DACs up to 500 million TAPS but according to Rob, those 500 million TAPS still won't sound as good as the same 500 million TAPS on DAVE because of a certain synergy that will exist between Blu 2/Davina and DAVE and of course, with DAVE, it will be 1 million TAPS.

Will 1 million TAPS benefit 16/44 more than high-res files? According to Rob, more TAPS will benefit all resolutions equally.

As far as power consumption, yes, the M-scaler requires 10 amps but at 1 volt and so it only consumes 10 watts. Nonetheless, a 10A supply in the DAVE would be very polluting and so there was never a consideration to incorporate the M-scaler and DAVE in the same chassis.

Are there plans to incorporate M-scaler + built-in streamer? Not at this time.

Can the new Poly be used on the DAVE? Rob had nothing to do with the design of Poly but he looked at this possibility for the first time yesterday and it would appear that the Poly can be accommodated for the DAVE very easily.

Could Poly be looked at as being similar to a battery operated microRendu? Yes. The functionality and feature set will be similar. Poly is expected to receive Roon certification shortly.

As for SQ improvements, I will preface my initial comments by saying that when Hugo first came out, I was impressed by it but not overly enamored by it. When DAVE came out, I thought the SQ difference was enormous. The ratio of TAPS from Hugo to DAVE is about the same as DAVE to the M-scaler which is about 6:1 and so I was expecting roughly the same jump in SQ. Rob allowed me the privilege of directly comparing CD playback without the M-scaler vs CD playback at 500 million TAPS and finally at 1 million TAPS. I will provide more in-depth comments at a later time but the SQ difference is instantly evident from the standpoint of depth and clarity using both headphones (LCD-4) and speakers. While 500 million TAPS sounded very very good, 1 million TAPS was just simply that much more amazing. There was not this sense of diminishing return and the leap from DAVE to a full million TAPS is more impressive to my ears than the leap I recall hearing from Hugo to DAVE. I have never before found the DAVE to sound "pedestrian" before when compared against any DAC but compared to DAVE + M-scaler, it does. I have placed my order for a Blu 2.

Thanks romaz for keeping us all in the picture,it sounds like your having a great time there(I'm jealous lol)As for the original blu not being able to upgraded to the blu 2 will be a big disappointment for blu owners,who were told by their dealers when getting the Dave,that it would able to be upgraded.Very Naughty Chord.Anyway romaz,have a great time☺

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

I've no idea how many studios (if any) use a DAVE, but it strikes me that if they haven't talready invested in one, they're unlikely to do so because of the new CD transport. Of course, in the absence of any concrete evidence, all such matters are taking place in our imaginations.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that Recording Studios have been asking for Davina based upon their assessment of Dave tech. It was they who suggested A Chord ADC rather than Chord touting the idea

 

[7ryder]

Is the Klimax a balanced preamp? I've found that as a general rule, balanced tends to work better into a balanced circuit, SE into a SE circuit, but not invariably so. Like everything, it depends on how it's implemented.

I used to have one, in fact an entire Klimax system - DS/1 streamer, Klimax preamp and Klimax monoblocks - and all are balanced. 
 
the question is whether or not he's using the balanced outputs into a balanced amp...if not, then there prolly isn't any benefit using the balanced in/out on the Klimax preamp with DAVE. 

 

[romaz]

I think that there will be many owners of rare records that were never released on CD, who will be interested in the concept of the Davina.

I agree. It will be interesting to see how Davina compares against a top notch phono preamp.

 

[romaz]

When you say 500 million taps, do you half a million?

Sorry, yes, I meant 500,000.

 

[7ryder]

Abbey Road use Chord products btw

Unless something has recently changed, Abbey Road uses Classe amps with B&W speakers 

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Unless something has recently changed, Abbey Road uses Classe amps with B&W speakers 

I am pretty sure this was mentioned in an interview with Chord, 7ryder. If I have made a mistake I apologise but I am 90% sure I read it last year. May have been Air studios also.

 

[7ryder]

I spent a good part of yesterday in the Chord room at CES. It was a wonderful several hours spent with Rob and John with enlightening conversation and, of course, listening to DAVE with Blu Mk2. I will be back in the Chord room today to give Hugo 2 and Poly a listen. Obviously, these are exciting times for Chord and for many of us.

As I've already previously posted, the SPDIF/BNC input on Blu 2 is run through the M-scaler and so 1 million TAPS is not just limited to CD playback.

As I've also previously posted, the next Chord component to incorporate the M-scaler will be Davina. This will be both ADC and DDC and will have the same digital inputs as DAVE. The PCB for Davina will be completed in a few days and from there, testing will ensue. Rob isn't sure when it will be ready, maybe by summer but ultimately, "it will be ready when it's ready." Is there a reason to wait for Davina if all you are interested in is the M-scaler? According to Rob, not really. Even if you prefer a USB source (as I do), you could use a USB to SPDIF converter. While the Audiophilleo converter I recently tried didn't sound as good to my ears as USB direct to DAVE, Rob believes this difference will disappear with the SPDIF input on Blu as the signal will be completely regenerated by his M-scaler before it is passed off to DAVE.

As for those of us who no longer spin CDs (like myself) but who really want the benefits of a million TAPS and the vastly improved WTA filters Rob has come up with, then consider the CD transport as a free bonus because Blu 2 and Davina are expected to cost the same. If you feel you might benefit from the ADC in Davina and insist on having multiple digital inputs, then wait for Davina. If the appeal of spinning CDs is there for you (even occasionally), then there's no reason to wait as the M-scaler implementation in Blu 2 will be equivalent to Davina.

To answer the questions posed by some, will there be an upgrade path for original Blu owners? Unfortunately, no. Should original Blu owners consider the upgrade even if you don't own a DAVE? If SQ is your goal, absolutely, yes!

Can you combine Blu 2 with a Mojo, Hugo 2 or even a non-Chord dac like a Schiit Yggy or MSB Select II and will the M-scaler benefit those DACs? Yes, you can and yes, it will. The M-scaler will effectively bring those DACs up to 500 million TAPS but according to Rob, those 500 million TAPS still won't sound as good as the same 500 million TAPS on DAVE because of a certain synergy that will exist between Blu 2/Davina and DAVE and of course, with DAVE, it will be 1 million TAPS.

Will 1 million TAPS benefit 16/44 more than high-res files? According to Rob, more TAPS will benefit all resolutions equally. Rob was also quick to point out that it's not just about the number of TAPS but how those TAPS are used and he believes with his new filters, these TAPS are being used more effectively and to greater musicality than ever before.

As far as power consumption, yes, the M-scaler requires 10 amps but at 1 volt and so it only consumes 10 watts. Nonetheless, a 10A supply in the DAVE would be very polluting and so there was never a consideration to incorporate the M-scaler and DAVE in the same chassis.

Are there plans to incorporate M-scaler + built-in streamer? Not at this time.

Can the new Poly be used on the DAVE? Rob had nothing to do with the design of Poly but he looked at this possibility for the first time yesterday and it would appear that the Poly can be accommodated for the DAVE very easily.

Could Poly be looked at as being similar to a battery operated microRendu? Yes. The functionality and feature set will be similar. Poly also has the advantage of incorporating wifi. Poly is expected to receive Roon certification shortly.

As for SQ improvements, I will preface my initial comments by saying that when Hugo first came out, I was impressed by it but not overly enamored by it. When DAVE came out, I thought the SQ difference was enormous. The ratio of TAPS from Hugo to DAVE is about the same as DAVE to the M-scaler which is about 6:1 and so I was expecting roughly the same jump in SQ. Rob allowed me the privilege of directly comparing CD playback without the M-scaler vs CD playback at 500 million TAPS and finally at 1 million TAPS. I will provide more in-depth comments at a later time but the SQ difference is instantly evident from the standpoint of depth and clarity using both headphones (LCD-4) and speakers. While 500 million TAPS sounded very very good, 1 million TAPS was just simply that much more amazing. There was not this sense of diminishing return and the leap from DAVE to a full million TAPS is more impressive to my ears than the leap I recall hearing from Hugo to DAVE. I have never before found the DAVE to sound "pedestrian" when compared against any DAC but compared to DAVE + M-scaler, it does. I have placed my order for a Blu 2.

I'm assuming you have a typo here Roy...last I looked, 500 million is 500 times bigger than 1 million, so if mo' taps means betta sound, 500 would be better! 

 

[7ryder]

I am pretty sure this was mentioned in an interview with Chord, 7ryder. If I have made a mistake I apologise but I am 90% sure I read it last year. May have been Air studios also.

Not entirely sure myself, but as a Classe owner (SSP-800), I knew that to be true at one time.
 
As for Chord, on their website it states that
 

"our first amplifiers were supplied to the BBC, followed by world-leading ​

first amplifiers were supplied to the BBC, followed by world-leading studios including Abbey Road, Sony Music (New York) and later, The Royal Opera House.​

ading studios including Abbey Road, Sony Music (New York) and later, The Royal Opera House".

This implies past tense...and​

 there are news releases that Abbey Road purchased 33 delta amps in the past 5 years or so to use with the B&W speakers. Which makes sense since they are both from the same company.​

 

Chris​

 

[Sonic77]

Laptop,streaming,anything really,that has a digital output on it.Buy the way if you got a blu 2 transport I'm sure you can use any of the above through the blu 2☺

Awsome, thank you for that info.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Unless something has recently changed, Abbey Road uses Classe amps with B&W speakers 

There is mention in the second paragraph here, though I think the article I read was more recent
http://www.stereolifemagazine.com/interviews/item/1165-john-franks-chord-electronics

 

[Mython]

Hands up who reckons at least 50% of Blu sales, during the first 3 months, will be from rival DAC companies desperate to know what difference the M scaler makes to the performance of their own DACs, and to the performance of DAVE vs their own DACs?