CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[organicmac]

  Recently ordered DAVE and hoping to use eventually with new Chord digital power amp when available.
I was wondering could Rob or colleague comment on potential subwoofer use with the new amplifier - I presume a subwoofer connected to DAVE's analogue output would not be suitable?
 
Andrew

 

   
You can run it that way for sure. Or use two power amps (that's why the DX outputs are 4). I guess I will need to have a volume trim function on the amps, when its in DX mode, so one can have differing gains. It won't be difficult to do as master volume is sent digitally, so adding a fixed volume offset is easy.
 
Rob

Many thanks. Is there any pathway envisaged for multi-channel usage with DAVE or other Chord DAC's?

 

[GeneralSensible]

Hi everyone, this will be my first post on this forum. I've read through all 360 or so pages (really!) and now I think it's time for me to ask a question (actually 2 questions).
 
DAVE arrived at his new home yesterday and after some fiddling around with cables and a MACmini I got it to produce it's first sounds. Already cold out of the box it did sound splendid, but right now I will let it run in for a couple of days before I will do some serious listening.
 
I already do have some questions were I think your marvelous forum probably will have the answers to.
 
First the remote. My DAVE came with a completely different remote than the one which is shown in the "user manual". Mine is a little black box, with only a few buttons where in the manual there is a larger silver model with a lot of buttons displayed. Is this normal for the newer DAVEs or what's the matter? Thing is that for instance I can not change phase with the remote, which isn't very nice because you best change this setting while sitting in the sweet spot. Is something broken or does this remote also suffer from the remote-problems which are already mentioned in this thread?
 
Second question I have is about polarity. Here in Europe we use so-called CEE 7/4 or CEE7/7 Schuko AC powerplug, Schuko sockets are unpolarised, there is no way of differentiating between the two live contacts, so the plug can be used in two ways (you can turn them upside-down). With some equipment it is necessary to do a polarity check for the best sound. I was wondering if DAVE is sensitive about polarity and if so, what is the best way to connect the device?  In other words, which pin to use for live and which one for zero?
 
Thanks for your answers.
Peter.

 

[Hubert H]

My black Dave on an old Choral rack with the sides removed. It's switch on, select music and forget about the electronics (sorry about the iPhone photo, it exagerates the displays somewhat);
 

 

[Ashrunner]

 
You wouldn't need to pay UK VAT but you still need to pay import tax for the US no?

Yeah, but the import tax on $8100 of stereo equipment is only about $350. I guarantee you that folks are already importing and reselling given the pound/dollar delta that currently exists.

 

[GryphonGuy]

Which version do you guys think looks best, the black or the silver version?

 
Mine is black. It fits with the rest of my hi-fi gear. Black is beautiful as they say.
 
GG

 

[Rob Watts]

  Hi everyone, this will be my first post on this forum. I've read through all 360 or so pages (really!) and now I think it's time for me to ask a question (actually 2 questions).
 
DAVE arrived at his new home yesterday and after some fiddling around with cables and a MACmini I got it to produce it's first sounds. Already cold out of the box it did sound splendid, but right now I will let it run in for a couple of days before I will do some serious listening.
 
I already do have some questions were I think your marvelous forum probably will have the answers to.
 
First the remote. My DAVE came with a completely different remote than the one which is shown in the "user manual". Mine is a little black box, with only a few buttons where in the manual there is a larger silver model with a lot of buttons displayed. Is this normal for the newer DAVEs or what's the matter? Thing is that for instance I can not change phase with the remote, which isn't very nice because you best change this setting while sitting in the sweet spot. Is something broken or does this remote also suffer from the remote-problems which are already mentioned in this thread?
 
Second question I have is about polarity. Here in Europe we use so-called CEE 7/4 or CEE7/7 Schuko AC powerplug, Schuko sockets are unpolarised, there is no way of differentiating between the two live contacts, so the plug can be used in two ways (you can turn them upside-down). With some equipment it is necessary to do a polarity check for the best sound. I was wondering if DAVE is sensitive about polarity and if so, what is the best way to connect the device?  In other words, which pin to use for live and which one for zero?
 
Thanks for your answers.
Peter.

Yes Chord have a new remote, and its functionally identical to the old one. 
 
I suspect that there will be no difference in SQ by switching the Schuko over, as internally its transformer coupled, so there is no hot or cold as far as Dave is concerned. But give it a go, and the warmer sounding one would be the better as that would indicate lower overall RF noise levels. But my guess is it won't make a difference.
 
Rob

 

[analogmusic]

Both Silver and Black look good to me, but I placed an order for the Black Dave as the rest of my existing hi-fi kit is black.
 
Rob Watts can comment more on this, but my Hugo and Mojo sounded great out of the box. Any running in that happened was more of brain running in (adjusting to better timing of transients) than anything else. 

 

[x RELIC x]

Both Silver and Black look good to me, but I placed an order for the Black Dave as the rest of my existing hi-fi kit is black.

Rob Watts can comment more on this, but my Hugo and Mojo sounded great out of the box. Any running in that happened was more of brain running in (adjusting to better timing of transients) than anything else. 

He already has a few times. Here are some of his relevant posts from older to newer:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/3090#post_12600875

Spoiler: Warm up time

It was and yet I was making a point. When I designed Dave I never intended it to be transportable, but that is how I have ended up using it.

When traveling, I use Mojo, then when I get into the hotel out comes Dave. Stone cold, within 10 minutes the SQ is up to speed and via headphones then never changes after about 10 minutes. No messing, or trouble, just the simple pleasure of enjoying music....

Rob 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/3360#post_12657755

Spoiler: Rob's thoughts on burn-in

Yes I would be very surprised if Dave did have any significant break in, but brain break in is very real - to me at least.

But break in can be a major hardware issue. In the 1980's my products did suffer from break in, and in the early 90's my DAC's (PDM or DSD DAC's not pulse array) were very variable.

This can be caused by a number of issues:

1. Distortion varying with temperature. The most obvious way is output stage bias currents drifting with temperature, but there are a host of other effects too.

2. Electrolytic capacitors - these have significant break-in with impedance, linearity, and leakage current varying with time - they often need 90 days on to maximise performance.

3. RF noise - this can vary with time too, and in particular can give the effect of ones system varying in SQ over time. In the early 80's my system only sounded at its best at 2AM with the lights out. Once I understood the problems of RF noise and eliminated the issue then SQ got a lot better and it became consistent - it did not matter what time of day, it sounded at its best.

With DAC's there are a host of issues to contend with, and there is a very strong link with consistency of measured performance and SQ. In the early 90's, the DSD DAC's I was making at the time were a nightmare from a consistency point of view. Each one measured a bit differently, each one sounded slightly different. That's why I got into designing my own DAC technology, as the only way of solving these issues was to take control over every element within a DAC and to apply solutions that would eliminate these issues. So for example - normal chip DAC's have a reference voltage pin that you have to decouple with an electrolytic to get low noise. The reference circuitry is built inside the chip, so you can't solve this issue. But if you use a discrete DAC, you can design your own reference circuitry that innately has insignificant noise, so then you do not need an electrolytic to decouple something that is not really good enough in the first place.

I was actually chatting to Matt (production director Chord) about the issue of Dave having such low THD and noise - and the THD and noise at 2.5v RMS OP was -127.3 dB and -127.5 dB for the two DAC's, and every Dave they measure is exactly the same. Moreover, it does not matter if its cold or hot, old or new, with horrible noisy jittery sources, it always measures the same. And each one sounds the same when it goes through their listening tests.

So yes break in can be a very real problem. But when it happens, it supplies a very real opportunity for the designer - if you can find out what the issue is, then you can work on fundamentally to eliminate it - then you end up with even better sound quality, and no break in or inconsistency too.

Rob

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/3525#post_12709179

Spoiler: Rob's pre-production DAVE vs a production unit

I listened to a fresh brand new Dave against my treasured and somewhat beaten up pre-production unit, that has thousands of hours on the clock.

The new unit was a bit brighter than mine; but it was also more transparent - particularly with ambient details - I heard some studio reverb put in on Nora Jones that I have not heard before. It seemed to be more transparent when things were loud - but small details and depth perception were the same on the two units.

My tentative (tentative as relating SQ changes to technical changes one must be very careful) conclusions are twofold:

1. The transparency improvements are because the pre production prototype needed some hand soldering as some changes were needed. Even though I use special high purity silver solder intended for SMD, this is not as good as the production soldering which is done in an inert nitrogen atmosphere, so soldering can't have any oxides (unlike hand soldering). Even leaded components are soldered this way.

2. The difference between the units are much smaller than changes I have heard as I get used to the sound, so brain break-in is way more important than physical break-in. That said, is the brighter presentation due entirely down to the better transparency? I can't be 100% sure about that; for certain when you improve transparency things do sound brighter. And also for sure when you get noise floor modulation and details are artificially enhanced then it will sound brighter too, and give a false impression of transparency. It can sometimes be very tricky to tell the difference and is one of the problems of sound quality tests. But the way I use to differentiate it is to use a busy track, and if it falls apart when the going gets tough it is not true transparency; in this case the new unit was clearer with very difficult material.

That said, I suspect that the new unit will sound slightly smoother with time.

My real problem is how to persuade Chord that I really do need a new black Dave...

 

[Rob Watts]

  Both Silver and Black look good to me, but I placed an order for the Black Dave as the rest of my existing hi-fi kit is black.
 
Rob Watts can comment more on this, but my Hugo and Mojo sounded great out of the box. Any running in that happened was more of brain running in (adjusting to better timing of transients) than anything else. 

 
Yes they do sound - again IMHO - great out of the box. If you are not knocked out on first listen, its either Dave is not to your taste (some like artificial softness, some like hard etched sounds) or your system is flawed.
 
Eight times out of ten, plugging Dave in just sounds glorious - cavernous sound-stage and I say to myself "Dave has entered the building". One time out of ten I need to seriously tweak or change the system to get Dave to sing. But one time in ten it just sounds terribly flat and un-emotional and there is nothing that can be done; Dave isn't magic, it can't cure a fundamentally ill system.
 
Another factor is I get the impression that Dave highlights the differences between headphones much more easily. I guess that is due to Dave being transparent, so having less sound signature means the differences on headphones become much more marked.
 
But by far the biggest variable is stuck between one's ears. I enjoy reading these threads, but sometimes I see a post about gear that I know very well, and simply can't understand the poster's impressions. So try to listen yourself, and follow your own opinion. But remember - its just an opinion, based on that time, with that piece of music, with your current set of tastes, on that particular system - and your impressions maybe wrong. I always constantly redo listening tests, as one can never be 100% certain (actually one can never be 100% certain about anything in life).
 
Rob

 

[x RELIC x]

Yes they do sound - again IMHO - great out of the box. If you are not knocked out on first listen, its either Dave is not to your taste (some like artificial softness, some like hard etched sounds) or your system is flawed.

Eight times out of ten, plugging Dave in just sounds glorious - cavernous sound-stage and I say to myself "Dave has entered the building". One time out of ten I need to seriously tweak or change the system to get Dave to sing. But one time in ten it just sounds terribly flat and un-emotional and there is nothing that can be done; Dave isn't magic, it can't cure a fundamentally ill system.

Another factor is I get the impression that Dave highlights the differences between headphones much more easily. I guess that is due to Dave being transparent, so having less sound signature means the differences on headphones become much more marked.

But by far the biggest variable is stuck between one's ears. I enjoy reading these threads, but sometimes I see a post about gear that I know very well, and simply can't understand the poster's impressions. So try to listen yourself, and follow your own opinion. But remember - its just an opinion, based on that time, with that piece of music, with your current set of tastes, on that particular system - and your impressions maybe wrong. I always constantly redo listening tests, as one can never be 100% certain (actually one can never be 100% certain about anything in life).

Rob

This point that I highlit in bold, Rob, is what actually struck me the most when I first heard the Mojo. Much more so than with anything I'd heard previously. I was really surprised by this. With the DAVE it's similar but slightly more so in regard to depth and soundstage, which isn't too far fetched considering the differences between the Mojo and DAVE.

 

[Rob Watts]

Yes I can see the effect would happen with Mojo too. I guess I have spent much more time with Dave plugging lots of different headphones in!

 

[x RELIC x]

Yes I can see the effect would happen with Mojo too. I guess I have spent much more time with Dave plugging lots of different headphones in!

I could well imagine!

With the DAVE I somewhat expected it compared to the surprise I had when I first heard it with Mojo. Anyway, good points Rob.

 

[AndrewOld]

Any chance someone could post a picture of the new DAVE remote?

 

[Shini44]

Getting DAVE next month, by the end of NOV. wanted to know, do i need to burn in it or something?
 
a lot of DAC and AMP sound better (or the sound opens up) after 150 hours. DAVE is the same or?

 

[x RELIC x]

Getting DAVE next month, by the end of NOV. wanted to know, do i need to burn in it or something?

a lot of DAC and AMP sound better (or the sound opens up) after 150 hours. DAVE is the same or?

Lol, literally read a couple posts up. :rolleyes:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/5400#post_12967515