CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
May 22, 2023 at 7:39 AM Post #24,481 of 25,564
I have this same setup + HMS and WAVE Storm's. To me there is zero need for an amp. Plus above 0 it is LOUD. I just finished listening to the remaster of Pigs on Animals and the middle section bass goes so low my teeth rattle. Many on this thread def have "audio-itis" and can't leave well enough alone. If you've ever owned a major bucks big rig think Shun Mook "Mpingo Disc" or a nice $10,000 power cord (for preamp, DAC, upsampler, two monoblocks). If you want some tube sound get the Feliks Envy. I know a few on the Forum who own these and are quite happy. Also the MSB amp looks promising.

As long as you're happy, that's all that matters. But it's not about volume. The Dave can drive any headphone to audible levels, it's about the quality of amplification. Even for low impedance headphones, there's a clear improvement with a quality headphone amp. I get choosing to not spend money for that difference or being content, but also totally get people wanting to maximize amplification for headphones they've invested $4k in.
 
May 22, 2023 at 11:10 AM Post #24,482 of 25,564
Please excuse both of my posts prior to this because I was in a contrarian mood. I am beyond guilty of audio-itis, I own a Furutech NCF! In truth I would like to try an external amp but literally haven't the space to place it currently. So probably I was in some sort of denial/jealousy/"that's ridiculous!"/no...."that's worth checking out"/wait..."I'm ridiculous" thing.
 
May 25, 2023 at 8:07 AM Post #24,483 of 25,564
Question about DAC Mode/Pre-Amp Mode, line out voltage. I know the answers are here somewhere, and I have tried to find it…but oh there is so much to trawl through!

DAC Mode is fixed -3db…..is this +3v Line Out? I know pre-amp set at -3db gives Exactly same output.

I cannot fully remember what effect the MScaler has on this. I believe it knocks it down a couple of db’s

So that in pre-amp mode you would need to set -1db for the same Line Out voltage of +3v?

I remember somewhere in this thread someone posted a graph? Of the increasing Line Out Voltage, relative to increasing the volume when in
pre-amp mode.

Thanks
 
May 25, 2023 at 8:35 AM Post #24,484 of 25,564
Question about DAC Mode/Pre-Amp Mode, line out voltage. I know the answers are here somewhere, and I have tried to find it…but oh there is so much to trawl through!

DAC Mode is fixed -3db…..is this +3v Line Out? I know pre-amp set at -3db gives Exactly same output.

I cannot fully remember what effect the MScaler has on this. I believe it knocks it down a couple of db’s

So that in pre-amp mode you would need to set -1db for the same Line Out voltage of +3v?

I remember somewhere in this thread someone posted a graph? Of the increasing Line Out Voltage, relative to increasing the volume when in
pre-amp mode.

Thanks
DAVE DAC mode is -3dB which is 3V line out for RCA (6V XLR).
M-Scaler lowers the volume by -2.76dB to ensure the upsampled signal doesn’t clip. So it’s really up to you whether you want to set your DAVE to -1dB or 0dB which would theoretically give you 2.75V or 3.08V respectively.

Of course, if you’re using a preamp, it comes down to whether the preamp is going to clip at exactly 3V or not. My suspicion is that it won’t if you were feeding it 3V pre-M-Scaler without clipping so you can probably get away with setting the DAVE to 0dB. But if you’re not sure or just want to play it safe, then I guess the best setting would be to -1dB.

You made me realize that I wouldn’t be surprised if some people bought the M-Scaler and heard a better sound but in reality, the main improvement they heard is that at 3V, they’re clipping their preamp at times whereas with the M-Scaler’s -2.76dB reduction, they’re feeding their preamp 2.18V so they’re no longer clipping their preamp so they found the sound dramatically better.
 
May 25, 2023 at 8:45 AM Post #24,485 of 25,564
Question about DAC Mode/Pre-Amp Mode, line out voltage. I know the answers are here somewhere, and I have tried to find it…but oh there is so much to trawl through!

DAC Mode is fixed -3db…..is this +3v Line Out? I know pre-amp set at -3db gives Exactly same output.

I cannot fully remember what effect the MScaler has on this. I believe it knocks it down a couple of db’s

So that in pre-amp mode you would need to set -1db for the same Line Out voltage of +3v?

I remember somewhere in this thread someone posted a graph? Of the increasing Line Out Voltage, relative to increasing the volume when in
pre-amp mode.

Thanks
Actually, I looked further and I saw in your other posts that you use Feliks Envy?
According to the specs, Feliks Envy can only handle 1V input. While specs sometimes lies, it is unlikely to be able to handle 3V.
So if you want to be 100% sure you’re not clipping and get optimal sound, you really should set DAVE to -13dB without M-Scaler and -11dB with M-Scaler and use RCA output from DAVE. If you use XLR, you’ll probably have to crank down the DAVE by another -6dB.

I personally think that DAVE should never have had a DAC mode. Or at a very minimum, it should have a 1V DAC mode, 2V DAC mode and 3V DAC mode. There are way too many preamps that clip at 1V and 2V so setting DAVE to DAC mode just gives suboptimal clipping sound.
 
May 25, 2023 at 8:48 AM Post #24,486 of 25,564
DAVE DAC mode is -3dB which is 3V line out for RCA (6V XLR).
M-Scaler lowers the volume by -2.76dB to ensure the upsampled signal doesn’t clip. So it’s really up to you whether you want to set your DAVE to -1dB or 0dB which would theoretically give you 2.75V or 3.08V respectively.

Of course, if you’re using a preamp, it comes down to whether the preamp is going to clip at exactly 3V or not. My suspicion is that it won’t if you were feeding it 3V pre-M-Scaler without clipping so you can probably get away with setting the DAVE to 0dB. But if you’re not sure or just want to play it safe, then I guess the best setting would be to -1dB.

You made me realize that I wouldn’t be surprised if some people bought the M-Scaler and heard a better sound but in reality, the main improvement they heard is that at 3V, they’re clipping their preamp at times whereas with the M-Scaler’s -2.76dB reduction, they’re feeding their preamp 2.18V so they’re no longer clipping their preamp so they found the sound dramatically better.
Thanks. I have a pair of valve Monoblocks arriving next month which are insensitive to line input, but I think DAVE will be fine.
 
May 25, 2023 at 8:52 AM Post #24,487 of 25,564
Actually, I looked further and I saw in your other posts that you use Feliks Envy?
According to the specs, Feliks Envy can only handle 1V input. While specs sometimes lies, it is unlikely to be able to handle 3V.
So if you want to be 100% sure you’re not clipping and get optimal sound, you really should set DAVE to -13dB without M-Scaler and -11dB with M-Scaler and use RCA output from DAVE. If you use XLR, you’ll probably have to crank down the DAVE by another -6dB.

I personally think that DAVE should never have had a DAC mode. Or at a very minimum, it should have a 1V DAC mode, 2V DAC mode and 3V DAC mode. There are way too many preamps that clip at 1V and 2V so setting DAVE to DAC mode just gives suboptimal clipping sound.
Thanks again. Yes with Envy -11 to -13 is pretty much where I am at.
 
May 30, 2023 at 10:15 PM Post #24,489 of 25,564
Actually, I looked further and I saw in your other posts that you use Feliks Envy?
According to the specs, Feliks Envy can only handle 1V input. While specs sometimes lies, it is unlikely to be able to handle 3V.
So if you want to be 100% sure you’re not clipping and get optimal sound, you really should set DAVE to -13dB without M-Scaler and -11dB with M-Scaler and use RCA output from DAVE. If you use XLR, you’ll probably have to crank down the DAVE by another -6dB.

I personally think that DAVE should never have had a DAC mode. Or at a very minimum, it should have a 1V DAC mode, 2V DAC mode and 3V DAC mode. There are way too many preamps that clip at 1V and 2V so setting DAVE to DAC mode just gives suboptimal clipping sound.
Thanks, this is really helpful.
 
Jun 7, 2023 at 2:45 AM Post #24,491 of 25,564
Jun 10, 2023 at 6:53 PM Post #24,493 of 25,564
The battery was made especially for DAVE.

It is not found on the market but must be made by a specialized company. It's not easy to find someone willing to make it for you.

Grazie for this. It brings tears to my eyes that this is a thing. Pure battery Chord chain, nice.

Over the years, I had brought up car battery with Sir Watts and Solid Core cabling. To my surprise, he was open to passive power supplies and already implemented Solid Core cabling. I'll always take Passive Power supplies over Active Regulated Power supplies that feedback into the Mains.

I'm Hugo₂-CIEM only, but recently re-activating projects for the Summer. I never had respect for any on the other Chord threads as it's just a bunch of consumers, not enthusiasts. Consumers that easily fall for that LPS propaganda not knowing the LPS propaganda was started to sell BNC cables with Ferrites. The more you add noise to the Chord Chain, the more a need for BNC with Ferrites. Again, consumers. Enthusiast / Knowledge don't fall for that trap especially when getting constant private messages about BNC cables. But fortunately, Hugo₂ don't need to concern much about that and I can stay out of other Chord threads.

You are an enthusiast, so much respect. Finally someone doing things the right way or at least on the right track so makes me really happy. I'm glad you made it a thing as there's finally someone I can respect on the Summit-Fi Chord threads. When your at Mojo₂ / Hugo₂ level, you try to look up to Summit-Fi for enthusiast builds, but they are all weak consumer chains. Ray-dude's is nice, but no Pure Passive Power just here and there. I don't mean to discount as it takes a lot of Cash Money and effort to work on chains, I'm just pointing out it's a philosophy to achieve pureness only a enthusiast can appreciate.

I was just checking this thread if anyone ran Ellipticor-4, so I ran across your post. I also enjoy your comment about Neotech Solid Core in another thread.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellipticor-4.htm

Ell-4_1_599.jpg

My best moments were:

-as a last thing, which I did not expect so strong, switching to lithium battery to power Lumin and M Scaler.:thinking:

Then using the cables from the battery to the two electronics with the Neotech Up OCC Silver cables i had a further increase in depth, soundstage and unimaginable timing.:stuck_out_tongue:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/your-biggest-wow-moments-in-summit-fi.961421/post-16860919
 
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Jun 13, 2023 at 2:08 PM Post #24,495 of 25,564
I just got into it with this guy Mikey OCD who is pushing Playback designs DACs and bashing Chord, while Playback Designs does look nice there is no reason for this bashing behavior. I also find it hard to believe that a DAC that uses 1-bit sigma Delta with apodizing filters is really as good as this guy says. This thing is not even multibit, there is a ton of information on how bad this is. I responded this way because he bashes Chord in his video. 😂
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