CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Kentajalli]

Oh..didn't realize that.. Chord is playing games again, apparently.

All these half truths and manipulation by manufacturer are really grating on my nerves -- and people say I am "negative" about his hobby......

Interpreting raw measurement data is a tough job. One needs scope! (not oscilloscope )
weighting, correct scaling of graphs etc. provide that scope.
Somebody showed me one of goldenone's graphs for Dave, that was zoomed at just 5 Hz per division at brickwall filter, and was saying the filter is no good, it is only -40db at Nyquist! even though the actual bandwidth of the filter was only 100Hz and at -100dB.

 

[AndrewOld]

Seems like Chord's precision manufacturing SOP may need to be updated to correct for these significant variances in performances

The channel imbalance that Amir measured would, if true, also indicate some issues.

 

[stemiki]

I am most disappointed by the poor SINAD of the headphone output at audible levels. I thought Chord’s approach to the headphone output was supposed to be superior as essentially signal coming straight out of the DAC without an amplifier in the path. Why is the headphone out SINAD worse than XLR / RCA output?

Very strange that the headphone output has these problems they measured. I had a Benchmark HPA4 connected to DAVE's RCA outputs and I preferred the Abyss driven directly from the headphone output. Ditto where she states that she did not fly the DCA Stealth well.
Mysteries of SCIENCE ....

 

[ZappaMan]

What way should dave be configured in conjunction with mscaler ? Hifi mode on?

 

[adrianm]

Oh..didn't realize that.. Chord is playing games again, apparently.

All these half truths and manipulation by manufacturer are really grating on my nerves -- and people say I am "negative" about his hobby......

To be fair, i'm not that into measurements, but i do remember reading this years ago, i think even Amir mentioned it in his written review, with the same comments as you.

 

[adrianm]

Very strange that the headphone output has these problems they measured. I had a Benchmark HPA4 connected to DAVE's RCA outputs and I preferred the Abyss driven directly from the headphone output. Ditto where she states that she did not fly the DCA Stealth well.
Mysteries of SCIENCE ....

That's because the HPA4 is well measuring but terrible sounding. I've auditioned it twice.

I am most disappointed by the poor SINAD of the headphone output at audible levels. I thought Chord’s approach to the headphone output was supposed to be superior as essentially signal coming straight out of the DAC without an amplifier in the path. Why is the headphone out SINAD worse than XLR / RCA output?

If i had to guess, i would say the power supply might be holding the headphone amp back. Any improvements to power are certainly easily perceived via headphone out.

I'm glad someone finally measured it, since it's something almost everyone has heard (didn't forget about you Evan). This myth really needs to stop being perpetuated. It might have been true years ago, but there are now great performing amps that do not color the sound.
The Ferrum Oor just walks all over it, without changing the tonality in the slightest (via RCA, I thought it did so slightly via XLR ). The measurements do nothing but confirm it. Even with easy to drive Elites. Bigger soundstage, better depth, layering, imaging, dynamics, and even micro-details. So much for the "purity " myth.
Does this make Dave bad? no, since Dave's headphone out is an afterthought, and the Oor is a 3k amp. Horses for courses.

 

[griff500]

The channel imbalance that Amir measured would, if true, also indicate some issues.

He seems to get different results from the two channels with alarming frequency. Make of that what you will.

 

[stemiki]

That's because the HPA4 is well measuring but terrible sounding. I've auditioned it twice.

HPA4 amplifies without adding or removing anything. It does not equalize the sound. However, it must be taken into account that an external amplifier connected to the RCA or XLR outputs has additional cables and connections in the signal path. As far as I'm concerned, DAVE's headphone output is very, very good.

 

[Sonic77]

Amir says the Topping dac measures better than the Dave dac, but how does it sound compared to the Dave? Has anyone heard both? What are your impressions?
Mr. Watts will need to address these results and verify what Amir said was truthful or not.
Amir says you shouldn't hear a difference with different cables, but I definitely do, so I tend to take what he says with a grain of salt, despite the measurements, I let my ears be the judge.

 

[adrianm]

HPA4 amplifies without adding or removing anything. It does not equalize the sound. However, it must be taken into account that an external amplifier connected to the RCA or XLR outputs has additional cables and connections in the signal path. As far as I'm concerned, DAVE's headphone output is very, very good.

There’s been plenty of testimonials for the contrary. People who could not tell their Rossini apart from their Linn dacs when using both with the HPA4 as a pre.

 

[Arnold Schwartz]

Never heard the Dave but I could easily distinguish the TT2 headphone out as superior to my Auralic amp fed by TT2. Notwithstanding I know I’m not immune to sighted bias. I wish someone would measure the TT2, I would be pretty upset if it measured poorly knowing how well the qutest and Hugo 2 measured and positively reviewed by Amir. These results of Dave from 2 different sources is disconcerting.

 

[DJW50]

He seems to get different results from the two channels with alarming frequency. Make of that what you will.

Maybe his gear is screwed and he has been spouting complete bo****ks all this time.

 

[GoldenSound]

Maybe his gear is screwed and he has been spouting complete bo****ks all this time.

I doubt this is the case. My measurements showed the same behaviour in this area

 

[griff500]

Never heard the Dave but I could easily distinguish the TT2 headphone out as superior to my Auralic amp fed by TT2. Notwithstanding I know I’m not immune to sighted bias. I wish someone would measure the TT2, I would be pretty upset if it measured poorly knowing how well the qutest and Hugo 2 measured and positively reviewed by Amir. These results of Dave from 2 different sources is disconcerting.

If you enjoy it (and it is a very good DAC) then why would certain measurements not being what someone says they should be bother you? Would it suddenly sound worse?

My Dave sounds just as good today as it did before that review and I am just as comfortable with the price as I was before.

 

[alphaman]

My designs are about making the performance as accurate and transparent as possible to the original performance as I hear it. If others do not perceive as I do then so be it, I am not bothered. Thankfully there are very many people who agree with me and are prepared to spend their own money on it - something that I am grateful for, which is why I spend so much time on these threads.

Another aspect is that often thousands of specific and detailed listening tests are involved, that is simply not possible with a panel.

And I am not a testee for Chord - I am entirely independent and own all of the IP that goes into my designs.

Mr Watts:
I think I can promote your products better than, forgive my bluntness, you can.
One name: John Atkinson.
He has a well-equipped and STANDARDIZED lab and has listened to / lab-tested 100s of DACs ... with over hundreds of man-hours .... and he had strong praise for Chord ... except for the DAC in the early 2000s that had some peculiar noise measurements. And all these objective/subjective metrics and opinions have been committed to the web site or the physical Stereophile magazine.