CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Mar 3, 2016 at 7:18 AM Post #1,936 of 25,919
Hmm, lots of questions today!

Firstly, I have not said that 44.1/16 bit is better than HD PCM (its easily better than DSD IMHO - and this is an important requirement - on my DAC's). Probably the best recordings I have is 192/24 - and generally, all things being equal, higher SR is preferable - but not by much. In principle - and note I mean in an ideal world - 44.1/16 is capable of very much better performance than we currently get - with a large enough tap length, you can recover the timing perfectly, assuming the ADC has zero (and I do mean zero) aliasing which currently the pro ADC's do not have - its as bad as -6dB!. Moreover, properly dithered 16 bit is capable of perfectly resolving an infinitely small signal - if you take an infinite period of time to do the FFT or correlation. So the format is capable of, again in principle, of perfectly reproducing the original timing information and perfectly capable of accurately reproducing very small signals.

But "you know nothing Jon Snow" is my favourite quote,and until you do carefully structured and rigorous listening tests, this quote applies. One of the interesting things about the Davina project is being able to decimate 705.6 k to 44.1 without any aliasing at all. Couple that with a long tap length WTA filter on the DAC, then I can actually hear the losses involved and be able to actively minimise them. The next question is the effect of bit depth, and how to treat truncation without degrading sound-stage depth, and this will also be a very interesting test. Now its very easy to do it for a 16FS signal (as in Dave), you simply use a 350dB noise shaper - but this is not an option at 44.1

On to the noise shaper - the 350 dB limit is technology limited (and its a very complex story), given that I am using 20 elements on the pulse array. I could detect a change going from -330 to -350, but frankly it was small. Any more depth to wring out? Perhaps. But by far the biggest loss is on the analogue power amplifier - the digital power amp will solve it (I know as the early prototype had amazing depth reproduction). Then there is the issue of the ADC itself, and again we have Davina coming to the rescue, as I have already designed the ADC noise shaper and this exceeds 350 dB.

I mentioned tap length, and yes I suspect that longer tap lengths will give better sound. But by how much? Frankly I do not know, and its possible its not much. I have mentioned 1M taps before, as this gets us to a sinc function with an accuracy of better than 16 bits - this then guarantees time domain performance exceeding 16 bits accuracy for a 16FS output signal. Unfortunately, the FPGA's capable of doing this are insanely expensive.... And I shudder at the design time needed to write close to 1,000,000 lines of code and verify the design, let alone getting timing closure on the FPGA....

Electrostatic direct drive from a single stage pulse array DAC? Funny, John and I were talking about it today. I think he thought I could design one in an afternoon....

And talking of Jon Snow - season 6 Game of Thrones - not long to wait now.... Much less time to wait than designing an electrostatic DAC/amp, that's for sure.

Rob


Rob you have to call in Rain Man like FaceBook / Intel / Google and NSA , they have hired people with autism, ( autistic savant) and writhing / read / tracking error codes like they where on fire.
 
Mar 3, 2016 at 9:49 AM Post #1,937 of 25,919
Most code these days is generated by the developer working with an IDE, an Integrated Development Environment where you click on the operations you want and it produces the actual low-level code. It's still very difficult and takes a great deal of skill, but it's not directly writing it. You need an understanding of the functionality of the higher level objects used as building blocks and how they interact. Complex Object Libraries are used for this. This is the basis of what is called Object Oriented Design, something that was introduced in the 1990s.
So when you hear about umpteen lines of code, it's not like it was written by hand. The tools allow the skilled engineer or subject-matter-expert or analyst to create things without getting into the gory minute programming details.
 
Mar 3, 2016 at 11:02 AM Post #1,939 of 25,919
Lines of code - actually this includes data for the coefficients so although it's copied by block I still have to copy each block by hand. No automated scripts used but it is a common format. The problems really start with verification, where one line is faulty its wrong. Fortunately I can test for that but fixing the errors takes ages. Then if I want to try different filters it's new coefficient set again... Biggest headache is timing closure when one has to redo the whole thing if timing is not met. Dave took 9 months and that's only 100,000. But then it was an issue of timing closure and top level filter design, which would not need to be done again.
Rob
 
Mar 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM Post #1,943 of 25,919
Most code these days is generated by the developer working with an IDE, an Integrated Development Environment where you click on the operations you want and it produces the actual low-level code.

I really wish it were that easy :frowning2: For non-functional behavior, sure your IDE can generate code. But you don't gain anything other than saving time. It's not like it's actually going to do things. Re-using libraries on the other hand will help you gain time and functionality.
 
Mar 3, 2016 at 6:30 PM Post #1,944 of 25,919
Still wondering when someone will grow tired of his DAVE and sell it to me at a price I can afford
smily_headphones1.gif

I hate it that this product is so good that everyone wants to keep it
smily_headphones1.gif

Just get yerself a Hugo TT and you will be happy. I'd also pair it with your favorite amp to tailor the sound to your liking, but this is controversial. The TT is darn amazing. I have not heard a DAVE, but the TT keeps me totally satisfied. Notice there are no used TTs for sale either.
 
Mar 4, 2016 at 1:55 AM Post #1,945 of 25,919
Still wondering when someone will grow tired of his DAVE and sell it to me at a price I can afford :)
I hate it that this product is so good that everyone wants to keep it :)
Hi m8
I really don't think you're gonna see any second hand Daves for a very long time,if at all,the trouble being is that Dave is very addictive,and when you listen to any other Dac,well let's just say you know what you're missing.
 
Mar 4, 2016 at 2:00 AM Post #1,946 of 25,919
Just get yerself a Hugo TT and you will be happy. I'd also pair it with your favorite amp to tailor the sound to your liking, but this is controversial. The TT is darn amazing. I have not heard a DAVE, but the TT keeps me totally satisfied. Notice there are no used TTs for sale either.


It's just that Rob seems to be very proud of DAVE, sounds like it's his masterpiece so far. So I just can't get myself to settle for the product that's just not quite his masterpiece... Sounds silly, I know :)

And I realize that you addicted people won't sell it, I wouldn't either. Hang on to it guys and enjoy music at a level hardly heard before except for live!
 
Mar 4, 2016 at 2:11 AM Post #1,947 of 25,919
Yesterday we did an event in Tokyo, and it went very well, the Japanese reviewing community are frankly astonished about Dave.
 
And today we had confirmation of six reviewers placing personal orders for Dave....
 
We are very humbled by this enthusiasm.
 
Rob
 
Mar 4, 2016 at 2:44 AM Post #1,948 of 25,919
Yesterday we did an event in Tokyo, and it went very well, the Japanese reviewing community are frankly astonished about Dave.

And today we had confirmation of six reviewers placing personal orders for Dave....

We are very humbled by this enthusiasm.

Rob


Congratulations! You guys deserve the success! Your new products really bring innovation to the table, not like you are making products that are exactly the same plus one button. I think that deserves a lot of respect in our "a new product ever 6 months" society!

Hoping for more reviews too :) Can't wait to read!
 
Mar 4, 2016 at 7:51 AM Post #1,949 of 25,919
Take your time with digital amps, I'm happy with what I got, plus I can save some money, or buy some headphones.

 
Yeah I feel the same way. I can enjoy what i have now and save some money.
 
Still, isn't it nice to know potentially great staff's coming our way and wonder if we can hear well enough to enjoy it and have the coins to afford it ?
 
I ride a Harley for 20 years and Thank God that I used ear plugs every time I ride. That's one reason why I can still enjoy great sound quality and good music now.
 
Rick
 
Mar 4, 2016 at 7:59 AM Post #1,950 of 25,919
  Yesterday we did an event in Tokyo, and it went very well, the Japanese reviewing community are frankly astonished about Dave.
 
And today we had confirmation of six reviewers placing personal orders for Dave....
 
We are very humbled by this enthusiasm.
 
Rob

 
Congratulations. Indeed you guys deserve the success. You have created an instrument that almost brings live music to our homes.
 
One that makes our music much more enjoyable.   
 
Rick
 

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