[Ciggavelli]

That’s what I figured. You went all the way and married Chord without playing around the field.

Divorces are common nowadays

 

[audio_1]

I can't understand the posts on the last few pages and the fascination with expensive DACs. Do none of you appreciate Rob Watts work and the uniqueness of the technology in all his DACs, but especially the Dave and mScaler. I admit there are some setup issues that need tweaking but all DACs require tweaking to sound their best. Dave requires at least a good power cord and power conditioner, but ideally an upgraded power supply. The Opto-DX is also mandatory imho. When the DAVE is optically and physically separated from digital source components (and the mScaler) the quality of those components isn't so important. I just use a a simple Intel Nuc running Roon rock.

Hopefully Dave 2 will have a power supply commensurate with its sound quality and also optical connections for the new Choral mScaler. Tweaking will then be no longer necessary and Dave 2 should sound at its best out of the box.

 

[Sampajanna]

The conversation of “best dac” falls into the same iissue promoted by magazines and reviews—that a singled product can be evaluated in isolation of room and surrounding gear. Of course, a reference rig can help a reviewer determine what a single component is doing, but the evaluation of what it is doing is so system dependent. In other words, whether or not they like it will depend on what it is connected to and whether it synergizes with those components. Another aspect of this not often talked about is the music one primarily enjoys and the relationship music genres have on our appreciation of certain gear. Some audiophiles use music just to hear gear, looking for certain “hifi” effects that they isolate from the same songs over and over. I am a music lover first and foremost, on the other hand. All this changes what gear one should choose. Then finally certain qualities in music appeal to some of us and not others. This relates to Dacs. Where I live there is plenty of opportunity to hear tons of gear in tons of rooms. And traveling around it is easy to see how the room and accompanying gear determine one’s opinion of a product, as does the music played. So does what one is after in a rig. Some want smooth some want detail. I find DSD dacs like many mentioned in the list above of what is “best” to be mushy and lack separation. I dont like their imagining, in other words. And the Dave does timing better than almost all the dacs mentioned, and of course it does the designer focused on that in its creation as a priority. For my system the Dave is better than dCs as well. Like someone stated above, I found the MSB reference to be better overall, but too expensive unfortunately. And budget is, of course, a whole other criteria we all face. I may upgrade dacs one day for sure but I wouldn’t do so because one is more expesive or made some “best of” list, but rather because it paired well with my amps and speakers and added more of the qualities I seek in the music genres I enjoy. I didn‘t view the DC4 upgrade as money added to my Dave that could be used towards a different dac. The DC4 enhances the qualities i love in the Dave—the reason I choose a Dave in the first place… Just my two cents.

 

[Sampajanna]

I can't understand the posts on the last few pages and the fascination with expensive DACs. Do none of you appreciate Rob Watts work and the uniqueness of the technology in all his DACs, but especially the Dave and mScaler. I admit there are some setup issues that need tweaking but all DACs require tweaking to sound their best. Dave requires at least a good power cord and power conditioner, but ideally an upgraded power supply. The Opto-DX is also mandatory imho. When the DAVE is optically and physically separated from digital source components (and the mScaler) the quality of those components isn't so important. I just use a a simple Intel Nuc running Roon rock.

Hopefully Dave 2 will have a power supply commensurate with its sound quality and also optical connections for the new Choral mScaler. Tweaking will then be no longer necessary and Dave 2 should sound at its best out of the box.

Yes. Amen. I chose Dave. It wasn’t random. I listened to lots and chose it. Rob Watts is brilliant, IMO. And why is someone with no Dave or anything to add to a conversation about a Dave—it’s setup or use— on a Dave thread commenting over and over about how other dacs are better… Why spend time thus?

 

[Sampajanna]

It was gradual. I started with a mTT2, traded the TT2 in for a DAVE and then got the 2 DC4s. When I had the mDAVE, I was debated between the DC4s and a DCS Rossini and clock. I figured it was cheaper to get the DC4s than starting off fresh with the Rossini. I haven’t heard the Rossini, but I really want to. I wonder how it compares to the DC4 mDAVE

If it means anything, and as i said it is all system dependent, I heard that dac in my system and much, much prefered the DC4 Dave/Mscaler.

 

[MvRBE10]

The fact that we all can choose, upgrade and listen alot and fiddle with it to our likings or not is all there is. And sharing our opinions and gains, tips etc is all this is about nothing more or less. Just enjoying amongst people that more or less share the same hardware and seeking for there own nirvana without judging but just trying and learning. Everyday. And i must say this is one of the few forums were i feel most of us are comfortable in sharing almost all they enjoy or experience. Thanks for that.

 

[chesebert]

I can't understand the posts on the last few pages and the fascination with expensive DACs. Do none of you appreciate Rob Watts work and the uniqueness of the technology in all his DACs, but especially the Dave and mScaler. I admit there are some setup issues that need tweaking but all DACs require tweaking to sound their best. Dave requires at least a good power cord and power conditioner, but ideally an upgraded power supply. The Opto-DX is also mandatory imho. When the DAVE is optically and physically separated from digital source components (and the mScaler) the quality of those components isn't so important. I just use a a simple Intel Nuc running Roon rock.

Hopefully Dave 2 will have a power supply commensurate with its sound quality and also optical connections for the new Choral mScaler. Tweaking will then be no longer necessary and Dave 2 should sound at its best out of the box.

I don’t think converting spdif to optical and then back to spdif will give you a good time given the significant increase in jitter from the conversion and imperfect optical medium. I would think you lose more than you gain with that setup.

 

[801evan]

I don’t think converting spdif to optical and then back to spdif will give you a good time given the significant increase in jitter from the conversion and imperfect optical medium. I would think you lose more than you gain with that setup.

Ideally cutting the stages and having it right and superior on the first stage is ideal. But until streamers/transport has ocxo and good power quality, multi stages and isolation chains will produce a net positive.

My Pro-ject ds2t with good power + spdif purifier with good power still scales. But my CDT + ocxo with good power and the spdif purifier with good power after it produced a net negative.

 

[801evan]

The conversation of “best dac” falls into the same iissue promoted by magazines and reviews—that a singled product can be evaluated in isolation of room and surrounding gear. Of course, a reference rig can help a reviewer determine what a single component is doing, but the evaluation of what it is doing is so system dependent.

Exactly. There's so much fixation of DAC and amps and this persistence that they must be evaluated by itself and should be able to hold up. Exactly why I got a lot of heat saying the Dave can drive superbly drive the Susvara. Once you get out of the 'its all the same 0s and 1s mindset' and improve your transport and signal chain and also improve ac mains, the Dave is all you need...and this applies to any DAC that cost below or above it.

 

[chesebert]

Ideally cutting the stages and having it right and superior on the first stage is ideal. But until streamers/transport has ocxo and good power quality, multi stages and isolation chains will produce a net positive.

My Pro-ject ds2t with good power + spdif purifier with good power still scales. But my CDT + ocxo with good power and the spdif purifier with good power after it produced a net negative.

Why not just use the optical in the first place given the data stream format is exactly the same? I don’t understand the extra conversions.

 

[801evan]

Why not just use the optical in the first place given the data stream format is exactly the same? I don’t understand the extra conversions.

I agree and it's the same reason I'm not using the opto-dx. I've pursued over-engineering powering the CDT and OCXO with a new psu with 4x more lt3045 than before and silver plugs and the result is amazing. It's like going from a 60 inch tv to 120+ inch.

I'm assuming the protocol is different on the TX and RX since it has to scale to 768. But your paying for the galvanic isolation properties in this setup. I'm not a big fan recommending using a powerbank setup on that too. Actually I'd only use a powerbank to verify the goal that your AC setup should be superior to the powerbank. I tried powering my dac with a powerbank the other day (plus 36x lt3045) and it shrunk the soundstage to the size of how DAPs would present it (like a 20inch tv). If I have the proper voltage to power the OPTO DX
up and downstream, it would still be a a great opportunity to improve the signal chain from a digital streamer, aside from the OPTO USB.

 

[sm60]

I can't understand the posts on the last few pages and the fascination with expensive DACs. Do none of you appreciate Rob Watts work and the uniqueness of the technology in all his DACs, but especially the Dave and mScaler. I admit there are some setup issues that need tweaking but all DACs require tweaking to sound their best. Dave requires at least a good power cord and power conditioner, but ideally an upgraded power supply. The Opto-DX is also mandatory imho. When the DAVE is optically and physically separated from digital source components (and the mScaler) the quality of those components isn't so important. I just use a a simple Intel Nuc running Roon rock.

Hopefully Dave 2 will have a power supply commensurate with its sound quality and also optical connections for the new Choral mScaler. Tweaking will then be no longer necessary and Dave 2 should sound at its best out of the box.

I’m unfortunately not convinced at all that 1) the splitting of the M-scaler/Blu with the Dave with two BNC cables is a sensible design 2) Rob’s “million tap” filter etc. is all that significant an advance in digital audio 3) A hardwired static non-upgradeable design at this stage of progress in streaming audio is a sensible choice.

My 2 year experience with the Blu Mk2 and the Dave convinced me that it was worth exploring alternatives. I’m very happy with my Lampizator Pacific. Yes, it’s twice as expensive as the Dave, but if I compare the improvements in sound from the $1k Topping D90 to the Dave (which is 13x more expensive) vs the improvements in sound from the Dave to the twice more expensive Lampi Pacific, the latter is a far bigger jump.

Yes, the Dave is better than the Topping, but not hugely 13x better. It’s largely cut from the same sonic cloth. Both have a lot of trouble unpacking complex musical pieces, or even simpler combos. My neighbor, back when I lived in Massachusetts, played double bass for the Boston Symphony, but had a lovely jazz trio gig called 3rd String Trio. Their CD of lovely Parisian cafe music features a banjo, a guitar and a harmonium. The Topping and the Dave consistently blur the musical lines, making it hard to tease apart these three instruments. On the Lampi, it’s a whole another world where the three instruments are carved out in a distinct sonic landscape and you can effortlessly separate the lines. On much more complex music, e.g., a Bruckner symphony or Duke Ellington’s Jazz Party, the differences are even greater.

To me it’s no contest. I haven’t heard the recent dCS DACs or the MSB Reference DAC. I will emphasize I am comparing against the stock Dave, not the upgraded Dave with Sean’s LPS. That would make an interesting comparison, as the price for the combo with the M-scaler is the same as the Lampi.

All that said, the Dave has some advantages. It is much smaller and lighter than the Lampi, and doesn’t require expensive tube rolling. The Dave can be used with headphones. That’s why I’m still keeping my Dave. But I have no desire to bring it back into my main system anymore. It’s primary use is as a headphone tabletop DAC, which is like the smaller Chord DACs like the Qutest or the TT2.

Also these are listening room and system dependent choices. There’s no single best choice. I listen in a 6000 cubic foot space with 5” feet tall Quad Electrostatics combined with two massive REL G1 Mk2 subs, being driven by two huge ARC tube mono blocks with 16 KT 120 tubes. In a system of this caliber, the Dave is not competitive with the much larger and massive Lampi. On a smaller system with bookshelf speakers and a smaller room, the Dave might be a better choice.

 

[Sampajanna]

I agree. It is all system/budget/music dependent. I suspect people who like the Playback or EMM labs dacs, for example, have Wilson’s, magicos, YG or similar speakers that are Uber detailed, neutral and forward. Such dacs tame these speakers and make a pleasing, liquid tone. My speakers and amps are a hair warm of neutral. Marten speakers sound musical no matter the gear in my experience. My AVM Ovation 8.3 amps have tube input stage. They arent tubey at all, but are a hair warm or “organic” or what have you….

Anyway, I may have the opportunity in the next couple weeks to audition a fully-loaded Lampizator Pacific (balanced with Volume Control) in my home vs the Dave/Mscaler fully loaded with 2 SJ PSU and storm cables… I also have the option to buy the Lampi, so we will see what we see….

 

[Sampajanna]

PS I listen to a HUGE variety of music, from electronics/ambient to jazz, rock and lots of world music. Occasionally, classical and opera as well….

 

[Sampajanna]

PS I fundamentally disagree with the Topping and Dave in the same sentence bit....