CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[adrianm]

So, I went back to the DC4'd mDAVE for my TCs. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the bass impact on the DC4'd mDAVE is actually greater than the WA33 EE JPS. It's almost too much impact (can't believe I'm saying this). The bass bloom is better on the WA33 EE JPS (which I guess makes sense).

I compared the Susvara bass out of the DC4'd mDAVE and WA33 EE JPS, and they are close, but the WA33 EE JPS has more impact and extension.

I still don't know why the DC4 does this to my DAVE. It's really confusing (but a pleasant surprise). Anybody have any thoughts on why this is happening?

I'd say it's just better power. I find the same effect every time i reduce noise, either via battery + optical to the M-scaler or add the filter. Less noise makes dynamics pop more. Like Oled vs Led.

 

[edwardsean]

If you add tosliink in your equasion as i use with my aurender. Bnc and toslink are the same signal/protocol only toslink has a optical converter in between. As aurender says tos and bnc is the best from there machine. Would the bnc dx path gain me some more analogue experience maybe nick did this comparison. Basicly src-dx and wave cable to my scaler instead of toslink. Guess i can compare them 1:1 if i arrange a set.. just thinking as i am typing. Hope somebody did this already

Definitely, both BNC and toslink use S/Pdif. However, as usual, it comes down to implementation. For instance, toslink gains you galvanic decoupling, but there is distortion in converting the signal to optical and back.

Nick and others would be able to answer your use case. For myself, using PGGB + SRC-DX is to get around Mscaler, while also getting around Dave's Amanero USB chipset. That is the advantage of SRC-DX.

 

[MvRBE10]

I have the same impact on my speakers since the farad upgrade my audio buddies asked me if i placed a subwoofer. They are saying the whole system is going lower and with more impact. Same is on my utopia but less than on my two way system. My guess is that the power supply gives a more steady voltage base on the outputstages of the rca or headphones so less fluctuation but also due to less noise more theres more headroom butt thats hard to explain the really big difference it makes. So im not really sure why. Will ask the lps wizzard mattijs from farad if i speak with him maybe he has some insight on this.

 

[NYanakiev]

Hmmm pretty odd indeed. Since adding the SRC-DX to my setup, I am getting some sort of sonic artifacts at the start of some songs in Roon.
It is just the first 1 or 2 seconds but it is rather annoying. Any ideas?

 

[edwardsean]

So, I went back to the DC4'd mDAVE for my TCs. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the bass impact on the DC4'd mDAVE is actually greater than the WA33 EE JPS. It's almost too much impact (can't believe I'm saying this). The bass bloom is better on the WA33 EE JPS (which I guess makes sense).

I compared the Susvara bass out of the DC4'd mDAVE and WA33 EE JPS, and they are close, but the WA33 EE JPS has more impact and extension.

I still don't know why the DC4 does this to my DAVE. It's really confusing (but a pleasant surprise). Anybody have any thoughts on why this is happening?

This is not a direct answer to your question, but pursues a parallel line. Yes, a lot of it does come down to: power.

However, retrofitting Dave's power supply is not the only way to increase the drive (perceived drive) of Dave's headphone output. The source/server, and its power supply, can be transformative to Dave's headphone out. Along with the DC3/DC4, I don't think that the source can change the actual power of Dave's HO either. However, the gains to SQ can be enormous, including a huge jump in the weight and punch of the bass.

This actually may be the best solution for those who: don't want an amp to keep the transparency of Dave's HO + want more drive + don't want to void the warranty and alter Dave's internals.

I think the reason this is not more widely discussed here is that many servers don't make the kind of differences we're talking about. A lot of servers use lower power CPUs to reduce noise, which it does, but this also makes little improvement to dynamics and timbral mass. So any number of solutions from SoTM, Sonore, Innuos, etc. provide many wonderful things, but may not be what you're looking for. It wasn't what I was looking for.

Case in point, I just got through an in-home audition of the superb Grimm MU1. The Grimm has one of best implementations of a switch mode supply available today, using, I'm told, five discrete units. It had wonderful precision and pristine clarity, but the resulting signal did little for macro/micro dynamics and the visceral sculpting of tone.

What achieves these results for Dave's HO is a custom high power server with a quality supply running at higher frequencies and voltages. Yes, it will also bring increased noise and distortion too. So, this must be cleaned up, but even if it's not, this may strike a better balance of transparency v. drive than a headphone amp.

Nothing in this is easy–well unless you buy a Taiko. And that's not easy either. Apart from the cost, you have to sit your wife down and explain why you either have to sell her car or cut your child's college fund. You could sell your car, but then how would you escape when your wife responds?

 

[Ciggavelli]

This is not a direct answer to your question, but pursues a parallel line. Yes, a lot of it does come down to: power.

However, retrofitting Dave's power supply is not the only way to increase the drive (perceived drive) of Dave's headphone output. The source/server, and its power supply, can be transformative to Dave's headphone out. Along with the DC3/DC4, I don't think that the source can change the actual power of Dave's HO either. However, the gains to SQ can be enormous, including a huge jump in the weight and punch of the bass.

This actually may be the best solution for those who: don't want an amp to keep the transparency of Dave's HO + want more drive + don't want to void the warranty and alter Dave's internals.

I think the reason this is not more widely discussed here is that many servers don't make the kind of differences we're talking about. A lot of servers use lower power CPUs to reduce noise, which it does, but this also makes little improvement to dynamics and timbral mass. So any number of solutions from SoTM, Sonore, Innuos, etc. provide many wonderful things, but may not be what you're looking for. It wasn't what I was looking for.

Case in point, I just got through an in-home audition of the superb Grimm MU1. The Grimm has one of best implementations of a switch mode supply available today, using, I'm told, five discrete units. It had wonderful precision and pristine clarity, but the resulting signal did little for macro/micro dynamics and the visceral sculpting of tone.

What achieves these results for Dave's HO is a custom high power server with a quality supply running at higher frequencies and voltages. Yes, it will also bring increased noise and distortion too. So, this must be cleaned up, but even if it's not, this may strike a better balance of transparency v. drive than a headphone amp.

Nothing in this is easy–well unless you buy a Taiko. And that's not easy either. Apart from the cost, you have to sit your wife down and explain why you either have to sell her car or cut your child's college fund. You could sell your car, but then how would you escape when your wife responds?

Interesting. I have an Antipodes K50 (not a Taiko Extreme but close). I didn’t have the K50 back in the day when I last tried the HO on the DAVE (I think I was just running it off my computer). I guess the new HO performance on my DAVE might be a combination of things (maybe also my Isotek too)

 

[jlbrach]

I am not surprised the power supply makes a large difference given the improvement I saw when I added the powerman to my formula s.....it made it seem as if it was a far more powerful amp

 

[GryphonGuy]

I'm not sure why the Phoenix and SRC-DX are being compared to one another, as they do different things. Is the thought that they both provide an increase in SQ, but one is a lot cheaper?

In my experience they both add different qualities to the sound. The SRC-DX allows you to bypass USB, and access Dave's BNC input providing an analog smoothness and density. The Phoenix, as a USB regenerator + clock, is a much more expensive and complicated unit, but it also offers more. You not only gain a more organic tone but also imaging precision and staging space.

Another thing to consider is that the SRC-DX really scales with better BNC cables, which are going to multiply the price if you're going dual BNC to upsample with PGGB.

If you can chain together: PGGB > Phoenix > SRC-DX > dual BNC the result is very satisfying. This has the further benefit of powering the SRC-DX with the Sean Jacobs linear power supply in the Phoenix.

The only reason I am choosing the SRC-DX route first is that, it too, is fed by USB but as you say converts the USB into the DX signal required by DAVE for the higher resolutions. So in my system does the current USB chain benefit in SQ by going the conversion to DX route using DAVE as the output? If so, then it will probably benefit more from a phoenix USB to regenerate/reclock the USB signal feeding the SRC-DX.

With such a big purchase of the ARC6-DC4 coming up, I am not made of money so I have chosen a not so expensive staged approach to signal betterment for my Dave.

I don't think I've misunderstood the role of the various equipment, it's just a which is first approach.

Regards
GG

 

[Progisus]

Hmmm pretty odd indeed. Since adding the SRC-DX to my setup, I am getting some sort of sonic artifacts at the start of some songs in Roon.
It is just the first 1 or 2 seconds but it is rather annoying. Any ideas?

I get those as well if the sample rate changes. I use the resync delay in roon to soften this. You may lose a very tiny piece of the track but it is at least silent.

 

[Triode User]

You could sell your car, but then how would you escape when your wife responds?

Simple, sell her car instead?

 

[NYanakiev]

I get those as well if the sample rate changes. I use the resync delay in roon to soften this. You may lose a very tiny piece of the track but it is at least silent.

Tried with a 500ms delay, only helps a little. The strange thing is that I never had this prior to getting the SRC-DX with the extra BNC cable.

 

[Progisus]

Tried with a 500ms delay, only helps a little. The strange thing is that I never had this prior to getting the SRC-DX with the extra BNC cable.

I am at 2000ms but I can live any track losses rather than the clicks and pops.

 

[naynay]

I haven't taken a lot of notice regarding the Sean Jacobs ARC6 for the Dave but did recently have a look on his website.

£7000 for the ARC6 spec. I can see the next upgrade to the ARC6 costing more than the Dave.

 

[MvRBE10]

Take a look at the farad upgrade?

 

[naynay]

Take a look at the farad upgrade?

Yes there are those. I am waiting on Nick's findings when he gets to compare those to his ARC6 which I believe he said he would try to arrange.