[alxw0w]

Good, so I can rest easy that my money was best spent on a DC4 rather than a Holo May and Preamp.

Cannot comment on Dc4 as I've never heard it. But based on impressions posted over the forums it seems like it makes Dave more Dave.
So if you don't want anything different just better Dave then yes, I suppose DC4 was right move.

 

[musickid]

Anyone using top of the range ultrasone headphones with dave? Edition 15 or Edition 15 veritas.

 

[burbster]

Cannot comment on Dc4 as I've never heard it. But based on impressions posted over the forums it seems like it makes Dave more Dave.
So if you don't want anything different just better Dave then yes, I suppose DC4 was right move.

I guess only time will tell, lead time on DC4 around 5 weeks. I was a little tempted with the Holo, and an Aqua formula, I really enjoy a deep holographic sound stage, and both those DACs are meant to do that really well, with a great sense or ‘realism’ To be fair Dave is also pretty awesome at this, and hoping DC4 will make it even more so.

 

[thePhones]

Anyone using top of the range ultrasone headphones with dave? Edition 15 or Edition 15 veritas.

I use the Edition 5 with Dave. It is of course a closed headphone therefor not quite comparable to my other headphones in that way. The Edition 5 is far from a neutral tuning but I don‘t mind very much because I am happy with the transparency of the EQ I use. Today I mostly prefer the quality of open headphones but I come back to the Edition 5 from time to time because of the very natural “live“ feeling that none of the other quite reach, they have the ability to render the space where the recording was made very naturally. For the most natural timbre of instruments I rather listen with HD800 (although also heavily EQ‘d).
I heard they went for a more neutral tuning with the Edition 15.
Another thing I should mention is, Warranty is 5 years but I had to use it quite often. One dead driver, a broken headband, connection issues with the mmcx plug, the rubber on one of the cables got sticky. It really is a manufacture so they can change some things like my Edition 5 is now getting the new LEMO connector. Was all covered no questions asked but I do not want to go through that outside of Germany.

 

[RustyGates]

No offense but I doubt it. Have you ever heard the MSB Technologies Select DAC with the MSB Select headphone amplifier? The Nagra HD DAC with the Sennheiser HE 1? dCS Vivaldi stack connected to a Blue Hawaii/Stax SR-009s combo? Because that’s what is out there “at any price point.”

I still have my old Yggdrasil and it is an outstanding product at a very, very decent price. Of course they’re not in the same league since the DAVE costs about 4-5 times more (depending on where you live).

That’s exactly my point: it’s not worth comparing two DACs when the price difference is this big.

I don’t have to. I asked you a simple question and you answered it; this is what a forum like this is for.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the DAVE/M Scaler sound. But just like the Yggdrasil is not in the same league with the DAVE, the DAVE is not in the same league with the MSB Select. That’s just the harsh reality.

It’s great if you’re happy with them or you found your end-game setup. However, it doesn’t mean that it beats everything at any price point.

Just because its more expensive, doesn't mean its better. A lot of these hi-fi products are just inflated in price to have a perception of ultra-high-end to them, to place them in the market at some position. If they were priced much cheaper, no one takes it seriously. Look at the price of a D'Agostino Relentless... $250k USD, the price of a house. Those amps, are really worth the price of a house in terms of BOM and manufacturing (yes I know the chassis work is somewhat expensive.. but a house)? No. Is its electronic design anywhere near as complex as, for example an AHB2? Absolutely not.

From memory the DAVE won the RMAF HiFi Press best DAC of the year award twice in a row, over the Vivaldi. And DAVE measures better (see the Stereophile measurements), yet the Vivaldi costs the price of a brand new Mazda SUV, and it doesn't even have a headphone amp. On top of that you have the dCS external clock crap, more expensive s*** you don't need and don't want when a properly implemented PLL sorts the issue.

And as for the MSB... I look at those prices and just think... what the hell? In terms of R2R, does a Select DAC measure 80k USD+ better than a Holo May? HELL No. (see https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/msb-a.php#gsc.tab=0 vs https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-may-level-3-da-processor-measurements). In fact, it measures worse.

Both the MSB and dCS dacs measure worse than DAVE.

Given how freaking laughable the prices are, why don't these OEMs of "ultra-high-end" equipment actually release measurements of their products to prove how good they are, as Rob Watts does with every product he designs? After all, the job of the DAC is simply to reproduce the original analogue signal as accurately as possible in both frequency & time domains given the digital data. And the DAVE simply does that better with added benefit of a damn good headamp.

Cheers to the rich who have all the gear and no idea.

 

[ecwl]

I guess only time will tell, lead time on DC4 around 5 weeks. I was a little tempted with the Holo, and an Aqua formula, I really enjoy a deep holographic sound stage, and both those DACs are meant to do that really well, with a great sense or ‘realism’ To be fair Dave is also pretty awesome at this, and hoping DC4 will make it even more so.

For me, because I switch between headphones and speakers once in a while, and i always prefer to listen to headphones with Crossover 3 setting, I sometimes would forget to set crossover back to 0 when I move back to speaker listening and that always messes up the soundstage. The problem is that if I’m listening to my familiar test tracks, I would pick it up right away. But if I’m listening to new music or watching a TV show, I can sometimes miss it for a few days which is truly embarrassing for an audiophile. Just something to always double check if you find the soundstage is a little messed up with speakers.

 

[arftech]

Just because its more expensive, doesn't mean its better. A lot of these hi-fi products are just inflated in price to have a perception of ultra-high-end to them, to place them in the market at some position. If they were priced much cheaper, no one takes it seriously. Look at the price of a D'Agostino Relentless... $250k USD, the price of a house. Those amps, are really worth the price of a house in terms of BOM and manufacturing (yes I know the chassis work is somewhat expensive.. but a house)? No. Is its electronic design anywhere near as complex as, for example an AHB2? Absolutely not.

From memory the DAVE won the RMAF HiFi Press best DAC of the year award twice in a row, over the Vivaldi. And DAVE measures better (see the Stereophile measurements), yet the Vivaldi costs the price of a brand new Mazda SUV, and it doesn't even have a headphone amp. On top of that you have the dCS external clock crap, more expensive s*** you don't need and don't want when a properly implemented PLL sorts the issue.

And as for the MSB... I look at those prices and just think... what the hell? In terms of R2R, does a Select DAC measure 80k USD+ better than a Holo May? HELL No. (see https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/msb-a.php#gsc.tab=0 vs https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-may-level-3-da-processor-measurements). In fact, it measures worse.

Both the MSB and dCS dacs measure worse than DAVE.

Given how freaking laughable the prices are, why don't these OEMs of "ultra-high-end" equipment actually release measurements of their products to prove how good they are, as Rob Watts does with every product he designs? After all, the job of the DAC is simply to reproduce the original analogue signal as accurately as possible in both frequency & time domains given the digital data. And the DAVE simply does that better with added benefit of a damn good headamp.

Cheers to the rich who have all the gear and no idea.

Just because it measures better it doesn’t necessarily mean it will sound better but yes the cost of some of this stuff is ridiculou!

 

[gancanjam]

My quest to determine Dave Vs Holo May DAC is still ongoing with polarized opinions in Head Fi community Damn Covid !! meet ups have dried down these days to audition them side by side. I have only heard Dave and it is a fantabulous DAC, it has embarrassed the inbuilt DACs of Simaudio Moon 430 HAD, Flux FCN-10 and bunch of other DACs. Will see, there is an another comparison thread for the same so have been doing a check in there. Hope to zero in on a DAC soon

 

[alxw0w]

I guess only time will tell, lead time on DC4 around 5 weeks. I was a little tempted with the Holo, and an Aqua formula, I really enjoy a deep holographic sound stage, and both those DACs are meant to do that really well, with a great sense or ‘realism’ To be fair Dave is also pretty awesome at this, and hoping DC4 will make it even more so.

Please report back when you get DC4.
For now I don't want to even think about buying external power supply for the Dave, but oh my god I know that at some point this thought of getting Dave to being more Dave is going to kill me.

 

[Tubewin]

My quest to determine Dave Vs Holo May DAC is still ongoing with polarized opinions in Head Fi community Damn Covid !! meet ups have dried down these days to audition them side by side. I have only heard Dave and it is a fantabulous DAC, it has embarrassed the inbuilt DACs of Simaudio Moon 430 HAD, Flux FCN-10 and bunch of other DACs. Will see, there is an another comparison thread for the same so have been doing a check in there. Hope to zero in on a DAC soon

TylersEclectic has a interesting review/comparison of the May against the Bifrost and Chord TT2. If the TT2 has any similarities to the Dave, perhaps you may be able to glean some information from that. But of course, without the Dave being present, any conclusion between the Dave and May would be premature. Interesting watch nonetheless.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Just because its more expensive, doesn't mean its better. A lot of these hi-fi products are just inflated in price to have a perception of ultra-high-end to them, to place them in the market at some position. If they were priced much cheaper, no one takes it seriously.

No idea what the Cost of Goods is for these products, or their real margins, but there is also a scale issue: that is economy of scale. How many units are sold by these high-end manufacturers? Likely "lower-level" product numbers fund the flagships.

And @RustyGates has a point re: costs being raised to be taken seriously in the market space. In a different segment, I had a manufacturer client that had a great product; arguably best in the market. Sales were subterranean. Doubled the price, sales skyrocketed, and they had to struggle to make enough of them. And this is not an edge case, in my experience.

 

[muski]

this thought of getting Dave to being more Dave is going to kill me.

Me too!

(Nicely said, @alxw0w)

 

[EuropeanEar]

I'm going to take SM60's position and ask to see some proof that what MSB is doing is the state of the art, and not just "Hi-Fi tuning" with a side of "Distortion seasoning" tailored to different tastes, which is 90% of what people who already have the best gear enjoy chasing because frankly...when there's no better, you start looking for "different".

Nobody has to prove you anything. Go and audition it if you're really interested and hear it yourself. Then you would have a first-hand experience if it's better or just different.

 

[EuropeanEar]

Again, in my opinion and experience, the DAVE+Blu Mk II has.

Again, it's all good if you're happy with your gear that perfectly suits your needs. However, your subjective opinion does not become an objective fact no matter how much gear you bought/sold or many posts you had here.

 

[EuropeanEar]

Just because its more expensive, doesn't mean its better.

That is true.

A lot of these hi-fi products are just inflated in price to have a perception of ultra-high-end to them, to place them in the market at some position. If they were priced much cheaper, no one takes it seriously.

Speculation. Yes, it happened a few times that overpriced gear hit the market but those items don't sell good on the long-term. You simply can't fool just about everybody, dealers, magazines, reviewers, customers. People are not that stupid. Sooner or later someone would realize that the emperor has no clothes.
Also, just because we can name overpriced but otherwise mediocre gears, it does not mean that it applies to all high priced items.

Look at the price of a D'Agostino Relentless... $250k USD, the price of a house. Those amps, are really worth the price of a house in terms of BOM and manufacturing (yes I know the chassis work is somewhat expensive.. but a house)?

Well, it depends on where you live. It could be enough for not more than a down payment around here but this is besides the point.

And DAVE measures better (see the Stereophile measurements), yet the Vivaldi costs the price of a brand new Mazda SUV, and it doesn't even have a headphone amp. On top of that you have the dCS external clock crap, more expensive s*** you don't need and don't want when a properly implemented PLL sorts the issue.

And as for the MSB... I look at those prices and just think... what the hell? In terms of R2R, does a Select DAC measure 80k USD+ better than a Holo May? HELL No. (see https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/msb-a.php#gsc.tab=0 vs https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-may-level-3-da-processor-measurements). In fact, it measures worse.

Both the MSB and dCS dacs measure worse than DAVE.

I have no interest in measurements. Only what I hear and my budget do define my audio investments.

Given how freaking laughable the prices are...

See, this really depends on your point of view. The DAVE is laughably overpriced from the point of view of a third world blue collar worker.

Cheers to the rich who have all the gear and no idea.

It could be psychologically comforting to believe that all rich people have no idea but I'm afraid that's not the case.