CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

My dealer was a bit faster and I received M Sacler couple of days ago
Now I'm waiting for aluminium stand for the whole stack (just a random monitor stand).


And my current DIY cables:


The sound is just sublime !
And again I've experienced music slowing down and getting calmer with the m scaler. Bizarre feeling.

 

[118900]

Ok so here are a few of my words on switching from MTT2 to the Dave.

Prologue
Lets start that I was using Chord dacs for some time. Started like ~2 years ago with Mojo - which was bought with no expectations whatsoever.
I just needed small dac/amp to use it at work.
Mojo had been on my radar for some time but to be honest it was the stage when I underestimated it because of it's size and price which back then was seen by me as way too high for such "TOY" (sorry Chord, I'm pretty sure we all were that at some point of our audiophile "career" - good audio gear need to be heavy big, hot...)
Anyway I decided to try Mojo, and was surprised by its performance, Mojo was sounding different, then I couldn't put any word what the difference was. It was competing with the other big desktop gear that I had at that time.
Immediately I started to thinking how good Hugo 2 can be. Hugo TT and Dave were beyond my imagination as the price seemed to be just not for me (yeah right)

So after couple of months thinking about Hugo 2 I thought ok let's give it a try. Just compare it to my Audio-gd combo and if it's better I'll sell the audio gd to cover some cost of the hugo 2 - if not it will go back to the dealer (still the price was a bit repulsive).

My impressions of that can be found here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-hugo-2-the-official-thread.831345/post-14847081
From time perspective I'll add that Hugo 2 just walked over Audio GD combo.
And from Hugo 2 I was sucked. I was amazed how such small transportable thing could sound so amazing so different. I wanted more of that Chord sound. Nothing different just more, just gimme their top dacs.

M Scaler + TT2 or Dave - what to choose ?
Yup as I said I was sucked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5CL4oaIpY8). After Hugo 2 and wanting more of that Chord sound I had some romance with TT1 (yes the first one). After that thank to @Ragnar-BY I switched to TT2 + M Scaler (damn you ragnar, you are part of this crazy journey )
And it was bliss. I couldn't be happier. The combo had everything it was perfect. I wasn't even thinking about Dave even if the price was similar why I should change it. My thinking was TT2 vs Dave is probably very close as the TT2 is a newer iteration of Chord (Dave is 5yo at that point) so adding M Scaler to the TT2 will just outclass solo Dave, wouldn't it ?
I was living for couple of months with my MTT2 combo and was happy. The only thing that was bothering me was BOXES and CABLES. I have tight space on my desk, and this space was going to shrink even more because of adding second monitor to allow me to work in better environment.

So naturally there were thoughts of maybe I should sell MTT2 and just go with the Dave - as it will simplify my setup under the desk and whats more important on the desk dramatically (simple power cable + toslink, no power bricks etc.)
It was very hard decision as on the internet there is very little comparisons if any of MTT2 vs Dave. I was afraid to lose everything that m scaler and tt2 combo was giving to me. On top of that I was using MTT2 combo for only like 4 months, so another change in such short period ? (dancing with the devil) Call me crazy I went full in, switched to solo Dave.
And oh boy I can't be happier.
Dave is just on another level. I'm not missing anything from the old combo (almost anything but more on that later). Dave has it all, crazy decay, crazy separation, transparency, clarity extension on both ends like nothing else.

Here are some main points of my feeling about Dave:

1. Dave sounds cooler than MTT2, but not harsh or anything just cooler/brighter.​

2. Bass is better controlled. At the beginning it sounded thinner but with time you start to realize how much different instrument timber sound because of that, it also connects to the first point of Dave being cooler. It's amazingly controlled, not bloated wall of sound just fast punchy and reaching very deep. I had similar feeling when switching from TT1 to TT2. And here with TT2-Dave is another step.​

3. Highs are extremely extended detailed and shiny, yet not harsh they won't cut your ears they are smooth at the same time.​

Small side note here: I remember reading some high end gear reviews when reviewers were talking about that dac (not Dave, just general dacs) is bright and detailed on top. I couldn't understand how you can like bright dacs. It will always hurt your ears (especially on headphones). Now with the Dave I can fully understand how you can be addicted to extremely good treble. A lot of my previous lesser dacs had this harsh forced treble and I just thought that my ears don't like high frequencies although they sound in general was rather dark/muddied. I couldn't have been more wrong. I was just listening to wrong dacs. When treble is done properly it becomes addictive like low bass notes.​

4. Clarity on Dave is.... I'm speechless. For me that's the strongest point of Dave. It amazed me I was overwhelmed how much clearer everything sounded. Every instrument every note is now separated from each other like never before. It's like MTT2 was already amazing but Dave is just different. Layers of music are so much separated. It's extremely well "visible" in complex music passages. Notes never sound congested/squashed into one waveform, everything exists on it's own layer. It must be heard. ​

5. Quiet notes/instruments are much easier to spot. I'm sure it has something to noise shapers that Rob was talking about. Now quiet notes are more "visible" at the beginning it's like sound feels "compressed" (like louder instruments sound quieter and quiet instruments are louder). Really strange/bizzare experience. What is more strange that this quieter instruments are not only like quiet but also their image is smaller. Like you hear the 3D shape of the note in the space is smaller not only quieter, but at the same time its easier to spot details. Hard to explain, but I'm sure Dave users know what I'm talking about.​

6. Spookiness. All above points connects to spooky experience. I remember reading about it in review of the Dave @ audiobacon.net site. I couldn't understand it. With good dac music sounds good, but with the Dave sometimes it sounds like you are there. I know it sounds like total cliche. But that's my feeling (and I'm not sure I'm not the only one). Instruments/notes on different tracks sometimes sound so spooky real. It's not even funny. I haven't experience this on MTT2 combo, not even once. Dave just sounds more convincing.​

​

The only two things that I'm missing from MTT2 combo are: power and smoothness. With power it's only on some tracks. I feel like TT2 was driving controlling better my headphones especially on high volume levels. But it's not always, only some tracks/albums. And the smoothness that flow that m scaler was giving is something I'm missing a bit. But still all above points make experience so good that I don't regret the change. It was definitely worth it.

Epilogue
So that pretty much sums all my feelings about the Dave. I know some of the things that I mention may sound like cliche to some people or like I'm exaggerating. Maybe I am but Dave is really different. All the philosophy that Rob is saying about his approach on dacs are connecting into one piece in the Dave - it really make full sense now. Currently I'm working from home so music is on my headphones for at least 8 hours per day. And I can't get enough. I'm not tired don't have any fatigue, just want to listen more and more.
If I knew that the Dave is such amazing kit I would buy it much earlier.
Cheers

ps. sorry for such long post and for any mistakes. Damn I should add some photos do a bit of rewriting some of the points and post it on review section on head fi

I need to stop reading stuff like this. I’ve only had my HTT2 since 23 dec and although it blows my mind reading about the Dave is beginning to worry me about spending money I don’t have......

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I need to stop reading stuff like this. I’ve only had my HTT2 since 23 dec and although it blows my mind reading about the Dave is beginning to worry me about spending money I don’t have......

Don't worry it's not like YOU HAVE TO CHANGE.
It's only valid when somebody is really thinking of taking his rig to another upgrade route. If you are happy with MTT2 - just leave it as it is.
TT2 gives you more flexibility when it comes to headphone matching or even driving loudspeakers directly.

 

[iDesign]

Hmm... I actually rarely have MQA decode turned off so I just tried it now. Interesting.
I think this is how I conceptualizer MQA. It is a short tap-length filter designed to mimick good transient accuracy so it both “encodes”/filter the music with the MQA filter when downsampling and then when you play it back you’re “decoding” the music with the MQA filter.
So if the original recording is 96kHz 24-bit, it takes that signal and re-filters it using the MQA filter to 48kHz 24-bit but the 48kHz 24-bit actually is not a straightforward downsampling of 96kHz 24-bit original so the 48kHz 24-bit is actually altered in terms of transient accuracy. The hope is that when you then take the 48kHz 24-bit and upsample/filter it back to 96kHz 24-bit music, the MQA filter will restore it close to what the original 96kHz 24-bit original was.
The problem with these short tap length “imitation” filter as I like to call them is that the transient attack of each note can actually vary quite significantly. So some notes are reproduced with the right strike/pluck and transient but other notes are not. And once your ears pick up on it, it is infinitely annoying. And when DAVE/M-Scaler can accurately further upscale the music from 96kHz to 768kHz, the transient timing issues become super prominent.
So having just done a test listen with some albums where I own the original 96kHz 24-bit and can listen to Tidal MQA 48kHz 24-bit without decode and with MQA decoded back to 96kHz 24-bit, what I find is that the 48kHz 24-bit file played back the way @Roasty describes still has transient inaccuracies scattered all over the place... It’s just not as bad as if the track is fully decoded back to MQA 96kHz. I suspect this is because at least DAVE/M-Scaler at least restore the transient accuracy from the 48kHz to 96kHz stage. But the Tidal MQA 48kHz sounds nothing remotely close to the original 96kHz source.
Similarly, unfortunately, Tidal puts on a lot of MQA tracks that were taken from CD masters (44kHz 16-bit). I think in these situations, what MQA did was to run their own upsampler from 44kHz to 88kHz and then run the upsampled 88kHz through the MQA filter encoding process. As a result, once again, the resultant 44kHz 24-bit file actually is already littered with transient inaccuracies compared to the original 44kHz 16-bit file. And when played with the MQA decode to 88kHz, these inaccuracies are just even more prominently heard via DAVE and M-Scaler.

At the end of the day, now that I’ve done this little experiment, i would still say if possible, this is the order I would listen to my source for DAVE+M-Scaler
1) Original high-res track if available
2) Original CD 44kHz version of the track
3) MQA 44kHz or 48kHz tracks without decode as @Roasty suggested
4) MQA decoded

After I wrote my previous post, I began scrolling through my favorited TIDAL albums in Audirvana+ only to discover that about 1/4th of them have been replaced by MQA versions. In all of those instances TIDAL appears to no longer list a standard version of the album that can be manually selected. I cancelled my TIDAL subscription upon seeing this and its one of the many reasons I have not made significant investments into streaming audio which is down a dirt road. I didn’t expect MQA to be so aggressive in retroactively working through the TIDAL catalog. Very disappointing they don’t give users a choice.

 

[Ciggavelli]

After I wrote my previous post, I began scrolling through my favorited TIDAL albums in Audirvana+ only to discover that about 1/4th of them have been replaced by MQA versions. In all of those instances TIDAL appears to no longer list a standard version of the album that can be manually selected. I cancelled my TIDAL subscription upon seeing this and its one of the many reasons I have not made significant investments into streaming audio which is down a dirt road. I didn’t expect MQA to be so aggressive in retroactively working through the TIDAL catalog. Very disappointing they don’t give users a choice.

If you use Roon, sometimes you can select different versions of albums from Tidal. But yeah, I pay for Qobuz and Tidal for that one reason. I’d like to stick with only Qobuz, but their catalogue is missing a lot of albums I want (mostly in obscure metal, but also some hip-hop).

 

[moemoney]

If you use Roon, sometimes you can select different versions of albums from Tidal. But yeah, I pay for Qobuz and Tidal for that one reason. I’d like to stick with only Qobuz, but their catalogue is missing a lot of albums I want (mostly in obscure metal, but also some hip-hop).

My question is in Tidal inside of Roon you have three option, one of which is to have MQA turned off. Wouldn’t that resolve all those issues?

 

[iDesign]

If you use Roon, sometimes you can select different versions of albums from Tidal. But yeah, I pay for Qobuz and Tidal for that one reason. I’d like to stick with only Qobuz, but their catalogue is missing a lot of albums I want (mostly in obscure metal, but also some hip-hop).

My question is in Tidal inside of Roon you have three option, one of which is to have MQA turned off. Wouldn’t that resolve all those issues?

Not in cases where TIDAL only has an MQA version of the album so it is then being converted. And their decision to replace and remove non-MQA versions is why I canceled my subscription. Roon, Audirvana+, and other apps allow you to see and manually select any of the formats available in your region. Unfortunately, in too many cases the only format available is MQA and it seems some major labels are adding all of their new albums exclusively in MQA format.

I agree that Qobuz is missing some albums from various artists and labels but it has come a long way since I was a beta user in the US. They’ve worked hard to onboard suppliers.

 

[Ciggavelli]

@ray-dude ‘s review of the DC4 external power supply for his DAVE is pretty great

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...-sound-application-pgi-tt-7-part-1-of-2-r973/

I’m so undecided on what to do next, regarding my dac. Do I use the DC4 on my DAVE and m-scaler, or do I buy a Mola Mola Tambaqui? Or should I be trying for the dCS dacs?

I wish I could audition them all, but that’s really not likely where I live and during Covid times.

I guess I’ll just stick to reading up on all these dac trends

 

[ecwl]

@ray-dude ‘s review of the DC4 external power supply for his DAVE is pretty great
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...-sound-application-pgi-tt-7-part-1-of-2-r973/
I’m so undecided on what to do next, regarding my dac. Do I use the DC4 on my DAVE and m-scaler, or do I buy a Mola Mola Tambaqui? Or should I be trying for the dCS dacs?

So you may or may not have seen my comment on the “why” DC4 sounds better in that article on Audiophile Style. Is it the power supply? Or is it the minimization of ground loop leakage current? I see you already have EtherRegen and lots of other gear to reduce the leakage current.
I was tempted to buy the EtherRegen at some point and kept upgrading my source. Mostly because I wanted a source plugged into the wall, rather than a battery powered iPad/laptop. But with every upgrade, I still hear a slightly difference between what my iPad directly into M-Scaler/DAVE sounds like compared to my wall-powered source although the difference kept getting smaller. I finally caved and asked Rob Watts for his opinion on the matter privately. And he suggested that I can try using the a USB-to-Toslink adaptor. And I happen to have an old Peachtree X1 lying around (which unfortunately cannot do >96kHz). So I tested it out and voila. It’s a bit of a nuisance to have to downsample the >96kHz sources to 88kHz/96kHz but those are rare tracks for me.

So I would argue before getting Mola Mola Tambaqui or dCS Bartok (which are also switch-mode power supplies I think), try getting a decent (or even cheap Amazon) USB to Toslink converter first. In fact, I use the stock Toslink cable Chord provided (since the audiophile ones are often too big to plug into M-Scaler/DAVE).

 

[Ciggavelli]

So you may or may not have seen my comment on the “why” DC4 sounds better in that article on Audiophile Style. Is it the power supply? Or is it the minimization of ground loop leakage current? I see you already have EtherRegen and lots of other gear to reduce the leakage current.
I was tempted to buy the EtherRegen at some point and kept upgrading my source. Mostly because I wanted a source plugged into the wall, rather than a battery powered iPad/laptop. But with every upgrade, I still hear a slightly difference between what my iPad directly into M-Scaler/DAVE sounds like compared to my wall-powered source although the difference kept getting smaller. I finally caved and asked Rob Watts for his opinion on the matter privately. And he suggested that I can try using the a USB-to-Toslink adaptor. And I happen to have an old Peachtree X1 lying around (which unfortunately cannot do >96kHz). So I tested it out and voila. It’s a bit of a nuisance to have to downsample the >96kHz sources to 88kHz/96kHz but those are rare tracks for me.

So I would argue before getting Mola Mola Tambaqui or dCS Bartok (which are also switch-mode power supplies I think), try getting a decent (or even cheap Amazon) USB to Toslink converter first. In fact, I use the stock Toslink cable Chord provided (since the audiophile ones are often too big to plug into M-Scaler/DAVE).

Interesting....I’m going to pick up a USB to Toslink tomorrow after doing some research. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[MatW]

@ray-dude ‘s review of the DC4 external power supply for his DAVE is pretty great

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...-sound-application-pgi-tt-7-part-1-of-2-r973/

I’m so undecided on what to do next, regarding my dac. Do I use the DC4 on my DAVE and m-scaler, or do I buy a Mola Mola Tambaqui? Or should I be trying for the dCS dacs?

I wish I could audition them all, but that’s really not likely where I live and during Covid times.

I guess I’ll just stick to reading up on all these dac trends

Maybe just be happy with the great setup you've currently got?

 

[thePhones]

After I wrote my previous post, I began scrolling through my favorited TIDAL albums in Audirvana+ only to discover that about 1/4th of them have been replaced by MQA versions. In all of those instances TIDAL appears to no longer list a standard version of the album that can be manually selected. I cancelled my TIDAL subscription upon seeing this and its one of the many reasons I have not made significant investments into streaming audio which is down a dirt road. I didn’t expect MQA to be so aggressive in retroactively working through the TIDAL catalog. Very disappointing they don’t give users a choice.

The first few days of testing tidal streaming I found that it wasn't sounding as good as my HDtracks downloads and cd rips so I cancelled the test period after only 3 days or so.
After that I tried Qobuz and could't here a difference to my own collection. You only have a limited choice in albums but I really like the extra possibility of exploration of music and also buy albums that I really like. Qubuz streams in flac without any dsp (as far as I know), so no loudness normalization and so on...
Also if your main focus is classic and jazz then Qubuz is a good option. But still I like the feeling of owning my favorite music and I endet up buying more because I found such lovely albums on Qobuz.

 

[Roasty]

Posted this on the wavelight thread too..

comparing the Rockna Wavelight and the mscaler/Dave combo.

Both playing from the same Roon endpoint. Both playing the same songs, started at exactly the same time. XLR into inputs 1 and 2 on my wa33. So to change between the two dacs, I just flick the input selector switch (takes a split second..)

44.1khz into the rockna dac (innuos phoenix, Singxer su-6, i2s to rockna)
705.6khz from mscaler into Dave
Volume matched as close as I could get it (volume knob unchanged on the wa33, volume adjusted to near equal using the dac pre amp).

I am finding it nearly impossible to make out any difference at all.. If I was pressed to say, perhaps a super slight tinge more low end and slam on the Rockna, and a slight tinge more air/separation with the chord combo. But that's it. Can't make out any difference anywhere else..

Differences in setup with xlr and usb cables, and rockna setup has su-6 and i2s connection + innuos phoenix.

 

[Amberlamps]

After I wrote my previous post, I began scrolling through my favorited TIDAL albums in Audirvana+ only to discover that about 1/4th of them have been replaced by MQA versions. In all of those instances TIDAL appears to no longer list a standard version of the album that can be manually selected. I cancelled my TIDAL subscription upon seeing this and its one of the many reasons I have not made significant investments into streaming audio which is down a dirt road. I didn’t expect MQA to be so aggressive in retroactively working through the TIDAL catalog. Very disappointing they don’t give users a choice.

Atleast they got replaced with mqa versions, most of my qobuz playlists have loads of “track unavailable” next to them. They have totally ruined many a playlist, especially ones that are made up with entire albums in them.

One day they are there, the next they are not. That seems to sum up my musical experience these last few years, a broken TT2 and stolen music, meh w.t.f

alt.bin can be your saviour.

 

[iDesign]

Atleast they got replaced with mqa versions, most of my qobuz playlists have loads of “track unavailable” next to them. They have totally ruined many a playlist, especially ones that are made up with entire albums in them.

One day they are there, the next they are not. That seems to sum up my musical experience these last few years, a broken TT2 and stolen music, meh w.t.f

alt.bin can be your saviour.

I’d prefer TIDAL add a “track unavailable MQA” option and ditch their tech.