CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Ciggavelli]

Chord and Rob have always been very clear that the SMPS inside Dave measures extremely well and say there is no need or advantage in changing to an external LPS.

Having said that, I have had the Sean Jacobs DC4 powering my Dave for about a year now. The sound is just divine. There are now quite a few of us using the DC4 for the Dave around the world and I am not aware of any who have not been completely bowled over by the sound. I personally would probably go for the DC4 before adding an Mscaler, it is that good. I say this in full knowledge of what Rob has said about LPS but it is me listening to the DC4 Dave and really at the end of it that is all that counts for me.

On my journey to deciding to go with the DC4, I first tried taking the SMPS out of the Dave and putting it in an external box. That did help the sound to be a bit smoother. I also tried only powering the analogue circuits with DC4 and having the digital circuit powered with the SMPS, also the other way around ie digital with DC4 and analogue with SMPS, and neither were anywhere as good to my ears as using DC4 for both the digital and analogue boards in the Dave.

As to the risks, the voltage output from the DC4 is very stable and is extremely unlikely to supply an overvoltage which might damage Dave. Remember that Sean's power supplies are inside the Innuos Statement which sells for more than Dave and Innuos have no qualms about using his LPS throught their range including the Statement. However, if the thought of using a third party power supply with the Dave is likely to give one sleepless nights then I would say this is not for you, do not even think about it and leave it for the rest of us because Rob will say there is nothing to be gained and Chord will say the warranty is voided etc etc. However, my Dave has been powered on 24/7 by the DC4 for almost a year with no issues and in my mind the risk is so close to zero that I don't even think about it.

The conversion is just a matter of unplugging the SMPS and plugging in the supplied umbilical to the external DC4 having taken the top off the Dave. This is fully reversible so it leaves behind no sign of ever having been there if it is removed. Be aware though that the DC4 is big and heavy! (45cm x 30cm x 12cm). And of course there is the cost which is substantial - £4400, (6000 USD for North America) but having heard it and having weighed up the extra enjoyment I get from my system I put it in the value for money category.

Thanks for all of the detailed info! I think I'm going to make a purchase at the beginning of the year. I can't wait to hear the improvements

 

[saudio7]

DC4 is rally expensive for me, I will have to look for some black Friday offer etc. for the possibility to buy it.

 

[audio_1]

Thanks for all of the detailed info! I think I'm going to make a purchase at the beginning of the year. I can't wait to hear the improvements

Let us know how you get on. For me a good power cord, and mains conditioner transformed Dave. Roughly the same cost as the Sean Jacobs DC4. My power amps are also powered from it. I would get a DC4 if I was confident of further improvement.

 

[stemiki]

And so a few days ago I pulled the trigger to buy DAVE!

Happy Holidays!

 

[Triode User]

And so a few days ago I pulled the trigger to buy DAVE!

Happy Holidays!

Excellent. You will not regret it. Ever.

 

[TheAttorney]

Be aware though that the DC4 is big and heavy! (45cm x 30cm x 12cm). And of course there is the cost which is substantial - £4400, (6000 USD for North America).

It's that size and weight that most worries me in my downsizing ambition. It basically means having to reserve an entire hifi shelf for just the power supply. Which is why I'm considering what I call the DC3+, which is the smaller DC3 enclosure loaded with as many DC4 components as will fit (as a special order that needs discussion with SJ) . In particular, the DC4 regulators and top capacitors. But you can cherry pick a variety of options depending on how much you're prepared to spend.

The transformer will probably be smaller than the DC4's and some other goodies probably wouldn't fit, so it can never be exactly equal to a DC4, but it's a way of closing the considerable gap between DC3 and DC4 in both price and performance. Bearing in mind that DAVE doesn't consume much power, the DC3 transformer is already massively oversized in theory. I know that others have such upgraded DC3's, but I don't know if anyone's done the 3-rail version that is required for DAVE.

This would still be a big step for me to take and I'm not rushing to take it.

EDIT: Can anyone comment if such a power supply would particularly help DAVE better manage inefficient and hard-to-drive headphones such as Susvara or TC?

 

[doraymon]

And so a few days ago I pulled the trigger to buy DAVE!

Happy Holidays!

Non te ne pentirai!
"Buckle up Dorothy, cause Kansas is going bye bye..."

 

[doraymon]

Back on the topic of my new Omega CAMs connected to the RCA out of the Dave, with volume @-15dB I'm getting peaks of 75dB SPL in my nearfield setup (4ft between speakers and listening position).
I never needed to increase volume above -10dB to get plenty of satisfaction.
At night time, wife and kids sleeping, a light breeze of jazz @-25dB volume makes for a perfect soul massage...
Truly fantastic experience with this combo and I'm about to experiment my first room treatment in a few days.
I hope this project will keep my wallet closed for a few months at least

EDIT
Other comments regarding this experience, a bit OT sorry but had to share with someone: moving from headphones to speakers I rediscovered the emotion of feeling the soundstage depth and the "physicality" of feeling the bass in your chest. Sorry, I can't find other words to describe it, I hope it makes sense.

 

[Triode User]

It's that size and weight that most worries me in my downsizing ambition. It basically means having to reserve an entire hifi shelf for just the power supply. Which is why I'm considering what I call the DC3+, which is the smaller DC3 enclosure loaded with as many DC4 components as will fit (as a special order that needs discussion with SJ) . In particular, the DC4 regulators and top capacitors. But you can cherry pick a variety of options depending on how much you're prepared to spend.

The transformer will probably be smaller than the DC4's and some other goodies probably wouldn't fit, so it can never be exactly equal to a DC4, but it's a way of closing the considerable gap between DC3 and DC4 in both price and performance. Bearing in mind that DAVE doesn't consume much power, the DC3 transformer is already massively oversized in theory. I know that others have such upgraded DC3's, but I don't know if anyone done the 3-rail version that is required for DAVE.

This would still be a big step for me to take and I'm not rushing to take it.

EDIT: Can anyone comment if such a power supply would particularly help DAVE better manage inefficient and hard-to-drive headphones such as Susvara or TC?

If you get the DC4 rectification and regulation boards then the only difference will be the DC3 transformer and I would then say the final build then is more like a DC4 minus rather than a DC3 plus. I have run one of these against a full spec DC4 and can confirm that you get most of the full fat DC4 sound.

As to your question about driving those headphones, I think the DC4 current delivery is better than DC3 but you are best to ask SJ on that. Even so of course it cannot magically make current delivery or extra power where it doesn’t exist in the Dave. Also bear in mind that in any case the current delivery from the factory fitted SMPS is more than adequate for the Dave.

 

[onlychild]

EDIT: Can anyone comment if such a power supply would particularly help DAVE better manage inefficient and hard-to-drive headphones such as Susvara or TC?

I have a DC4, Dave and Susvaras. The power supply does not make the Dave drive the Susvaras any better.

What it does do is stop the SMPS of the DAVE from bleeding noise into your other equipment since it’s now replaced with a very good linear power supply (DC4). This in turn allows you to not have to turn the volume up as high since the noise floor has dropped significantly regardless of what is plugged into DAVE. Dropping the noise floor as much as the DC4 does improves every aspect of the sound.

Susvaras shine with a good amp (period).

 

[muski]

Chord and Rob have always been very clear that the SMPS inside Dave measures extremely well and say there is no need or advantage in changing to an external LPS.

Having said that, I have had the Sean Jacobs DC4 powering my Dave for about a year now. The sound is just divine. There are now quite a few of us using the DC4 for the Dave around the world and I am not aware of any who have not been completely bowled over by the sound. I personally would probably go for the DC4 before adding an Mscaler, it is that good. I say this in full knowledge of what Rob has said about LPS but it is me listening to the DC4 Dave and really at the end of it that is all that counts for me.

On my journey to deciding to go with the DC4, I first tried taking the SMPS out of the Dave and putting it in an external box. That did help the sound to be a bit smoother. I also tried only powering the analogue circuits with DC4 and having the digital circuit powered with the SMPS, also the other way around ie digital with DC4 and analogue with SMPS, and neither were anywhere as good to my ears as using DC4 for both the digital and analogue boards in the Dave.

As to the risks, the voltage output from the DC4 is very stable and is extremely unlikely to supply an overvoltage which might damage Dave. Remember that Sean's power supplies are inside the Innuos Statement which sells for more than Dave and Innuos have no qualms about using his LPS throught their range including the Statement. However, if the thought of using a third party power supply with the Dave is likely to give one sleepless nights then I would say this is not for you, do not even think about it and leave it for the rest of us because Rob will say there is nothing to be gained and Chord will say the warranty is voided etc etc. However, my Dave has been powered on 24/7 by the DC4 for almost a year with no issues and in my mind the risk is so close to zero that I don't even think about it.

The conversion is just a matter of unplugging the SMPS and plugging in the supplied umbilical to the external DC4 having taken the top off the Dave. This is fully reversible so it leaves behind no sign of ever having been there if it is removed. Be aware though that the DC4 is big and heavy! (45cm x 30cm x 12cm). And of course there is the cost which is substantial - £4400, (6000 USD for North America) but having heard it and having weighed up the extra enjoyment I get from my system I put it in the value for money category.

Thanks for your informative post. Any thoughts on the 2-output DC4?

I was hoping I could power both DAVE and M Scaler.

Cheers,
muski

 

[onlychild]

Thanks for your informative post. Any thoughts on the 2-output DC4?

I was hoping I could power both DAVE and M Scaler.

Cheers,
muski

I had a two output DC3 and Sean Jacobos no longer suggests one as the noise from the Mscaler bleeds into the DAVE. I might have had the only one made.

 

[Glossator]

I had a two output DC3 and Sean Jacobos no longer suggests one as the noise from the Mscaler bleeds into the DAVE. I might have had the only one made.

Just to second this. I asked Sean to take just the two output approach suggested - albeit for HMS and both sides of Opto Dx bridge and it was not a success. Various fiddling about including with a battery identified what was happening. Sean kindly reconfigured my DC3 to a single output - which with a bit more jiggery pokery (unfortunately in wallet terms involving a second DC3) solved the problem. Working fantastically on a stand alone basis (although currently DAVE as stock). I would guess a two output DC4 would be fine for HMS and Opto DX out.

 

[sm60]

Generally I refrain from mods that change the internal circuitry like power supply design. Gifted designers like Rob Watts know what they are doing. The probability that some third party design could improve the sound is a bit remote. It’s like the various mods offered on Sony SACD players or Oppo Blu Ray players. These companies have very gifted designers in their employ who have decades of experience at what they do. I’m not saying that an external power supply to the Dave doesn’t change the sound. It certainly might. But it’s not the sound that Chord intended in the original design. For example, if you took one of Chord’s switch mode power amplifiers and replaced the power supply. You have a different unit and not one that the designers intended you to hear. The switch mode is integral to the Chord sound. A linear power supply might have an entirely different sound. You might very well prefer the linear supply, but that’s not what Chord designed. At this point, the design is no longer a Chord, just like a modded Sony SACD player is no longer what the designers intended.

 

[onlychild]

Generally I refrain from mods that change the internal circuitry like power supply design. Gifted designers like Rob Watts know what they are doing. The probability that some third party design could improve the sound is a bit remote. It’s like the various mods offered on Sony SACD players or Oppo Blu Ray players. These companies have very gifted designers in their employ who have decades of experience at what they do. I’m not saying that an external power supply to the Dave doesn’t change the sound. It certainly might. But it’s not the sound that Chord intended in the original design. For example, if you took one of Chord’s switch mode power amplifiers and replaced the power supply. You have a different unit and not one that the designers intended you to hear. The switch mode is integral to the Chord sound. A linear power supply might have an entirely different sound. You might very well prefer the linear supply, but that’s not what Chord designed. At this point, the design is no longer a Chord, just like a modded Sony SACD player is no longer what the designers intended.

Not necessarily. Designers also have to stay within a budget when designing their components. You can't build a Dave for $10k when the power supply alone will cost $4k.