[Crgreen]

It is absolutely tragic the way that this thread has become about ferrites and cables and voodoo as opposed to the Blu2 and DAVE.

What are they?

I thought this was the ferrite fantasy forum.

 

[marcmccalmont]

It is absolutely tragic the way that this thread has become about ferrites and cables and voodoo as opposed to the Blu2 and DAVE.

More a testament to Dave’s resolution that subtle reductions in noise here and there are audible. Why not share noise reduction findings whether ferrites, vibration isolation or line conditioning on this forum?

 

[AndrewOld]

More a testament to Dave’s resolution that subtle reductions in noise here and there are audible. Why not share noise reduction findings whether ferrites, vibration isolation or line conditioning on this forum?

Noise is measurable. Do share your measurements.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Noise is measurable. Do share your measurements.[/QUOTE

Noise is measurable. Do share your measurements.

First is at the wall the second is after line conditioning and ferrites on power cords

 

[AndrewOld]

In what way does that affect the noise in the audible band coming out of a DAVE? Or even noise outside the audio band at the analogue outputs of the DAVE? Show me a single measurement of a DAVE that reflects the effects you claim?

The meter you show in your picture is claimed to measure the effects of reducing electro pollution in the home. The makers claim that electropollution can “cause cancer, asthma, sleep issues, fatigue, skin rashes and tingling sensations, allergy symptoms, headaches, muscle and joint pain, brain fog, memory loss, ADHD symptoms, depression, and more.”

Have you noticed a reduction in any of these symptoms in yourself?

 

[AndrewOld]

mispost.

 

[rgs9200m]

Has anyone compared the Blu-Dave system against some of the more exotic very high end DAC systems like the dCs Rossini or Puccini stacks or the EMM DA2 or the top Esoterics (the D02x and D05x) or others like this?

Some of these have truly crazy asking prices, but they do come up used sometimes at decent prices after they are out for a while.

One thing I note is that you can (sometimes) get these as a one-box solution (or with the dCs Rossini as a neatly stacked DAC and Clock unit that is just like a single box as far as desktop real estate is concerned).

So no extra cables needed either.

With a BluDave + extra cables at, say, north of $20,000 street price (even with a used DAVE), the prices can be comparable to these high end units.

I haven't actually seen much written about these types of comparisons, and I was thinking that Blu-Dave users may have considered these other options.

 

[marcmccalmont]

I

In what way does that affect the noise in the audible band coming out of a DAVE? Or even noise outside the audio band at the analogue outputs of the DAVE? Show me a single measurement of a DAVE that reflects the effects you claim?

The meter you show in your picture is claimed to measure the effects of reducing electro pollution in the home. The makers claim that electropollution can “cause cancer, asthma, sleep issues, fatigue, skin rashes and tingling sensations, allergy symptoms, headaches, muscle and joint pain, brain fog, memory loss, ADHD symptoms, depression, and more.”

Have you noticed a reduction in any of these symptoms in yourself?

I believe they market the meter to promote their emi filters which I’m not using I’m using a well respected Zero Surge line filter Not sure why your on such a negative rant today I just posted a picture of my system and my observations by listening. Not sure how many headfiers have the money or have the expertise to use the sensitive equipment needed , I don’t I’m using the method posted by Rob Watts if the hf’s are smoother and the depth is increasing I’m reducing rf? Please do what you want but my time is too valuable to participate in an Internet argument. I’m sure if my friend who is a Bell Labs engineer ( who I take advice from) showed you measurements from a Audio Precision you would find fault in his method so like I said above not interested in an Internet argument

 

[rayl]

Has anyone compared the Blu-Dave system against some of the more exotic very high end DAC systems like the dCs Rossini or Puccini stacks or the EMM DA2 or the top Esoterics (the D02x and D05x) or others like this?

Some of these have truly crazy asking prices, but they do come up used sometimes at decent prices.

or MSB.... either the truly high end select or the "lower" end premier --- which is in the Blu2+DAVE price range...

I debated holding off to audition a premier (which was rumored as of late last year but came out this spring) before jumping onto Blu2 train -- but of course, given I already had a DAVE, the marginal cost would've been quite a bit more plus hassle of reselling. So, Blu2 it was. Very happy but have never personally compared against MSB nor heard of others who have.

 

[AndrewOld]

I

I believe they market the meter to promote their emi filters which I’m not using I’m using a well respected Zero Surge line filter Not sure why your on such a negative rant today I just posted a picture of my system and my observations by listening. Not sure how many headfiers have the money or have the expertise to use the sensitive equipment needed , I don’t I’m using the method posted by Rob Watts if the hf’s are smoother and the depth is increasing I’m reducing rf? Please do what you want but my time is too valuable to participate in an Internet argument. I’m sure if my friend who is a Bell Labs engineer ( who I take advice from) showed you measurements from a Audio Precision you would find fault in his method so like I said above not interested in an Internet argument

If your friend who is a Bell Labs engineer showed me measurements from an Audio Precision that could demonstrate any effects on the outputs of a DAVE by putting ferrites on every cable in your house I would respect him. Why don’t you ask him if he can?

Rob advocated using specific ferrites in a very specific, principled way to reduce transmitted RF. Now they are being advocated to encase every cable in a system - mains, USB, interconnects, whatever. You use a meter that shows the reduction in radiated EMI not transmitted RF to justify your use. Doesn’t make sense to me. And when the people that sell the meter you use claim that using their products and reducing radiated EMI can fix depression, cancer and ADHD then I quite simply say they are talking nonsense. Making such claims in the U.K. is illegal by the way.

The reason that the ferrite nonsense and £1650 cable nonsense annoys me is that neither seems to involve much sound engineering or measurement. The Blu2 and DAVE involve a huge amount of state of the art engineering, design expertise and manufacturing expertise. It would be great to see the thread return to the products rather than the wire connecting them.

 

[Crgreen]

If your friend who is a Bell Labs engineer showed me measurements from an Audio Precision that could demonstrate any effects on the outputs of a DAVE by putting ferrites on every cable in your house I would respect him. Why don’t you ask him if he can?

Rob advocated using specific ferrites in a very specific, principled way to reduce transmitted RF. Now they are being advocated to encase every cable in a system - mains, USB, interconnects, whatever. You use a meter that shows the reduction in radiated EMI not transmitted RF to justify your use. Doesn’t make sense to me. And when the people that sell the meter you use claim that using their products and reducing radiated EMI can fix depression, cancer and ADHD then I quite simply say they are talking nonsense. Making such claims in the U.K. is illegal by the way.

The reason that the ferrite nonsense and £1650 cable nonsense annoys me is that neither seems to involve much sound engineering or measurement. The Blu2 and DAVE involve a huge amount of state of the art engineering, design expertise and manufacturing expertise. It would be great to see the thread return to the products rather than the wire connecting them.

The people who talk about those things and their findings are quite clear: they test primarily by ear. I don’t think a bunch of hifi hobbyists can claim to have the kind of audio engineering expertise that Rob has, and it’s unrealistic to ask them for measurements. Their claims are simple — they say that they can/cannot hear a difference. The only way of verifying this is to try oneself.

Since the Blu2 is now over a year old, I suspect there’s not a great deal more that anyone has got to say about it that would qualify as new, so it’s inevitable that the forum will either go quiet, move on to related issues, which eventually will sound repetitious, or simply repeat demands for a stand alone m-scaler, which should be cheaper than the Blu2. Obviously, if you have something new and exciting to tell us about the Blu2, I’m sure there’d be a lot of interest.

 

[marcmccalmont]

If your friend who is a Bell Labs engineer showed me measurements from an Audio Precision that could demonstrate any effects on the outputs of a DAVE by putting ferrites on every cable in your house I would respect him. Why don’t you ask him if he can?

I think we are more interested in the effects of RF on the sound coming out of our speakers not just the signal coming out of Dave, but that would be a good place to start. Speaker cables are radiating antennas ground issues with power amps etc so I've taken his advice on most items. He ended up with a Project CD transport and a Hugo2 vs a Blu2 Dave as his primary source is LP on a SME 30 / accuphase head amp system. He did audition and test the Blu2/Dave in his system but preferred the Hugo2. This was before Rob posted about Blu2's PFGA noise issue so it was not optimized. He also recommended the CA cables between Blu2 and Dave as he got the best PRaT from them, might be because they come with 2 ferrites?

Rob advocated using specific ferrites in a very specific, principled way to reduce transmitted RF. Now they are being advocated to encase every cable in a system - mains, USB, interconnects, whatever. You use a meter that shows the reduction in radiated EMI not transmitted RF to justify your use. Doesn’t make sense to me. And when the people that sell the meter you use claim that using their products and reducing radiated EMI can fix depression, cancer and ADHD then I quite simply say they are talking nonsense. Making such claims in the U.K. is illegal by the way.

I also tried the Fair Rite 61's which Rob suggested in a PM, I found these to be as or more effective than the Wurths and less costly. No one is advocating HF ferrites for other applications, most are using lower frequency broadband ferrites on digital cables and power cords. Everything that I have read ferrites do make a shield more effective so I tried an experiment I bought a low cost handheld meter and a bunch of topnisus lf ferrites (cheap) and put them on Daves power cord not 1 or 2 but 20 or so. The radiated energy is much reduced (according to my cheap meter) and I heard a difference, smoother not fatiguing sound. Forget about the claims of the greenwave meter I bought it to see if the power conditioners reduced emi/rfi it does. I'm sure radiation from high tension powerline can effect ones health but the emi/rfi in a house? BTW the greenwave filters are not UL approved so that tells you something. I hope the meter is wired corectly and it is showing a reduction in emi/rfi not an increase?. The Zero Surge I bought on my friends recommendation as it was properly tested in Bell Labs emi/rfi room and is effective.

The reason that the ferrite nonsense and £1650 cable nonsense annoys me is that neither seems to involve much sound engineering or measurement. The Blu2 and DAVE involve a huge amount of state of the art engineering, design expertise and manufacturing expertise. It would be great to see the thread return to the products rather than the wire connecting them.

If your friend who is a Bell Labs engineer showed me measurements from an Audio Precision that could demonstrate any effects on the outputs of a DAVE by putting ferrites on every cable in your house I would respect him. Why don’t you ask him if he can?

Not sure he would do that but I'll ask, He does use a Zero Surge and PS powerplant in his system and he has explained the mechanism for a ferrite to inprove the shielding of a coax cable and he did recommend the CA cables and explained why they are effective from a technical perspective.

Rob advocated using specific ferrites in a very specific, principled way to reduce transmitted RF. Now they are being advocated to encase every cable in a system - mains, USB, interconnects, whatever. You use a meter that shows the reduction in radiated EMI not transmitted RF to justify your use. Doesn’t make sense to me. And when the people that sell the meter you use claim that using their products and reducing radiated EMI can fix depression, cancer and ADHD then I quite simply say they are talking nonsense. Making such claims in the U.K. is illegal by the way.

I'm using the Fair Rite 61's in the specific application Rob suggested which is the ground plane noise generated by Blu2's FPGA between instructions.

The reason that the ferrite nonsense and £1650 cable nonsense annoys me is that neither seems to involve much sound engineering or measurement. The Blu2 and DAVE involve a huge amount of state of the art engineering, design expertise and manufacturing expertise. It would be great to see the thread return to the products rather than the wire connecting them.

But the CA cables are based on sound engineering and the use of ferrites on coax cable shields is sound engineering and ferrites over power cables shield is sound engineering. No doubt Blu2 and Dave are remarkable feats of engineering that's why getting noise in your system and ground noise down is audible if they were your average dac with 18 bit performance and an analog output with a s/n ratio equivalent to 16 bits performance the difference would be "lost in the noise"!!! Why shouldn't the thread be about getting the most out of Blu2/Dave? if it were a Toyota forum and you posted improved handling with Bilstein shocks and Michelin tires would you deride the poster because he didn't do a road and track style test at a race track? no you'd take the post for what its worth one persons experience and when you read a couple of dozen positive posts you might go for the Bilsteins and Michelin's you wouldn'n post a complaint this forum has gone off track we should be discussing Toyotas not shocks and tires! Try 20 topnisus ferrites on your power cord before you jump in my nickers!

 

[marcmccalmont]

or MSB.... either the truly high end select or the "lower" end premier --- which is in the Blu2+DAVE price range...

I debated holding off to audition a premier (which was rumored as of late last year but came out this spring) before jumping onto Blu2 train -- but of course, given I already had a DAVE, the marginal cost would've been quite a bit more plus hassle of reselling. So, Blu2 it was. Very happy but have never personally compared against MSB nor heard of others who have.

I have not had the opportunity to do the comparison but a friend of mine has listened to the best at shows and at dealers and his opinion is that the expensive DACs do sound good but if your metric is live unamplified music the Chords are superior. So with that I'm not wanting or second guessing my purchase.

In what way does that affect the noise in the audible band coming out of a DAVE? Or even noise outside the audio band at the analogue outputs of the DAVE? Show me a single measurement of a DAVE that reflects the effects you claim?

The meter you show in your picture is claimed to measure the effects of reducing electro pollution in the home. The makers claim that electropollution can “cause cancer, asthma, sleep issues, fatigue, skin rashes and tingling sensations, allergy symptoms, headaches, muscle and joint pain, brain fog, memory loss, ADHD symptoms, depression, and more.”

Have you noticed a reduction in any of these symptoms in yourself?

just to be clear I bought the meter to verify the line conditioning and power cord ferrites are having a positive effect I’m not too concerned with hemroids in my head or other places (headroids?)!!!!!

 

[Triode User]

You use a meter that shows the reduction in radiated EMI not transmitted RF to justify your use. Doesn’t make sense to me.

Well it wouldn't make sense to you because you betray your lack of knowledge at every turn. The meter that you saw in the photos does not measure radiated EMI, it measures online EMI through power sources eg mains. It is actually surprisingly accurate and I have one which I use to sort out EMI on mains supplies.

The reason that the ferrite nonsense and £1650 cable nonsense annoys me is that neither seems to involve much sound engineering or measurement. The Blu2 and DAVE involve a huge amount of state of the art engineering, design expertise and manufacturing expertise. It would be great to see the thread return to the products rather than the wire connecting them.

Here you go again with your assumptions and half truths and personal attacks (as your '£1650 cable nonsense' comment was clearly aimed at me). Contrary to what you say, the ferrites on digital cables (not just me but many others including Rob Watts) is indeed based on very sound engineering practice. Are you lumping Rob's use of ferrites on cables in your same category of nonsense?

Please, please, please stop your random attacks on people who are doing stuff with their Blu2 and Dave. Remember after all that you have not got a Blu2 so your comments are somewhat limited in their validity.

 

[AndrewOld]

Well it wouldn't make sense to you because you betray your lack of knowledge at every turn. The meter that you saw in the photos does not measure radiated EMI, it measures online EMI through power sources eg mains. It is actually surprisingly accurate and I have one which I use to sort out EMI on mains supplies.



Here you go again with your assumptions and half truths and personal attacks (as your '£1650 cable nonsense' comment was clearly aimed at me). Contrary to what you say, the ferrites on digital cables (not just me but many others including Rob Watts) is indeed based on very sound engineering practice. Are you lumping Rob's use of ferrites on cables in your same category of nonsense?

Please, please, please stop your random attacks on people who are doing stuff with their Blu2 and Dave. Remember after all that you have not got a Blu2 so your comments are somewhat limited in their validity.

I am not attacking any person, let alone at random. I am questioning the value and the thinking behind encasing pretty much every single cable in a system with ferrites as marmcalmont has done. It is perfectly reasonable to ask people why they have done things, to ask what technical knowledge they have, and to challenge their assumptions. This is not a personal attack. Marcmcalmont has made it clear he has little technical knowledge, and importantly no useful measurements of the effects of his ferrite frenzy on the output of a DAVE. He certainly cannot show he has measurably reduced noise in his DAVE. The meter he displays does not measure anything at the end of any cable in his system. It is sold by a company who believe that using their mains filters can cure cancer, depression, ADHD and various allergies. This is a ludicrous claim. Rob Watts advocates using ferrites on one particular signal path, to fix a particular issue. Not on every cable.

Indeed the people who are putting ferrites on the mains cables of a Blu2/DAVE are, to me, attacking Rob Watts and the DAVE, as they are implying he has done a bad job with his mains filtering and power supplies.

And as for challenging the value of your cables I am perfectly entitled to regard them as absurdly overpriced. Don't take it personally, I am not attacking you, I am challenging the value of the cable. Explain why your cables cost more than a Hugo2 excl. VAT and I'll change my mind. Show us some convincing measurements and I'll change my mind. Drop the price to £165 and I'll change my mind.