[mjperk]

First of all, thanks to everyone on this great forum that has offered me help in a few other previous posts. I've never seen such a warm community of people with great experience and opinions, so thanks for sharing and going easy on this noob. I feel like I'm getting closer to solving my debacle, but am not quite there. I also realize that there have been many posts pertaining to this sort of thing, but after having read through many of them I do not know that they directly answer my questions. I apologize in advance for this long post but feel it is necessary to help communicate what I'm really after.
 
So let me just say that I am in search of a new set of phones. I started with a list of many, many options that looked good and have it narrowed down to a "few" that stood out to me. While listening to them directly would be a great thing that I'd love to do, I live in an area that does not have a lot of electronics stores or places that carry most if any of these models. So with that, all of my searching has so far resulted to the internet as well as having listened to one or two sets of cans that my friends own.
 
Current Equipment
My current setup is an Aune T1 MKII amp that has been modified. I use a Fiio X5 (gen I) as the player. My first set of decent phones ever was a pair of Sony MDR-V6's. I have been using Audio Technica ATH-M50x's for about a year and a half now, and would say they are my primary set.
 
Listening Habbits
As far as what I listen to on an everyday basis it really is a little bit of everything. In an effort to give you some idea of what types of stuff I like and if I had to quantify it I'd say that generally my listening habits are:
Rock - 45% of the time - example artists: Blink 182, Linkin Park, Queen, Avenged Sevenfold, Muse, Awolnation, Black Keys
Electronic - 25% of the time - example artists: Krewella, Daft Punk, Skrillex, Nero, 
Pop - 10% of the time -  example artists: Madonna, Lady Gaga
Classical - 5% of the time - example artists: Mozart
Folk/acoustic - 5% of the time - example artists: Avett Brothers
World - 10% of the time - Rodrigo y Gabriela, Taraf de Haidouks, Kocani Orkestar, Shantel
 
Desires
Having ready many reviews on phones, I'm sure many of you know that they tend to sometimes focus on how neutral they are. That is what I used to originally start searching, but the more I think about it the more I am not sure it matters to me. I am not monitoring a recording in a studio and listen only for fun. My equalizer is generally set to flat, but that doesn't mean that I like flat listening. In fact, I find that I prefer
Bass: Tight with a slight emphasis, but not if it trades for tightness and control
Mids: Strong and transparent
Highs: Detailed and stronger than neutral, but not over emphasized
 
I find that my M50x's (with a neutral equalizer) do have that slight bass boost I desire but perhaps lack in transparency at some frequencies. I recently listened to a coworker's pair of DT 770's and had some interesting observations. In the spirit of giving you an idea of what I'm looking for, I think it might be worthwhile to explain my perception of those versus my set of M50x's.
 
My perception is that overall, the 770's are more clear than my current headphones. They are also much more neutral, and flat. The 770's have better clarity in the upper range, but lack bass  response. When I turned the volume up on the piano piece I was listening to, I could clearly hear the piano hammer hitting the string--something I could just barely make out on my current set. I also found that the 770's had such pronounced high's that the "s" sounds of the singers were almost lispy and were quite distracting--as if they were hissing with every "s" sound. I didn't like it. 
 
Another interesting thing I noticed is that my M50x's have a pretty consistent sound stage throughout all volume ranges. The 770's sounded pretty hollow and twangy at low volume, and they only started to sound great (better than my set) when I turned the volume up to medium-high. Lastly, I noticed that the 770's seem to have low level hum that is more noticeable than my M50x's. That is, when you turn the volume up to equal loudness between the 770's and my phones, there is a much more noticeable "hum" present in the 770's. I wouldn't call it bad, but the M50x's win there.
 
Needs
I don't know exactly what I want, but here's what I do know that these headphones MUST satisfy.
-Over ear design
-$300 would be perfect, $400 is doable, and $500 would only be for a truly perfect set that I couldn't live without
-Tight bass
-No muddy sounds anywhere
-Better performance than my current set of phones
 
Contender
Having read many reviews now and narrowed down my list, here are the primary headphones that seem like they might be a good fit (and in my price range), in no specific order, along with the best price I've found from a reliable source for a new set.
HifiMan HE-400s ($250)
Reviews would lead me to believe that these are sub-par performers that simply boast the planar title. Reviewers constantly agree that these phones only become competitive with others on my list once you upgrade the pads. They have marginal ratings on both Amazon (4.3) and this forum, and as such seem to be a bit of a wild card.
 
HifiMan HE-400i ($445)
-I don't hear a lot of compelling evidence that this modest upgrade from the S model is worth the significant extra cost, which is already more than I want to spend. I've also read that after the earpad upgrade to the S model that these probably aren't worth it.
 
AKG 712 ($275)
-AKG seems to foster much love for a more budget-minded person, but generally doesn't seem to rank as highly as other brands. The 4.5 rating on Amazon is decent enough, but the 4.23 rating from Head-Fi makes me pause. I am also not convinced that these are a true upgrade from my current set.
 
Shure SRH 1440 ($215)
-I do not have much experience with Shure, which is probably my big hesitation. The phones have a 4.8 rating from Amazon, but only a 4.00 rating from this site (only 3 scores though). They are a bit of a wild card to me.
 
Beyerdynamic 990 Pro ($185)
-My father owns this set and I recall being impressed when I first hear them. However I was listening to his music and didn't have my headphones laying around for comparison. Given my less than overwhelming experience with the 770's, I am hesitant that these are what I'm looking for.
 
Beyerdynamic 1350 ($190)
-Same general comments as with the 990's.
 
Sennheiser HD600 ($330)
-Many people seem to regard these as better than the 650's, but they also seem to justify it with the fact that they are more neutral which isn't necessarily what I'm looking for. They also don't seem to be known for their bass.
 
Sennheiser HD650 ($405)
-I was leaning towards this set of phones given the reviewers saying they were a bit bassy and darker than the HD600's, but the fact that they have a reputation for being more muddy makes me pause when I consider the $400 price tag.
 
Audio Technica ATH-AD1000X ($290)
-Lack of experience with them makes me pause the most. They have a 3.9 rating on Amazon that also makes me question them.
 
Audio Technica ESW9A ($250)
-Same general comments as above in terms of lack of knowledge, although their 4.5 rating on Amazon inspires some confidence. Are these an upgrade from my current set, I don't know.
 
Fostex TH500RP ($330)
-They boast the planar thing again and are heralded on many sites, but they have limited and mediocre reviews on Amazon and Head-Fi. 
 
Fostex T50RP mk3 ($140)
-I read that these are planar, but for this price how can that be? They seem to be on the cheaper end of things and may be a good value, but are they better than my current set? Lots of people/companies seem to have modified variants based off of this set, so does that mean that they're just good for a starting point or that they NEED modding to really shine? I am not really interested in changing the next set of phones I get.
 
Philips Fidelio X1 ($220)
-This is the older version of these phones, but has MUCH better reviews. 4.8 on Head-Fi and 4.6 on Amazon? I don't know much about them but they seem to have a great reputation. I know they aren't being made anymore, so stock is limited.
 
Oppo PM-3 ($405)
-Another planar set with mixed reviews. 4.37 on Head-Fi and 4.9 on Amazon. They are the entry level set from Oppo, and the 400s debacle makes me question if this is a good idea. At $405, they are a nice chunk of change, so I'd want to be sure they are a big upgrade from what I have now.
 
 
 
 
So with all of that I'm hoping someone maybe has some input given my listening tastes. Can you recommend ones that definitely do not meet my criteria of that I'd most certainly be disappointed with? Any contenders that I didn't list and should consider? I'm open to any and all feedback!
 
Thanks 

 

[mjperk]

Anybody?

 

[Lorspeaker]

esw9a and dt1350 are ON EAR closed cans...
 
most of the cans u listed are OPEN cans...is that ok with your listening area, quiet?

 

[mjperk]

Hmmm, interesting. I made a spreadsheet of all my options and marked whether they are closed/open, on/over, etc. I guess I messed up the on/over part since I'm only interested in over-ear phones. Thanks for the catch. I guess that eliminates two options.
 
As far as open or closed, I have only ever had a lot of experience with closed but have listened to open and think they'd be a good option. I'll be around some other people, but it's not library quiet so as long as the open cans aren't like loudspeakers a little bit of noise is okay. That is, I should be in an area where there is a little ambient noise and where it is okay to make some noise as well, but I can't have a set that is extremely loud. I understand that is pretty subjective and hard to measure. I'd say for the sake of finding "the perfect set" I'm looking at all open back options.

 

[paradoxology]

Actually, the Fostex TH500RP have gotten very good reviews on other sites. At almost $700.00 they may have been a bit overpriced but at $330.00 they may be a bargain. I am trying to resist buying one, myself, because I really don't need another set of open headphones but, dang...
http://www.cnet.com/news/absolutely-sublime-fostex-th500rp-headphones/

 

[mjperk]

  Actually, the Fostex TH500RP have gotten very good reviews on other sites. At almost $700.00 they may have been a bit overpriced but at $330.00 they may be a bargain. I am trying to resist buying one, myself, because I really don't need another set of open headphones but, dang...
http://www.cnet.com/news/absolutely-sublime-fostex-th500rp-headphones/

 
Hmm, now I am trying to remember where I saw that price. Sometimes I'll go through Ebay, but ONLY if the seller has an established account, a lot of good feedback, and sells headphones on a normal basis (as opposed to just one set that they got from who knows where). I am wondering if that's where I saw it given the $700 price point you said. That much of a discount could be worrisome... Are these phones known for having fakes?

 

[Smugsie]

All headphones you mentioned are very good but each one will cater to different genres better. I will only recommend you headphones I've had for more than 500 hours or auditioned for at least 12 hours on multiple days.

Modern rock and Flamenco Rumba I tend to sound their best with fast and dry headphones to keep up with their nature. In which I recommend the AKG's that tend to emphasize electric guitars, acoustic guitars, make vocals sound upfront with relatively punchy bass with fast decay for double bass drums. AKG's tend to be a more active exciting headphone compared to the rest I mention below.

Classical sounds their best with Sennheiser HD598's, 600's, 650's. I've found their wide bass body, meaty, reverb-lingering presentation to go well with live orchestra-hall based music. Just don't expect too much out of the Sennheisers for their speed. Or try to go for the Sennheisers for female rock vocalists, as you might find they might have a too much relaxed presentation, I've heard you can fix this "veil" bit with better amplification and a cable upgrade. Though I've only had each of the Sennheisers for less than a week each and left them unmodded for refunds. 

Pop sounds their best with the HE-400i/planars and the Audio Technicas as these headphones cater to vocals. The Audio Technicas (Art Series) depending on the model, give female vocals a natural air that wraps itself in delicacy and fine wine. Whereas the HE-400i is a darker wine, worrying about raw detail, visceral bass punch and a sparkle at the top to balance off the strange dip that sucks out some presence with brass and string instruments. You can also use the HE-400i for rock but I found electric guitars and brass/string instruments to be a bit more laid back. The HE-400i I'd like to add sacrifices a lot of lower treble presence and soundstage for technical superiority (such as micro detail and excellent flat bass response) over the AKG's and Sennheisers.
 
It seems we share common music interests. My recommendation is to find the genre you like best, and hope this headphone might cater to future genres that you could potentially enjoy. I'm going to be a bit on the personal side here and I will say that once you upgrade your headphones, your preferences in artists may change. You will realize that some artists have their masterings done so that the treble is too splashy, bass drums not solid/fast enough, or vocals too bright. So it's best you invest in a lot of research, find a headphone you think sounds the best, stick with it for 200 hours and decide if that's the headphone you really want.

I have a bias here, and that I prefer bright headphones. There will be people who disagree with my review with each headphone but it's my gas, not theirs. So of course, YMMV.

 

[paradoxology]

   
Hmm, now I am trying to remember where I saw that price. Sometimes I'll go through Ebay, but ONLY if the seller has an established account, a lot of good feedback, and sells headphones on a normal basis (as opposed to just one set that they got from who knows where). I am wondering if that's where I saw it given the $700 price point you said. That much of a discount could be worrisome... Are these phones known for having fakes?

Sonicelectronix seems established and trustworthy. Worth a look.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291626091501?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[Lorspeaker]

I would be quite happy with the fostext40 or 50rp mk3...

And do grab a few pairs of $5monks....these are like open cans in a tiny package!

 

[mjperk]

  Sonicelectronix seems established and trustworthy. Worth a look.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291626091501?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Oh yeah. I've done business with them before and have always been happy. This is a pretty solid option it would seem then. Do you know much more about these phones or have personal knowledge on how they might stack up to some of the other options I did (or even didn't) list?
 
Thanks!

 

[mjperk]

  All headphones you mentioned are very good but each one will cater to different genres better. I will only recommend you headphones I've had for more than 500 hours or auditioned for at least 12 hours on multiple days.

Modern rock and Flamenco Rumba I tend to sound their best with fast and dry headphones to keep up with their nature. In which I recommend the AKG's that tend to emphasize electric guitars, acoustic guitars, make vocals sound upfront with relatively punchy bass with fast decay for double bass drums. AKG's tend to be a more active exciting headphone compared to the rest I mention below.

Classical sounds their best with Sennheiser HD598's, 600's, 650's. I've found their wide bass body, meaty, reverb-lingering presentation to go well with live orchestra-hall based music. Just don't expect too much out of the Sennheisers for their speed. Or try to go for the Sennheisers for female rock vocalists, as you might find they might have a too much relaxed presentation, I've heard you can fix this "veil" bit with better amplification and a cable upgrade. Though I've only had each of the Sennheisers for less than a week each and left them unmodded for refunds. 

Pop sounds their best with the HE-400i/planars and the Audio Technicas as these headphones cater to vocals. The Audio Technicas (Art Series) depending on the model, give female vocals a natural air that wraps itself in delicacy and fine wine. Whereas the HE-400i is a darker wine, worrying about raw detail, visceral bass punch and a sparkle at the top to balance off the strange dip that sucks out some presence with brass and string instruments. You can also use the HE-400i for rock but I found electric guitars and brass/string instruments to be a bit more laid back. The HE-400i I'd like to add sacrifices a lot of lower treble presence and soundstage for technical superiority (such as micro detail and excellent flat bass response) over the AKG's and Sennheisers.
 
It seems we share common music interests. My recommendation is to find the genre you like best, and hope this headphone might cater to future genres that you could potentially enjoy. I'm going to be a bit on the personal side here and I will say that once you upgrade your headphones, your preferences in artists may change. You will realize that some artists have their masterings done so that the treble is too splashy, bass drums not solid/fast enough, or vocals too bright. So it's best you invest in a lot of research, find a headphone you think sounds the best, stick with it for 200 hours and decide if that's the headphone you really want.

I have a bias here, and that I prefer bright headphones. There will be people who disagree with my review with each headphone but it's my gas, not theirs. So of course, YMMV.

 
Great stuff. Thanks for the thorough response. I suppose in a sense I am looking for the best all around performer given that I mentioned what styles I listened to and how often.
 
With the AKG's, do they stack up when listening to the genres I mentioned and listen to the most, like rock? I know you said it wasn't their strong suit, but are they vastly inferior, since I said I'd be listening to rock 45% of the time and electronic 25% of the time, or are we talking about a marginal difference? I do think in general, if I am interpreting correctly, that "fast decay" and "punchy" is somewhat synonymous with me saying I like tight, controlled bass. Fair? My second question is related to the model. The 712's are up there at the top and are the ones I chose based off of reviews and specs. Are they truly the best AKG has to offer for my criteria?
 
The comment with speed on the Sennheisers worries me. As as noob (and trying to reference the glossary of sound descriptions on this site) does that mean they are sloppy and inaccurate? What does that really imply? Saying they are "slow" has a negative connotation, so I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly. These were my front runners, but the more investigation I do the more I am not sure they are the ones. Your statements might support that. If there is any set at my local store that I can get my hands on I would guess it is a pair of HD600's. I'll see if they have them.
 
I fully appreciate what you're saying in the second to last paragraph and know that preferences vary wildly. I have already realized, after having upgraded to something above a cheap $10 pair, that artists can sound completely different and you start to hear things you didn't before. Also, as mentioned above, with listening to rock 45% of the time and electronic 25% of the time can you recommend what set you'd personally choose in this list or even not on it? Since these two are 70% of my listening, I figure that it makes sense to focus on a set that excels with these, and as you mentioned is decent with the remaining 30%. I am really am trying to be open to all input and admit that I narrowed down my initial list of 200+ option down to 20 by looking at specs and reviews. I also appreciate that specs aren't really telling of a set of phones and that maybe it wasn't fair--but hey, I had to start somewhere. Are any of the options above or that you can recommend (in my price range) that are a significant improvement over my M50x's for what I want to listen to? What I mean is that I'm not sure buying a $300 or $400 set of phones will be worth it if there is only a 5%-10% improvement on what I have currently. Hopefully that makes sense.
 
Thanks so much!

 

[Tigerhawk]

If the newer AKG 712 is similar to the older K702/701 then they are probably not what you want for rock. You end up with everything being so spaced out, with such an uninvolved, odd presentation. I've always listened to many genres but rock has always been very important to me. My very first purchase was a K702, did some listening and then decided to buy HD600s at the last minute, to decide which one I wanted for sure. I packaged up my K702 the day I got the HD600s... if that says anything. You're thinking too hard about the Sennheisers being "slow". Some people say or repeat this, but it's completely subjective to the user. I could never describe them as sloppy and inaccurate, that's ridiculous. I've had my HD600s for going on 6 years, countless thousands of hours of listening to everything you can imagine, and I never think about anything like that. If you want a good, comfortable headphone that is a , if you will.."jack of all trades, master of none",  then the HD600 is great for that. Rock works great with them, but if you desire a heavy hitting, boomy low end then stay away from em. So anyways, while you can get general ideas it still is going to come down to you listening to the headphone in person to really know. 

 

[PioKra]

Hi mjperk,

Have you considered Meze 99 Classics? And in case you didn't like the gold scheme, the new one (silver) is comming soon.

 

[d1sturb3d]

Hi mjperk,

Have you considered Meze 99 Classics? And in case you didn't like the gold scheme, the new one (silver) is comming soon.

 
^This or PM-3 gets my vote..based on the description of the Meze 99, it's a fun sounding headphone..try to check the initial reviews on it.

 

[Smugsie]

  If the newer AKG 712 is similar to the older K702/701 then they are probably not what you want for rock. You end up with everything being so spaced out, with such an uninvolved, odd presentation. I've always listened to many genres but rock has always been very important to me. My very first purchase was a K702, did some listening and then decided to buy HD600s at the last minute, to decide which one I wanted for sure. I packaged up my K702 the day I got the HD600s... if that says anything. You're thinking too hard about the Sennheisers being "slow". Some people say or repeat this, but it's completely subjective to the user. I could never describe them as sloppy and inaccurate, that's ridiculous. I've had my HD600s for going on 6 years, countless thousands of hours of listening to everything you can imagine, and I never think about anything like that. If you want a good, comfortable headphone that is a , if you will.."jack of all trades, master of none",  then the HD600 is great for that. Rock works great with them, but if you desire a heavy hitting, boomy low end then stay away from em. So anyways, while you can get general ideas it still is going to come down to you listening to the headphone in person to really know. 

The K712, K7XX being the most bassiest, followed by the Q701, K702 and finally K701 being the most analytic but clean of them all.

I wouldn't say the HD600 is master of none, they're highly praised for classical and a different flavour for rock music.
 
Just note that all headphones so far mentioned on this thread are not underperforming of their price points and none of them are sloppy. Save for the ESW9A which I found to just be a novelty midrange headphone which is only good for smooth easy vocal listening and wooden earcups. 

And do grab a few pairs of $5monks....these are like open cans in a tiny package!

I think the Oppo PM-3 are actually a safe choice (I assume they are since I only tried the PM-1), their bass response is better than any of the AKG's and Sennheiser HD5--/HD6-- series and the closed back might be better for rock. Plus they're closed back and efficient planar magnetics so you can use them as a semi-portable.

Pair them with $5 open back earbuds and you're set! I can assure you that these chinese earbuds are no let-down, I'm also guilty of buying a bunch of <$20 earbuds only to find them better than $100 choices out there

Edit: OP I suggest you do a bit more research since you already own an ATH-M50 and have experience with the DT770, you can compare headphones based on user opinion, then compare your final decision with the ATH-M50. Find the pros and cons until you're more satisfied by the pros to the cons.