I would love to know anyone that maybe can do even the quickest comparo with a jolida tube amp.
I have the norh 6.6 speakers which are very easy to drive but I really would like to know if this prima would be a better sound then the popular jolida's out there?
How about a little bump for this thread? Does anybody have any new, additional or updated impressions on this amp. It is very appealing to somebody who wants to get into tubes, but does not want to mess around with maintenance issues. Any thoughts?
Stereophile reviewed the Prima Luna in the current(Jan,2005) issue and really liked it. I'm sticking with my statement that it sounds kinda "lush" but I'm sure some folks will love it anyway. The comments about the build quality in the review text are right on and the pics of the internals are just as clean as the ones I posted(from Kevin Deal's site) but they still don't look as neat as the Prologue One I had for an audition. If can imagine it,the example I had looked even better than any of the pics I've seen.
I'd like to see this kind of quality applied to a great 2A3 circuit in an integrated with a really nice headamp built in. That would be nice.
Tuberoller, there are quite a few reviews available now on both the Prologue One and Two and nearly all of them agree with your early positive assessments. I have not seen any reviews besides your brief remarks that compare them to each other.
I would be very interested in knowing how you contrast the two after having lived with the model two for awhile. I understand that the Prologue two has a bit more bass authority, but would like to hear more about differences in the high end, and overal tonal balence. Is the model two brighter overall?
You also mentioned how nice the two looked. I had thought that the only difference in appearance was the tubes themselves.
After all of the positive press a lot of us are planning investments in tube audio. Without an audition available close by, input by the few that have seriously listened to both models would be very helpful.
My understanding is that the Prima Luna is made by Spark/Cayin to Upscale Audio's specifications. It is essentially an upgraded and slightly redesigned TA-30. The Ah! Njoe Tjoeb people in Europe may be involved in the Prima Luna project as well.
According to a post in Audio Asylum, Kevin Deal never denied that his Prima Luna is made by Spark and is essentially a TA-30. He further mentioned that he got Spark to remove/pull the TA-30 from the US market. Paul Grizbeek at B2B audio was left in the cold by this move, as he was one of the primary US distributors for Cayin. Food for thought....
Originally Posted by oneeyedhobbit I'm not about to disagree with someone who knows technical info on this subject (as I have none), but I would agree with some of the points made earlier b y posters like john_jcb. I won't buy an amp because its insides look pretty, but it would certainly inspire confidence that it was at least designed and laid out with forthought and care. Several other posters have pointed out the possibility of interference if the wires are thrown about helter skelter.
Having some degree of technical knowledge (I assume, at least), do you care to comment?
I didn't say "helter-skelter" was okay either. It is just a matter of understanding how to wire so that the currents behave optimally and the internal fields are not a susceptibilty problem. "some degree"? I guess 30 years of digital and system design experience, including design team lead on the Pentium 2 qualifies as "some degree".....
Originally Posted by Wodgy IMHO Audioengr is full of hot air. That was just another one of his posts that doesn't give any specifics but just links to one of his "articles" (aka. free advertising for his mod business) at Positive Feedback. The wiring inside these Prima Luna amps looks exceptional and does reflect an obvious attention to detail.
For truly inspiring point-to-point examples, the reprint of Mullard's "Tube Circuits for Audio Amplifiers" has several pictures of even more impressive layouts. Similarly, old Tektronix gear was very well made.
Attention to detail it may have, but Tektronix gear is an entirely different animal.
So what qualifies you to be an expert in this regard?
Originally Posted by Hirsch Good P2P, such as the Jubal, is not going to be able to use a photo of the wiring as a selling point, except to people familiar enough with P2P layouts to analyze why it's laid out as it is. It's an alien land to someone used to looking at pretty circuit boards.
I think that applies to me. I mainly use P2P as "Peer to Peer", though I have heard it use it as "Point to Point" as well, just under a completely different context. When I looked at the original picture, I just thought "Eh? What's that". I read the rest of the thread just to try and get more "clued in" (even though it is clear that such amp is way out of my budget). Well, perhaps the people who would spend that sort of money would all know enough about P2P to know what is good quality and what isn't and I am simply not the target audience in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuberoller The point here is that I did'nt have to pay extra for this high quality,it was only $1000. It happens to sound pretty good too, so that's icing on the cake and all for $1000.
I guess I must be in your "special category" of people... Good quality is important but... I think if I had to pick one primary trait and one "icing on the cake", then the "pretty good sounding" will have to be the primary trait:
Something that breaks appart within the first year can be replaced at least (assuming the service is not as bad as the workmanship).
Something I dislike will just end up collecting dust until I can retire it to someone else.
Now if something has questionable quality AND known poor service, then yes, I would avoid the product altogether.
Fortunately, I think it is quite possible to have good quality, service and sound.
Originally Posted by Hirsch The ties bars make the wiring easier for the tech assembling it, which cuts costs and certainly look pretty. However, the idea behind P2P is that each component be soldered to the next. One solder joint is the only connection between the leads. Using a tie bar makes the job of assembly easier, but note that the signal is now passing through two solder joints, as well as the tie bar itself, to get between components. One of the main advantages of P2P is lost. Calling it P2TB2P is a more accurate description. There's a bit more to P2P than the absence of the board. I've got to admit that it's pretty, though.
Yeah most real P2P jobs I have seen are actually quite ugly in that the orientation of components needed to get them to solder together usually isn't very aesthetic.
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore Note the ceramic tektronix tie bars.
This is gorgeous work that is labor intensive.
This kind of quality is only possible in the USA on very expensive products.
Which is why china is going to kick our butt in the next 20 years.
Zenith tube TV's used to look like this.
Economies progress from mainly agricultural to mainly manufacturing to mainly service based. The US is the largest exporter of services in the world and will stay way as long as our higher education system stays at the top of its game.
The only manufacturing that really needs to stay in-house is defense manufacturing for obvious reasons.
Originally Posted by Tuberoller It also makes it easy to hide poor build quality and already stolen designs. Hiding the designation of a single component is a lot different than forbiding the exposure of the interior of a component. When the quality of workmanship,design and execution are a source of great pride,like with the Prima Luna amp,then things like a "proprietary circuit" become secondary. The builders of the Prologue One feel that the build quality is a selling point,as does Ray Samules,Headroom, Meier Audio,Headamp and a few others. If a builder thinks that the only real quality of his components is perceived sound quality(which is entirely subjective) then perhaps he should keep the lid on. Anyone can appreciate high build quality, it takes a special kind of person to overlook all that for the sake of what he thinks is good sound.
Originally Posted by oneeyedhobbit I'm not about to disagree with someone who knows technical info on this subject (as I have none), but I would agree with some of the points made earlier b y posters like john_jcb. I won't buy an amp because its insides look pretty, but it would certainly inspire confidence that it was at least designed and laid out with forthought and care. Several other posters have pointed out the possibility of interference if the wires are thrown about helter skelter.
Having some degree of technical knowledge (I assume, at least), do you care to comment?
You don't really know that. One could have a poor design circuit built in China with the neatest "P2P" wiring for a low cost. Knowing how "audiophiles" fawn over that stuff, one could make some good money out of it.
In this case more than likely it is a decent or even good design, but just because it looks like an amp that would be priced at $10,000 if built in the US doesn't mean it sounds any better than any other $1000 Chinese built amp.
Very few people here if anyone is qualified to discuss the techical merits of the circuit topology used in that amp beyond asking: "ain't it perrty?"
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