[hodgjy]

So in simple terms all dedicated digital source components sound the same ?
you are perfectly entitled to your opinion…

If they are bit-perfect, then, yes, they sound the same. Digital is digital. If there are differences arising in the digital domain, then that device isn't bit perfect.

 

[The Jester]

That’s a big “if”..
Do some reading on EFM, Sampling and Read Offset Jitter and the difference between a CD-ROM and a CD audio disc and drives ..especially regarding Read Offset Jitter, a CD-ROM disc has extra embedded data for absolute navigational accuracy so a CD-ROM drive can read a CD-ROM disc perfectly and still have Read Offset Errors with a CD audio disc, error correction ensures no dropouts but any excess jitter affects the timing involved in an audio CD stream that a data stream doesn't have, which can affect the DAC’s accurate conversion from digital to analogue.

 

[hodgjy]

That’s a big “if”..
Do some reading on EFM, Sampling and Read Offset Jitter and the difference between a CD-ROM and a CD audio disc and drives ..especially regarding Read Offset Jitter, a CD-ROM disc has extra embedded data for absolute navigational accuracy so a CD-ROM drive can read a CD-ROM disc perfectly and still have Read Offset Errors with a CD audio disc, error correction ensures no dropouts but any excess jitter affects the timing involved in an audio CD stream that a data stream doesn't have, which can affect the DAC’s accurate conversion from digital to analogue.

I'm aware that audio CDs are continuous streams of LPCM data and don't really have "true" files. But at the end of the day, data CDs, audio CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays are all just pits that represent 1s and 0s. The drive either correctly reads them or it doesn't. If it doesn't, there are catastrophic errors, not minor changes in the output.

Jitter is a timing issue, not a data accuracy issue. Modern DACs correct for jitter, and even if they are poor at it, jitter doesn't have a tonality. Jitter causes problem in audio dropouts, delayed audio, or garbled audio. Jitter doesn't affect timbre, tonality, or other terms audiophiles like to use.

With digital, it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't work, there are drops, skips, or corrupt files. The ability of a drive to read a disc doesn't change the timbre, detail, or air of an audio track. Binary code isn't a waveform.

Imagine telling a software engineer that installing Microsoft Excel on two different computers with different DVD drives will result in different calculations from the same formula entered into the data cells.

As I said earlier, if a transport has a different sound, it means that either it or the one it's being compared to is actively changing the data stream. This isn't bit perfect and it would be something the manufacturer would heavilty advertise as an attractive feature. Take Sony, for example. Their entire line of introductory Blu-ray players basically have the same hardware, but with each step up, they unlock some new feature. They charge anywhere from $20-$50 to unlock the SACD decoder that's already in all the other players. When you step up to their more premium line, they proudly advertise their user-enabled, optional DSEE HX upscaling technology to make faux-high res audio. So, if Sony goes to such length to advertise features and increases the prices in decks that are less than $100-300, why wouldn't some golden ear audiophile company do the same when selling their uber CD transports? They would be leaving all kinds of money on the table because in a world where people buy fancy brass weights to put on top of their CD players and fancy cable lifters to keep their speaker cables off the carpet, they could charge a premium for the digital filter inside their player that they're not advertising. Yes, digital filters can, and do, change the sound, but filters are not bit perfect. Plus, it's the DACs that apply the filter, not the drive that does the data extraction. And if the drive did have a filter, the manufacturer would proudly advertise that and charge for it.

It seems like we're at an impasse, so I'll be leaving this thread and we'll have to agree to disagree. The OP asked for a "cheap, bit perfect" transport, and I answered his question. Others chimed in with expensive, audiophile transports, which I said won't make any difference compared to a cheap dvd player, and that's an opinion that won't change.

So, why do expensive transports exist then? So people can choose their DAC to fit their needs because DACs do sound different. Or, they want a reliable mechanism that will last longer than a $35 Sanyo Blu-ray player from Walmart. Or, they want a super quiet drive mechanism, which you won't get in any Sony under $200. But to magically think that an expensive deck is better at extracting data from the same disc than a cheap deck is wishful thinking.

 

[hodgjy]

i noticed my dvd player outputs audio and presumably the digital coax feed at 48 not 44.1 - is this an issue or the coax at 44.1 and the setting for 48 audio is purely for the analogue output through the dac which shouldn't come into play with coax out?

very confusing!

d

That setting is the maximum rate the player will output. This exists because some old receivers can't decode 96K or higher, so the player downsamples everything to 48k so the receiver can decode it. It will still export all native 44.1k rates as 44.1k. I have confirmed this on dozens of DVD and Blu-ray players over the years. Even if I set my player to 96k, and the Blu-ray is at 48k, the receiver indicates it's 48k. The same for CDs. The receiver indicates the stream is 44.1k.

 

[The Jester]

Yup, gone way beyond the O/P …

 

[magicalmouse]

That setting is the maximum rate the player will output. This exists because some old receivers can't decode 96K or higher, so the player downsamples everything to 48k so the receiver can decode it. It will still export all native 44.1k rates as 44.1k. I have confirmed this on dozens of DVD and Blu-ray players over the years. Even if I set my player to 96k, and the Blu-ray is at 48k, the receiver indicates it's 48k. The same for CDs. The receiver indicates the stream is 44.1k.

Thank you, that has saved me any concern (not to mention several hundred pounds not havint t buy a transport)

d

 

[The Jester]

Happy your all sorted and apologies for making things seem difficult….

 

[magicalmouse]

I bought a s/h marantz cd5400 as transport and it is considerably better then my old lg dvd player via coax (or optical) - more depth/clarity/musicality. I do not know why this althought the cd5400 mechanism is reported to be excellent.

Interestingly i compared the cd5400 to my pc (free fidelizer/musicbee/kimber usb cable) throught the same dac (irdac2) and the cd transport had more clarity etc. - this surprised me.

 

[morrissey]

those old discman (cd walkman) with optical output are pretty good for cheap solutions

 

[marone]

Look for the SONY DVP-SR200P DVD PLAYER DVD/CD player.

This is NOT a Bluray player.
No toslink optical output. Coax.
Many programmable functions that ideally need screen hooked up to video out to navigate menus. Remote can access functions but many need done via visual menu on screen not provided.
Display on unit gives very minimal info.

These are $10 to $30, often new old stock sealed in original box. Made from 2003 to 2010. These units are everywhere. Were used in conference media rooms, community centers, common area of condos, rest homes, schools, etc.
Very common to see them for sale online.

Pair with a cheap under $100 dac/amp and you have a starter system.

I have 2 used as transport>dac for two of my systems.

 

[sajesak]

First, let me say that I'm not an amp and DAC athiest as I can hear differences between them.

However, unless humans have someone evolved the ability to hear low-level jitter from a digital source, any CD player, DVD player, or Blu-ray player with a coax out will work just fine and will sound exactly the same to human ears. Will they have different jitter measurements? Maybe, but, once again, humans can't hear it. Also, any DAC worth more than $5 will re-time the incoming digital signal and jitter is a moot point anyway.

The same people who tell you there are audible differences between transports also believe that two cables with exactly the same impedence can sound different. Or, that CDs burned at 2x are better quality and sound better than those burned at 52x. It's all placebo.

Your search should focus on which player has the quiestest spinner because that's what is actually audibly different between units and you will hear kitchen and bathroom remodeler, which can affect your music enjoyment.

I'm putting a Hi-Fi setup back together and I need a CD player/transport as I still have loads of CDs.

I will exclusively use its digital out into my existing DAC (a Benchmark) so I'm not fussed about internal DAC performance and analog outs.

I know I could theoretically buy any DVD/Blu-Ray player with a digital out, but I want a good user interface and good loading mechanism. It has to have a remote, a display, and load CDs quickly and efficiently. Front loader with tray is a must.

What are my options these days? The usual low- to middle- tier (Marantz, Yamaha, Denon) or is there anything else?