Cen.Grand DSDAC 1.0 Deluxe - ending point in my search for a new reference

[sahmen]

is all the upsampling done independently on board the DAC or does one need an external piece of software such as HQ Player for upsampling. Also could someone kindly list the advantages of pairing this DAC with a Cen.Grand (big) silver fox, which I currently have? I am pairing the Silver Fox for now with my Sonnet Audio Pasithea, which is by no means a slouch, and plays quite nicely with the Silver Fox. Still, I would like to have some idea of what advantages there might be, if any, in replacing the Pasithea with a DSDAC 1.0 Deluxe. Were that to happen, I could always pair the Pasithea with a Niimbus US4 unit which has been idle and "collecting dust" ever since the Silver Fox showed up.

So what are the highlights of pairing the Cen.Grand 9i-906 "Silver Fox" with this DAC, if they can be summed up in a tidy nutshell?

 

[hafzz123]

Independently done by the DAC itself

 

[project86]

As mentioned above, the DSD upsampling is all done within the DSDAC, and is actually an integral part of the conversion process itself. That is to say, it's not a separate thing like a lot of designs.

For example, I have the first-gen Violectric V590 - lovely integrated DAC/headphone amp - and it contains a dedicated AKM 32-bit sample rate converter. That chip processes incoming signals to your chosen rate, then sends that over to a pair of dual mono AKM chips which handle the D/A conversion. The upsampling and D-to-A conversion are two separate things. You can even disable upsampling altogether and forward the signal in its original sample rate if you want.

Contrast that with the DSDAC where it is required to convert to DSD128 at a bare minimum. That's just how the process works and there are no separate stages to isolate, if that makes sense.

As far as comparisons with your current Pasithea - unfortunately I have only heard that one briefly so I really can't say much. I quite liked the Morpheus and very much respect Cees and his designs. But that's about as far as I can go with it.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

As mentioned above, the DSD upsampling is all done within the DSDAC, and is actually an integral part of the conversion process itself. That is to say, it's not a separate thing like a lot of designs.

For example, I have the first-gen Violectric V590 - lovely integrated DAC/headphone amp - and it contains a dedicated AKM 32-bit sample rate converter. That chip processes incoming signals to your chosen rate, then sends that over to a pair of dual mono AKM chips which handle the D/A conversion. The upsampling and D-to-A conversion are two separate things. You can even disable upsampling altogether and forward the signal in its original sample rate if you want.

Contrast that with the DSDAC where it is required to convert to DSD128 at a bare minimum. That's just how the process works and there are no separate stages to isolate, if that makes sense.

As far as comparisons with your current Pasithea - unfortunately I have only heard that one briefly so I really can't say much. I quite liked the Morpheus and very much respect Cees and his designs. But that's about as far as I can go with it.

Do you know the differences between Filters? (D1-D8). I tried to searched about them but null result. The differences to my ears are subtle but some of them more noticeable than the others. So far my favourite is D6, due to a hint of extra "sweetness" in vocality.

 

[project86]

I don't actually know if that is explained anywhere, now that you mention it. I recall settling on 6 as being my favorite as well, but 7 and 1 both have appeal. Honestly I just leave it on 6 nowadays though.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I don't actually know if that is explained anywhere, now that you mention it. I recall settling on 6 as being my favorite as well, but 7 and 1 both have appeal. Honestly I just leave it on 6 nowadays though.

Damn we have the exact preference haha. Actually I like D4 as well, very close to D6, it's just D6 slight more presence in vocal.

However, I like DSD512 the most, have tried DSD1024 several times and always miss the sound of DSD512.

 

[hafzz123]

Oh I don't know the deluxe got several filter settings, must've missed that

 

[Soundbliss]

Good day folks,

@project86 thank you very much for starting this thread and your very detail comparison of the CEN.Grand DSDAC Deluxe DAC with many other reputable DACs in the mkt.

I am new to stereo Hifi and in the process of putting together my humble system to kickstart my hifi journey. I am purely into digital source via music streaming thus the search for an ultimate DAC which I hope will make my finite resource worthwhile and could last me a good 5 to 10 years so that I can just focus on enjoying the music.

Thanks to this thread, among the various DACs I have seriously considered and researched including Holo Audio MAY KTE and Denafrips Pontus/Venus, I have shortlisted the DSDAC Deluxe and the Meitner Audio MA3 and is struggling to make a decision.

Maybe I can start with my analysis on both DACs so you can chime in on your thoughts.

CEN.Grand DSDAC Deluxe
Pros

1. DSD DAC
2. Upsampling can be performed in 4 stages up to DSD1024
3. Built-in LPS with separate decent transformers driving both digital & analogue section
4. Stellar reviews
5. Promising new Digital Media transport (GLD1.0) to be launched soon which will complement and complete my chain in upstream source

Cons

1. No chance of auditioning prior to purchase
2. Very new model
3. No product and service support in where I am and dealer is very new
4. Uncertainty in the longevity of the brand & company

Meitner Audio MA3
Pros

1. DSD DAC
2. Upsample to 16xDSD
3. Very established brand & company
4. Stable and proven performance showcased in various audiophile reference system
5. Good support from authorised distributor in where I am
6. DAC comes with integrated streamer function
7. Flexibility for future upgrade within the same chassis at extra cost to be top up

Cons

1. Expensive (Double that of DSDAC Deluxe)
2. Switch mode power supply
3. Streamer function seems basic via mConnect
4. At latter stage may have to add on an audiophile grade DIY computer for better control of digital source and source quality

My favorite genres:
- Jazz (80%), Classical (10%) and Pop (10%)
- Generally 80% instrumental and 20% vocal.
My music source:
- MTV over YouTube from my Sony OLED TV via SPDIF optical Toslink
- Digital music via streaming services like JazzRadio.com, Spotify and Tidal Hifi plus
- Small collection via thumb drive.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I never heard any EMM Labs product, so curious how they compared.

 

[project86]

Good day folks,

@project86 thank you very much for starting this thread and your very detail comparison of the CEN.Grand DSDAC Deluxe DAC with many other reputable DACs in the mkt.

I am new to stereo Hifi and in the process of putting together my humble system to kickstart my hifi journey. I am purely into digital source via music streaming thus the search for an ultimate DAC which I hope will make my finite resource worthwhile and could last me a good 5 to 10 years so that I can just focus on enjoying the music.

Thanks to this thread, among the various DACs I have seriously considered and researched including Holo Audio MAY KTE and Denafrips Pontus/Venus, I have shortlisted the DSDAC Deluxe and the Meitner Audio MA3 and is struggling to make a decision.

Maybe I can start with my analysis on both DACs so you can chime in on your thoughts.

CEN.Grand DSDAC Deluxe
Pros

1. DSD DAC
2. Upsampling can be performed in 4 stages up to DSD1024
3. Built-in LPS with separate decent transformers driving both digital & analogue section
4. Stellar reviews
5. Promising new Digital Media transport (GLD1.0) to be launched soon which will complement and complete my chain in upstream source

Cons

1. No chance of auditioning prior to purchase
2. Very new model
3. No product and service support in where I am and dealer is very new
4. Uncertainty in the longevity of the brand & company

Meitner Audio MA3
Pros

1. DSD DAC
2. Upsample to 16xDSD
3. Very established brand & company
4. Stable and proven performance showcased in various audiophile reference system
5. Good support from authorised distributor in where I am
6. DAC comes with integrated streamer function
7. Flexibility for future upgrade within the same chassis at extra cost to be top up

Cons

1. Expensive (Double that of DSDAC Deluxe)
2. Switch mode power supply
3. Streamer function seems basic via mConnect
4. At latter stage may have to add on an audiophile grade DIY computer for better control of digital source and source quality

My favorite genres:
- Jazz (80%), Classical (10%) and Pop (10%)
- Generally 80% instrumental and 20% vocal.
My music source:
- MTV over YouTube from my Sony OLED TV via SPDIF optical Toslink
- Digital music via streaming services like JazzRadio.com, Spotify and Tidal Hifi plus
- Small collection via thumb drive.

I think you have a great list of pros/cons going there. I love what I'm hearing from Cen.Grand thus far (3 for 3 on the products I've tried) and believe they deserve success/growth as a company. But there's no denying Meitner is a much more well-known brand that is far more established (in most areas of the world at least, China perhaps being the exception).

You can never be 100% sure of anything but chances are fairly high that Meitner/EMM Labs will be around to support their gear a decade from now. Cen.Grand has some big plans and I hope they pan out but it's just not as much of a sure thing.


Honestly if you can get over the lack of audition, it might still be worth it to go with the DSDAC Deluxe - especially if your dealer offers a good in-home trial period with little or no loss if you end up not loving it. In the meantime I would also try to audition the Meitner if at all possible. You might fall in love and forget about any other considerations. Or, you might find that it doesn't quite do it for you (especially for the price), so you can cross it off the list. Either outcome is helpful.

Having said that, your comments about the streaming aspect make me think it might be worth waiting for the GLD1.0 streamer to launch before making a final decision. It seems like you may not be satisfied with the integrated streaming portion of the Meitner. If you do Roon it should be great but apart from that it might be somewhat frustrating. Once you get some feedback about the GLD it might help you figure out which way you want to go. After all, it seems like the GLD plus DSDAC Deluxe might be roughly similar in price to the MA3 anyway.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Need a little bit help here. If I remembered correctly I've seen somehere about a post, that explained more about Cen Grand brand history. Somehow I couldn't find the post though (been used search engine with multiple keywords).

 

[leylandi]

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cen-grand-9i-906-silver-fox.26606/reviews#review-31221

 

[Vincent_Amsterdam]

I have been listening to the DSDAC with the Ideon EOS time (USB reclocker) placed infront all morning and my finding is: the DSDAC is positively affected by signal reclocking big time (despite the ‘clock blocking mechanism’)!

Conclusion: the Ideon streamer/ reclocker do lift the Cen.grand’s performance several notches!

 

[Vincent_Amsterdam]

I must say: the Ideon Absolute Stream (via USB) is a superb match with the Cen.Grand DSDAC surpassing the Grimm Audio MU1-Cen.Grand combo in all audiophile parameters. In a couple of weeks my Cen.Grand will be compared A-B to the Ideon ION DAC (approx. 19k USD).. nice shoot out

OK, the ION DAC is simply put in a ‘different league’, but not a 13k increase investment wise. Most noticeable win in performance is adding the reclocker to the DSDAC (even more so than switching DACs)

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I have been listening to the DSDAC with the Ideon EOS time (USB reclocker) placed infront all morning and my finding is: the DSDAC is positively affected by signal reclocking big time (despite the ‘clock blocking mechanism’)!

Conclusion: the Ideon streamer/ reclocker do lift the Cen.grand’s performance several notches!

Somehow I agree on this, even though not is the exact same condition. My usual source is laptop, and by using singxer su6 (as DDC and "unintentionally" also additional clocking) the improvement in sound is easily noticeable.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cen-grand-9i-906-silver-fox.26606/reviews#review-31221

Thanks mate!