[dura]

Recently I discovered that the sound I want is not attainable with amp and speakers for sensible money, probably at least partly because of my room, my Rega planet/Primare a30/Aynaudio 122 (carefully set up and accesorized) are not as satisfying as my humble NW-HD1 +E4/HD485.
So for real (solo) audiopleasure headphones seem the way to go.
There are some favored chinese CDPs well made with a dedicated tubestage for headphones, f.i. from Vincent and Shanling. No opamps but dedicated class A amplification if I understand well.
My question is; is this stage enough for a powerhungry phone like the HD650 or do I need a headphoneamp anyway?

 

[Garbz]

THe HD650s are everything but powerhungry

. Yeah they'll do just fine. I'd be more worried about opamps and other cheap headphone additions. Shanling's especially is a feature of the player, not an afterthought.

 

[dave-the-rave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz THe HD650s are everything but powerhungry . Yeah they'll do just fine. I'd be more worried about opamps and other cheap headphone additions. Shanling's especially is a feature of the player, not an afterthought.

I must disagree with my esteemed fellow head-fier. Yes, the HD-650's will play (and play loud) out of most any headphone jack, but I believe that they actually require a lot of current in order to deliver the sound they are capable of.

I direct anyone interested to the 6moons review of the Eastern Electric Minimax CDP, which has its own tubed headphone output. My recollection is that the reviewer was unimpressed by the performance of the 650's out of that jack; later, when he heard the cans out of a dedicated headphone amp, he understood what the "fuss" about the cans was all about. (His other cans, A-T's, were easier to drive and preferable out of the CDP's jack.)

Please read for yourself:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/a...a/winning.html

This one's a good read, too; 6 paragraphs from the end is the comparison of the 650's via the Singlepower MPX vs. the Eastern Electric jack:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/s...er/mpx3_3.html

 

[dura]

Thanks Dave, very interesting.

My problem is, I want to add headphonelistening to my main system, and my amp, (Primare A30) has no mute function. It does have a preout, but through the volume.
I don't see how I can connect a headphone amp and disable the speakers.
Like others, my CDP (Rega Planet) does not have extra outs, so I don't really see how I can a headphone here either (perhaps if it had a DAC, through the digital out, but it seems ridiculous to buy an extra DAC because of in/output troubles).
I tried a player with double outputs, an Arcam CD73, but it wasn't my flavour.
Now if only I had a CDP with a good integrated phone amp...
I'm interested in other experiences, especially with Vincent and Shanling players.

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave-the-rave I must disagree with my esteemed fellow head-fier. Yes, the HD-650's will play (and play loud) out of most any headphone jack, but I believe that they actually require a lot of current in order to deliver the sound they are capable of.

Actually the high end Senns are fairly high efficiency and high impedance - they don't need THAT much current. The high impedance does require larger voltage swings from an amp, though. The K340, HP1000 - those headphones are truly difficult loads, and the K1000 is an order of magnitude more difficult.

None of the dedicated headphone amps I've owned (in recent memory) have had a problem driving the Senns - they're a fairly easy load once their basic requirements are met. Jacks in receivers and CD players can be another story. I've tried Senns out of the Jolida JA100a jack and it was truly awful. Generally these built in jacks won't hold a candle to a dedicated headamp - they're working with less real estate, a more limited budget, and often a less thoughtful design. A CDP or peamp RCA output could be used with adaptors, but usually not the best idea because they're designed to drive much higher impedances in the 10,000+ ohm range - not a 300 ohm (or less) headphone (plus with the CDP you'd lack volume control).

Anyways dura, the Jolida is a nice CDP but its headphone jack sucks

The Shanlings or EE's may be much better but since they are so few members using the headphone jacks of those players, it would be a gamble at best. Best bet is a good dedicated headamp I'm afraid

 

[dave-the-rave]

Double post... sorry. See next.

 

[dave-the-rave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dura My problem is, I want to add headphonelistening to my main system, and my amp, (Primare A30) has no mute function. It does have a preout, but through the volume. I don't see how I can connect a headphone amp and disable the speakers. Like others, my CDP (Rega Planet) does not have extra outs, so I don't really see how I can a headphone here either (perhaps if it had a DAC, through the digital out, but it seems ridiculous to buy an extra DAC because of in/output troubles). I tried a player with double outputs, an Arcam CD73, but it wasn't my flavour. Now if only I had a CDP with a good integrated phone amp... I'm interested in other experiences, especially with Vincent and Shanling players.

Dura,

You could get a pair of "Vampire splitters" (I believe 'Vampire' is a brand name; but others make these as well), small adapters that attach to the RCA outs of your CDP and provide two female RCA outs each. SO... you can run one set of interconnects to your Primaire, and one set to a dedicated headphone amp. The splitters are inexpensive, and I don't think there is much of a sonic downside.

Here they are:

http://www.headphone.com/products/ca...-splitters.php

I got a similar pair at Radio Shack for $6.00 U.S. Good luck!

 

[elnero]

I've talked with a few MiniMax owners who felt the MiniMax's internal headamp drove the HD580/600/650's adequately enough to be quite enjoyable. I myself tried the 650's with the MiniMax I owned and I felt it did a pretty good job. The MiniMax has tons of gain but may lack that last bit of oomph that you could get with a higher end amp but remember, it's a decent internal amp on a nice CD player not a dedicated high-end amp so you can't expect miracles.

 

[dura]

Quote:

You could get a pair of "Vampire splitters"

It is a possibility, but goes against my audiophile cable-conscious grain, but I'll definately keep it in mind.

Interesting, Elnero, thanks.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dura Interesting, Elnero, thanks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think the MiniMax's internal amp would be competetive in the under $500 dedicated amp market.

I should also note that the headamp on the MiniMax isn't a tube amp per se, it's an opamp based design that is fed by the MiniMax's tube output so the tubes are still in the path but the amp itself is solid state.

 

[dura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think the MiniMax's internal amp would be competetive in the under $500 dedicated amp market. I should also note that the headamp on the MiniMax isn't a tube amp per se, it's an opamp based design that is fed by the MiniMax's tube output so the tubes are still in the path but the amp itself is solid state.

$500,- is about my price mark.
AFAIK the Shanling 100 seems to have a seperate tubeheadphonestage, sounds more attractive then opamps, but the proof of the pudding....
If I'm going for an integrated phonestage (not sure yet, there are other options and limited means), the minimax will probably make it to myu shortlist, thanks.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dura $500,- is about my price mark. AFAIK the Shanling 100 seems to have a seperate tubeheadphonestage, sounds more attractive then opamps, but the proof of the pudding.... If I'm going for an integrated phonestage (not sure yet, there are other options and limited means), the minimax will probably make it to myu shortlist, thanks.

Are you talking about the Shanling CD-T100? I believe it does have a tube headphone amp in it but you won't get one of those anywhere near $500 (or were you talking $500 strictly for the headamp?).

 

[dura]

Sorry, I was unclear, I meant $500,- for the amp, the combination costs more, I know.

 

[elnero]

I don't think you should limit yourself to an all-in-one unless you have to for space or budget reasons. $500 can get you a pretty decent amp these days, especially on the used market. I'd work more towards building a system with good synergy that's going to work well with your chosen headphones.

That may sound like I'm going against what I stated before but not really, the MiniMax is probably one of the best solutions for a budget all-in-one solution especially when they were priced between $700 - 900 but the new $1099 retail opens the door for alot of separates to outperform it. For instance my current setup wouldn't cost that much more than a new MiniMax but IMO it outperforms the MiniMax by a fairly wide margin.