CD Mats
Apr 13, 2002 at 7:15 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 32

dngl

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CD Mats (like the aurex mat, etc) sound like complete bull to me, but I have never tried one. Anyone here actually given one an audition?
 
Apr 13, 2002 at 7:26 PM Post #2 of 32

jatinder

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I tried the "StatMat CDi Blue" mat for SACD.

It made a major difference to the playback on the SA-1. The effect also lasted for about 4 days after I had removed the mat.




Took me basically a week to get rid of the rubbish that the mat had added to the sound. The sound became very bass heavy and dark. I absolutely hated it.

A friend of mine with all DCS gear swears by it. So who knows.

--Jatinder
 
Apr 13, 2002 at 8:12 PM Post #3 of 32

DarkAngel

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I have tried several of them including Aurex, none seemed to make noticeable improvement. Don't work too good with front tray CDPs as when drawer closes your tweak disk can slide slightly and not be centered, this problem avoided with top load CDP.
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 12:41 AM Post #5 of 32

punosion

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Man, more crazy-stupid tweaks. Do they make these things specifically for stupid people with stupid amounts of money?

I'm still waiting on an answer as to why vibration control improves the sound of a preamp or amplifier...don't tell me how it works, tell me why it works...no one has been able to explain it to me.

Seems like it works the same way that green M&M's make the women go nuts...
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 3:06 AM Post #7 of 32

carlo

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i've tried the crossbow mat and didn't hear a dramatic change... the top end might have been sweeter, but it could easily have been psychoacoustic.

punoison,

actually, in the thread you're referring to i think that it was explained that the "why" in isolation tweaks is due to vibration. once again, sitting around and theorizing is a waste of time... try it and listen. no one will jump all over you if you don't hear a difference.

regards,
carlo.
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 3:49 AM Post #8 of 32

zspradlin

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I agree, don't sit around asking why it works, just try it. I didn't think that vibration isolation or damping would make a difference, then I tried a Symposium Ultra platform under my CDP, it made an INSTANT difference. I was shocked. Try isolating your CDP first, you will notice a difference.
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 3:58 AM Post #9 of 32

punosion

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Quote:

Originally posted by carlo
punoison,

actually, in the thread you're referring to i think that it was explained that the "why" in isolation tweaks is due to vibration. once again, sitting around and theorizing is a waste of time... try it and listen. no one will jump all over you if you don't hear a difference.

regards,
carlo.


Well, yes, isolation is important to minimize vibration. But why is it important in regard to pre-amps and amplifiers and the like that just pass through electrical signals and currents? I can completely understand why you could get an audible difference in using said tweaks and optimizations in turntable setups and even CD and DVD setups. But why everything else?

I think that vibration dampening of this nature could possibly change the sound by a maximum of 2% difference. That's it. People talk about the higher-end Headroom amps and the "last 10%." But nobody seems to care to spend the $1000 for it. But it seems that people go nuts over that last 2% when it comes to vibration dampening...even if it costs them that $1000.

So, just because you have a pre-amp vibration platform that was made from a rare Brazilian tree and you spent an astronomical amount on it, doesn't mean you are going to experience "an airier, wider soundstage with tighter, more controlled bass." Why should isolating electrical currents from vibration give you this? WHY?
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 4:07 AM Post #10 of 32

Driftwood

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could you explain to me how much of a difference is 2%?

is that the difference between stock headphones and the hd-600?

please tell me, I am interested, maybe if it gives me a 2% difference it will be worth spending more money than I thought!

Driftwood
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 4:13 AM Post #11 of 32

carlo

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Quote:

Well, yes, isolation is important to minimize vibration. But why is it important in regard to pre-amps and amplifiers and the like that just pass through electrical signals and currents? I can completely understand why you could get an audible difference in using said tweaks and optimizations in turntable setups and even CD and DVD setups. But why everything else?


the theory is that resistors, caps, and inductors vibrate as well... while my engineering and physics classes never addressed the issue of microphonic vibration in an electrical circuit, its also understood that there's a lot yet to be known. also, when dealing with tubed equipment, the fight against microphonics is a worthy one.
Quote:

I think that vibration dampening of this nature could possibly change the sound by a maximum of 2% difference.


but if that difference is audible...

also, putting percentages on sound is silly.
Quote:

People talk about the higher-end Headroom amps and the "last 10%." But nobody seems to care to spend the $1000 for it. But it seems that people go nuts over that last 2% when it comes to vibration dampening...even if it costs them that $1000.


anyone who spends a grand on isolation is silly. no one is claiming that $24 vibrapods will turn a total airhead into a max, however, it may yield an improvement. of course, the next question is how much? i've posted quite a few tweaks here that cost well under $5 - it's worth the risk. the idea is to maximise the sound at a minimal cost.
Quote:

So, just because you have a pre-amp vibration platform that was made from a rare Brazilian tree and you spent an astronomical amount on it, doesn't mean you are going to experience "an airier, wider soundstage with tighter, more controlled bass." Why should isolating electrical currents from vibration give you this? WHY?


why ask why when you can try? why are 24 bit dacs important when a cd player outputs 16 bits? lowers the noise floor right? but do we really need those extra bits? why doesn't someone make a 48 bit dac?

i'm not trying to flame you, but it's very easy to dimiss something you haven't tried... i've experimented with a few things that didn't make an audible improvement. try an isolation tweak... once again if it doesn't work then it doesn't work. if it does make a difference (positive or negative) you're out barely anything, and saving time on debating the subject.

all i'm asking is for you to try instead of dismissing things by theory.

regards again,
carlo.
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 4:41 AM Post #12 of 32

punosion

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Quote:

Originally posted by carlo

why ask why when you can try? why are 24 bit dacs important when a cd player outputs 16 bits? lowers the noise floor right? but do we really need those extra bits? why doesn't someone make a 48 bit dac?

i'm not trying to flame you, but it's very easy to dimiss something you haven't tried... i've experimented with a few things that didn't make an audible improvement. try an isolation tweak... once again if it doesn't work then it doesn't work. if it does make a difference (positive or negative) you're out barely anything, and saving time on debating the subject.

all i'm asking is for you to try instead of dismissing things by theory.

regards again,
carlo.


Thank you for your reply, carlo! The best layman's explaining I've seen yet.

I do believe putting a percentage to sound is silly. Just wanted some common "frame of reference to go by."
wink.gif


Don't get me wrong...I am not discrediting this by any means, nor do I have evidence to support my argument. Hell, I don't even have an argument, just skepticism. In this case, it's so incredibly easy to dismiss. Therefore, I did order that sample of that foamy stuff someone suggested here a bit ago
biggrin.gif


Really, I'm not dismissing things by theory...I'm trying to shove all the theories and complex reasoning why and just get a plain answer...why should I be able to hear a difference?

It is a good thing that many of the tweaks, as you mentioned, are cheap and easy to implement. I just get this thought "why bother?" I mean, I hear how people talk about how the HD580 and HD600 are the same headphone drivers mounted in different frames. People think there is a notable difference in sound between the two (I can't argue either way 'cuz I haven't heard either of 'em), and I wouldn't doubt them. Is there a "580-to-600" difference in sound when you compare a non vibration-dampened system to a vibration-dampened system?

To put it another way, upgrading from $10 Rat Shack cables to, say, $100 Cardas cables would make an obvious improvement. The jump from those Cardas to, say a $1000 cable is a lesser margin of improvement. Is this margin of improvement in sound dampening more like the 10-100 dollar cable jump, or is it more negligible as the 100-1000 dollar jump? Get what I mean?

<sigh> I'm just trying to guage this whole issue, because it seems this is the area that suffers the greatest to snake-oil ********. I'm not trying to disprove, rather understand. Make sense of it...but thank you for your feedback! It's greatly appreciated!
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 5:33 AM Post #13 of 32

carlo

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punoison,

very cool - i hope you post your conclusions.
 
Apr 15, 2002 at 2:21 PM Post #14 of 32

Jeff

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A few months back in Sterophile they mentioned using an old floppy disk as a CD mat, and it worked in my case.

You take an old 5.5inch floppy disk, rip out the actual magnetic 'floppy' part, and place it on top of your cd. Works well on my top loading CDP. I'm still investigating why it works :/
 

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