[mahkook]

I have what might be a stupid question, or not, but I will ask anyway. (please excuse me if I mangle the frequencies and other details here...)

I purchased a DVD player to use as my source because it will send a higher rate 96/24 (?) signal. I have been looking to purchase a better DAC that can process 96/24 sources. So what I need to know is, if I am just listening to red book CD's, does the DVD player do anything to the lower signal normally sent from a CD (48/?) to output a "upsampled" signal, or does it only pass the same thing as the original source? In otherwords, playing a cd on a dvd player using a 96/24 dac (ie, Channel Island VDA-1), is it different than a regular CD player to the same DAC? Do I need to get an upsampler interface for redbook CD's (ie Monarch DIP 96/24) to fully utilize the better DAC? Or maybe the Perpetual Tech P-3A which I think has an upsample ability and DAC in one?

I want to know for sure before I go and drop the $$$ on a better dac if I am going to get what I want from it....

Thanks for the help!
Mahkook

 

[elrod-tom]

If you wish to take a 16/44.1 redbook CD and extract 24/96 from it, you will need to upsample the signal.

BTW - You might also consider MSB products. I'm on my second generation, and they are very good. You can pick them up used for a reasonable cost, and they're built like tanks!! Very much upgradeable too...just my $0.02


PS - Not to hijack the thread, but wasn't Steve Prefontaine from Coos Bay, OR??

 

[mahkook]

Ok... that is what I was suspecting. one of the reasons I have been considering the VDA-1 or possibly the PT P-3A DACs is because of the form factor. I plan on building a compact equipment cabinet around my RKV and want all my gear to fit within the same width. Is the P-3A a proper choice then for what I would like to do?

One the side note... Prefontane was from Coos Bay. Thanks to him, every summer we have a marathon run on his old training route. That route runs directly in front of my RV and mobile home park (of 130 sites mostly full). Every time they run that *damm* race they block off the street for half the day and either trap tenants / customers in or keep them out. Don't get me wrong, it is just fine they run it, BUT we have 4 lanes and they could just close one side rather than the whole dang street (and they have guards at each intersection anyways...) I get a lot of ticked people who look at me each time it happens.

 

[elrod-tom]

I've not heard the P3-A, but I've heard pretty good things about it. The MSB's are going to be substantially larger than the RKV, so the cabinet will be a problem.

Bel Canto makes a nice and relatively compact DAC. I'm not sure how the depth fits in with your plans, but the width should be fine. Pretty sure that the new ones upsample too...but they're expensive.

As for an upsampling DSP, I had a GW Labs DSP and I thought it did a pretty good job. In this instance, it both upsamples to 24/96 AND reclocks the signal (thus reducing jitter substantially). You would need TWO Monarchy Audio products (DAP and 24/96 Upsampler) to achieve the same result.

 

[jefemeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahkook I purchased a DVD player to use as my source because it will send a higher rate 96/24 (?) signal. I have been looking to purchase a better DAC that can process 96/24 sources.

The DVD player will only output 96kHz when listening to the stereo soundtrack on a DVD (I assume your system is only 2 channels). In fact, it may even output only half the rate at 48kHz. But I think that was more an issue with some older DVD players.
Quote:

Originally Posted by mahkook So what I need to know is, if I am just listening to red book CD's, does the DVD player do anything to the lower signal normally sent from a CD (48/?) to output a "upsampled" signal, or does it only pass the same thing as the original source?

When playing redbook, the DVD player will output 44.1kHz. Although it's possible for the DVD player to upsample on its digital outs, it's not the best idea and may actually be a rare feature (not sure). It's a much better idea to do the upsampling in a quality DAC than in the transport.
Quote:

Originally Posted by mahkook In otherwords, playing a cd on a dvd player using a 96/24 dac (ie, Channel Island VDA-1), is it different than a regular CD player to the same DAC?

No. I believe (but again am not 100% sure) that the DVD player will output 44.1kHz just as a CD only machine would. But as I said earlier, I would much rather see the upsampling happen in the external DAC anyway.
Quote:

Originally Posted by mahkook Do I need to get an upsampler interface for redbook CD's (ie Monarch DIP 96/24) to fully utilize the better DAC? Or maybe the Perpetual Tech P-3A which I think has an upsample ability and DAC in one?

No need for a seperate upsampler. A DAC rated at 24/96 will process any format up to and including 24/96. That probably means 32, 44.1, 48, 64, 88.2, 96 Khz all at 16 or 14 bit. Depending on implementation of the circuit, it may only recognize a subset of those formats. The DAC will automatically convert any slower format into 24/96 before decoding. But again this isn't a given. It may process 44.1kHz data at 88.2 instead of 96kHz since this is an easier 2x conversion instead of a 2.18x conversion.

But than again, you may find the outboard upsampler sounds better than without it. Perhaps the DAC doesn't do such a hot job of upsampling and performs much better at native 96kHz. In that case, it makes sense to do the conversion in a seperate box and run 96kHz into the DAC all the time. A unit like the Monarchy DIP will also reclock the signal and remove a lot of the jitter. But a unit like the DIP should be thought of as a band-aid for a poor/cheaper DAC design.

So really it all comes down to how all these processes are implemented. You should not think of one method or format being inheriently better than another. Let your ears be the final judge.

edit: add. The format rating of a DAC implies only what formats it can accept. It doesn't necessarily mean that it uses that same format to decode. For example, if you input redbook into a Wadia 27 it actually gets upsampled to 24 bits, 2.8224 MHz before being decoded to Analog. Just another example of how one needs to focus on Implementation and not text specifications.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom As for an upsampling DSP, I had a GW Labs DSP and I thought it did a pretty good job. In this instance, it both upsamples to 24/96 AND reclocks the signal (thus reducing jitter substantially). You would need TWO Monarchy Audio products (DAP and 24/96 Upsampler) to achieve the same result.

I've also got a GW Labs DSP which I use in tandem with a Monarchy DIP. First the DIP, then the DSP. If there's a difference between the DSP and the Monarchy upsampler, I don't know what it is. Both the DSP and Monarchy upsampler use a different method of jitter reduction than the DIP (or DAP). IME these devices are more effective when used together, than either alone.

 

[Stringreen]

I'm currently using an Ayre D1x DVD player for all my CD needs. It simply plays back what is available on the disc. For the most part, hi def discs are an improvement (though not all the time), and not to such a remarkable degree over a "Redbook" CD. I suggest getting your power cords, dedicated power line, etc. in place first which gets you more "bang" for the buck in audio improvement.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch I've also got a GW Labs DSP

You should put some blackgates or other better caps in there near the power supply. I use this unit for my HDTV box and it cleaned up the sound further.

The only thing I have with external boxes like this is that yes it reduces jitter but puts it's own signature jitter along with the digital cables you use. If your system already has low jitter, these things maynot actually help.