[Vartan]

On N6 gapless playback is supported?
Is CUE files working without bugs?
 
 
 
Which one would you chose between these two? QA360 (with WAV only firmware) and N6, they are both almost of the same price.
 
 
and one more question, can there be a noticable loss in quaility when converting flac to wav.
 
thanks

 

[Bellyworshipper]

  On N6 gapless playback is supported?
Is CUE files working without bugs?
 
 
 
Which one would you chose between these two? QA360 (with WAV only firmware) and N6, they are both almost of the same price.
 
 
and one more question, can there be a noticable loss in quaility when converting flac to wav.
 
thanks

Not sure whether the last question was addressed to Andy or the whole community, but I'll answer it myself. There is no loss of quality neither noticable nor imperceptible/(inaudible, but present) when converting flac,alac,ape,tak, wavpack or any other LOSSLESS audio file to WAV. It's also true for the back convertion of WAV-files to any  LOSSLESS format, because such formats as flac, ape, etc. are only the containers, which to a different extent, inherent to the specific format algorithm, COMPRESS the PCM WAV-file without the loss of its quality.
In other words, such lossless formats as flac or ape work similar to ZIP or RAR archivers, but particularly for WAV files: you can compress any files (in our case WAV-files) or extract the contents of archives as many times as you want and still the integrity (in our case audio quality) is ensured.
The only way you lose\deteriorate the sound quality when performing WAV<->FLAC\APE conversion is when the source file parameters and the target file parameters mismatch, e.g. you convert 24 bit 48kHz FLAC to 24 bit 44.1 kHz WAV (or vice versa)...
Thomas, I' ve seen the link (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/cayin-spark-n6-dsd-lossless-music-player-pcm1792a-chip-dsd.html) to Cayin N6 page on Russian forum. There are "In Stock - Shipping within 48 hours" and "Worldwide Free Shipping" notes.
Does it mean Cayin N6 is already on sale worlwide?

 

[Vartan]

 

  On N6 gapless playback is supported?
Is CUE files working without bugs?
 
 
 
Which one would you chose between these two? QA360 (with WAV only firmware) and N6, they are both almost of the same price.
 
 
and one more question, can there be a noticable loss in quaility when converting flac to wav.
 
thanks

Not sure whether the last question was addressed to Andy or the whole community, but I'll answer it myself. There is no loss of quality neither noticable nor imperceptible/(inaudible, but present) when converting flac,alac,ape,tak, wavpack or any other LOSSLESS audio file to WAV. It's also true for the back convertion of WAV-files to any  LOSSLESS format, because such formats as flac, ape, etc. are only the containers, which to a different extent, inherent to the specific format algorithm, COMPRESS the PCM WAV-file without the loss of its quality.
In other words, such lossless formats as flac or ape work similar to ZIP or RAR archivers, but particularly for WAV files: you can compress any files (in our case WAV-files) or extract the contents of archives as many times as you want and still the integrity (in our case audio quality) is ensured.
The only way you lose\deteriorate the sound quality when performing WAV<->FLAC\APE conversion is when the source file parameters and the target file parameters mismatch, e.g. you convert 24 bit 48kHz FLAC to 24 bit 44.1 kHz WAV (or vice versa)...
Thomas, I' ve seen the link (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/cayin-spark-n6-dsd-lossless-music-player-pcm1792a-chip-dsd.html) to Cayin N6 page on Russian forum. There are "In Stock - Shipping within 48 hours" and "Worldwide Free Shipping" notes.
Does it mean Cayin N6 is already on sale worlwide?

The last question addressed to Andykong + community.
Thanks

 

[Happy Hamlet]

This player sounds very interesting, I particularly like the idea of playing SACD ISO files. However, after watching the Youtube video and listening to that awful tune, I fear this player will musakify all my songs

 

[Thomas Cayin]

  Not sure whether the last question was addressed to Andy or the whole community, but I'll answer it myself. There is no loss of quality neither noticable nor imperceptible/(inaudible, but present) when converting flac,alac,ape,tak, wavpack or any other LOSSLESS audio file to WAV. It's also true for the back convertion of WAV-files to any  LOSSLESS format, because such formats as flac, ape, etc. are only the containers, which to a different extent, inherent to the specific format algorithm, COMPRESS the PCM WAV-file without the loss of its quality.
In other words, such lossless formats as flac or ape work similar to ZIP or RAR archivers, but particularly for WAV files: you can compress any files (in our case WAV-files) or extract the contents of archives as many times as you want and still the integrity (in our case audio quality) is ensured.
The only way you lose\deteriorate the sound quality when performing WAV<->FLAC\APE conversion is when the source file parameters and the target file parameters mismatch, e.g. you convert 24 bit 48kHz FLAC to 24 bit 44.1 kHz WAV (or vice versa)...
Thomas, I' ve seen the link (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/cayin-spark-n6-dsd-lossless-music-player-pcm1792a-chip-dsd.html) to Cayin N6 page on Russian forum. There are "In Stock - Shipping within 48 hours" and "Worldwide Free Shipping" notes.
Does it mean Cayin N6 is already on sale worlwide?

Thank you for the information provided.
 
SHENZHAUDIO is located in Shenzhen, one of our distributors in China, they are authorized to sell our products, but only the face of Chinese users.
 
Today is the era of the Internet, through Amazon or EBAY to shell, it is easy to sell goods to the world, but in order to protect the interests of consumers, we have uniform regulations of the retail price, including China and other countries in the world. In foreign countries where we limited retail price is 599 dollars, so the price looks SHENZHAUDIO compliance.
 
Delivery within 48 hours this is not the right, in fact, N6 still in production process, in accordance with the plans and time, is expected to December 16, our first product will be the official line.
 
Anyway, I still recommend buying the product can be lawfully authorized by the local dealer. Thus, a series of follow-up service can be fully guaranteed, at present, we are the world looking for the right agency partners, also made some progress and hope that this will ensure that every consumer can buy or to experience our products.
 
Thank you.

 

[Luvdac]

Guys, has anyone here ordered from the shenzenaudio website before? I followed the link posted above, placed the cayin in the cart and the page asking for my credit card details was NOT encrypted (No 'lock' sign on the address bar) Seems suspect, or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Luvdac]

Its on ebay as well (at least their site is encrypted) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cayin-N6-DSD-lossless-music-player-PCM1792A-chip-DSD-/121512490340

 

[Bellyworshipper]

  Its on ebay as well (at least their site is encrypted) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cayin-N6-DSD-lossless-music-player-PCM1792A-chip-DSD-/121512490340

But it is being sold through the same store. I tend to believe Thomas concerning the availability of the first production batch Cayin N6 units no sooner than December 16th. If I got Thomas right, on SHENZHAUDIO store site you can place a PREorder for Cayin N6, which they disguise as an ORDER. In case SHENZHAUDIO has any Cayin N6 DAPs at their disposal, these must be from preproduction batch, right?  

 

[Andykong]

Thank you, Andy, Thomas, for the answers! And even more for forwarding the reported issues and concerns raised to CAYIN engineers . I guess, it's for the benefit of us all.
For me N6 DAP is the most comprehensive, all-around solution on the market sold at reasonable price (the widest range of audio formats supported thanks to DSD native support, all the basic outs, DoP in USB DAC mode, as far as I know, only TEAC HA-P90SD can boast such a feature). It's a pity it does not support auto switching between folder contents yet. Such a seemingly simple and basic feature is nevertheless abandoned/left unimplemented by many HI-FI DAP vendors even today. I'm sure CAYIN N6 will brake this "tradition", considering the proficiency and dedication of the company engineers. Pity I did not have an opportunity to audition CAYIN N6 and will unlikely have it soon. But I'll sure be drooling over it  

I hope Cayin will enhanced the feature of Folder playback one day, I sure agree that is an useful features, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it in my Beta Test report, but on the other hand, I personally don't think this is a really important feature, it is nice-to-have, but I can live without it. In my experience, once we are into this game for a while, we'll develop our own wish list and the list can be quite long and comprehensive, and it is unlikely that we can find a DAP that fit all our requirements. DAPs are all package of compromised and everyone will just have to pick the players that fit more requirements then others.

I also notice that similar features are not commonly available in other DAP either, maybe this is because the feature is much harder then it look to implement, or maybe because developer didn't perceive the need of this feature in the market. Maybe if you can name a few player that has provided this function, this will provide a good example to Cayin, and they can find a solution to implement the feature by study the player you suggested, and that will be a win-win move.

 

[Andykong]

On N6 gapless playback is supported?
Is CUE files working without bugs?



Which one would you chose between these two? QA360 (with WAV only firmware) and N6, they are both almost of the same price.


and one more question, can there be a noticable loss in quaility when converting flac to wav.

thanks

N6 has gapless function, but not perfect on the Beta machine, I can still hear "gap" on the live concert recordings. Cayin has acknowledged this and set off to work on the Gapless, I have no idea if the newer firmware has improved on that. My Beta machine is on Beta0.07 firmware, and they have tested newer firmware version on the trail production units but my Beta N6 is not compatible with the new firmware, so I can't test it out.

I did not use CUE files, so can't comment on that.

I have compared N360 vs N6 Beta, that is not a direct A/B comparison, but you can take a look on it if you are interested in both player.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/740557/cayin-n6-dap-dual-pcm1792-btl-amplication-circuit-24-192-dsd128-sacd-iso/45#post_11091334

For the record, the comparison was based on a QA360 with WAV only firmware.

 

[Andykong]

But it is being sold through the same store. I tend to believe Thomas concerning the availability of the first production batch Cayin N6 units no sooner than December 16th. If I got Thomas right, on SHENZHAUDIO store site you can place a PREorder for Cayin N6, which they disguise as an ORDER. In case SHENZHAUDIO has any Cayin N6 DAPs at their disposal, these must be from preproduction batch, right?  

I think Luvdac was worried about on-line purchase security but Thomas was concern on post-sales service. The shop is an authorized seller in China, but have not been authorized to sell OUTSIDE China, so if anything happen, Cayin might not be able to back up the transaction or the product at oversee properly. If you must buy from Shenzhaudio, please understand there might be risks that you need to take up with. Thomas said he is"looking for the right agency partners" and is making some progress, so lets hope he find his dealer fast.

 

[Bellyworshipper]

Maybe if you can name a few player that has provided this function, this will provide a good example to Cayin, and they can find a solution to implement the feature by study the player you suggested, and that will be a win-win move.

Unluckily, I can't name a single DAP with this feature supported Even Android-based Calyx M, as far as I know, does not support it. On the other hand such software as PowerAmp for Andriod phones easily enables such a feature, that's why I don't understand why such Android-based DAPs as ibasso DX100 (as far as I know), ibasso DX90 (that I use) and other Android DAPs do not support the feature...Of course, I realize that N6 firmware is not based on Android. I'll try to dig some more info on that
Meanwhile the price of Cayin N6 on SHENZHAUDIO slightly rose to $619.98 point: http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/cayin-spark-n6-dsd-lossless-music-player-pcm1792a-chip-dsd.html 

 

[Andykong]

Unluckily, I can't name a single DAP with this feature supported Even Android-based Calyx M, as far as I know, does not support it. On the other hand such software as PowerAmp for Andriod phones easily enables such a feature, that's why I don't understand why such Android-based DAPs as ibasso DX100 (as far as I know), ibasso DX90 (that I use) and other Android DAPs do not support the feature...Of course, I realize that N6 firmware is not based on Android. I'll try to dig some more info on that
Meanwhile the price of Cayin N6 on SHENZHAUDIO slightly rose to $619.98 point: http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/cayin-spark-n6-dsd-lossless-music-player-pcm1792a-chip-dsd.html 

Well, that said it all, the implementation is probably not as easy as you have stated early, otherwise someone would have done that.

PowerAmp is just one example, I have tried out a lot of DLNA audio player on Android, none has this function that I am looking forwards to. These software company are building their business on software, and yet they don't think the feature is important, which is heartbreaking, but then at the same time, when Cayin don't perceive this as important when I raise the issue, I understand they are doing the right thing by putting resource on the features and function that has a larger market concern, both in terms of user based and current competing products. When a DAP factory don't perceive Poweramp as a competitor, it is difficult to convince them this is a priority item.

$620 is around the actual number calculated from the offical retail price in Mainland China, as Shenzhaudio is a legitimate seller in China only, so it is quite normal that that they adjust their price to fall in line with the official China retail price. I suspect the international price $599 involve small discount from some sort of tax rebate when they product sell out of China, but Shenzhaudio probably can't afford that kind of tax rebate, but this is just a speculation, so read with a grain of salt please.

 

[Bellyworshipper]

Andy, thank you for the reply and all the efforts!

I'm still about to dig some information on folder-to-folder playback support by other DAPs.
Meanwhile, there is one thing, that ails me-such a great number of OP AMPs used in the DAP. Maybe, it's because of the 13 OP AMPS in Cayin N6, which is considered an unlucky number in some cultures

I, personally think, that in the majority of cases the fewer the elements (the simpler the design) the better. There are some people, including my father, who's a process automation engineer with a rich experience and who goes in audio for a hobby, which deem the use of OP AMPs detrimental for the sound (I mean the subjective part of it, or the sound signature-the thing we all strive to adapt to our liking or to find the most personally preferable one, not the measurements). They think so because the OP AMPs generate negative feedbacks, thus suffocating the "sound". Of course, OPAMPs use is essential, even indispensable for the mobile solutions and the manufacturers base their design on their experience and tests results, still... 
Surely, Cayin N6 has a unique design with so many OPAMPs, which are more than twice as many as "only" 6 OPAMPs in my ibasso DX90, but are they really necessary?

Nowadays, so many products boast dual DACs (as Hifiman HM-901, Cayin N6, ibasso DX 90, etc) and many OPAMPs. James FiiO, the FiiO manager and,obviously, a public relations man, written in the FiiO X7 (upcoming FiiO flagship DAP) thread that they are about to use up to 7 (the final number is undecided yet) crystal oscillators (Cayin N6 has three) in X7 design! 
It seems everyone is obsessed with quantity and not the quality these days. Anyways, my post is offtop and expresses only my opinion

 

[Thomas Cayin]

  Andy, thank you for the reply and all the efforts!

I'm still about to dig some information on folder-to-folder playback support by other DAPs.
Meanwhile, there is one thing, that ails me-such a great number of OP AMPs used in the DAP. Maybe, it's because of the 13 OP AMPS in Cayin N6, which is considered an unlucky number in some cultures

I, personally think, that in the majority of cases the fewer the elements (the simpler the design) the better. There are some people, including my father, who's a process automation engineer with a rich experience and who goes in audio for a hobby, which deem the use of OP AMPs detrimental for the sound (I mean the subjective part of it, or the sound signature-the thing we all strive to adapt to our liking or to find the most personally preferable one, not the measurements). They think so because the OP AMPs generate negative feedbacks, thus suffocating the "sound". Of course, OPAMPs use is essential, even indispensable for the mobile solutions and the manufacturers base their design on their experience and tests results, still... 
Surely, Cayin N6 has a unique design with so many OPAMPs, which are more than twice as many as "only" 6 OPAMPs in my ibasso DX90, but are they really necessary?

Nowadays, so many products boast dual DACs (as Hifiman HM-901, Cayin N6, ibasso DX 90, etc) and many OPAMPs. James FiiO, the FiiO manager and,obviously, a public relations man, written in the FiiO X7 (upcoming FiiO flagship DAP) thread that they are about to use up to 7 (the final number is undecided yet) crystal oscillators (Cayin N6 has three) in X7 design! 
It seems everyone is obsessed with quantity and not the quality these days. Anyways, my post is offtop and expresses only my opinion

 
The dual DAC can have a better resolution, the sound becomes more pure from the sense of hearing. No manufacturer just to pursue these designs and increase the number of components, because if the effect, then it becomes increase the cost and give yourself a lot of trouble and increased sales price, so that the product sales difficulties.
 
As for the three and seven crystal oscillator, Oh, I just want to say, PCM audio frequencies with two different frequencies and rate relations, in addition, another single crystal processing DSD audio frequencies, I think need seven crystal reason, of course, FIIO may have their own ideas. in fact, N6 five crystal fact, there are two main and other digital chip clock circuit, but these did not matter with the sound, just to ensure that the circuit's most basic work.