Cayin iDAP-8 streamer and iDAC-8 DAC

[AuxNuke]

Cayin 888+2 Stack Review - Part 1: Digital

• Headphones used for testing: Susvara, Tungsten DS, Utopia 2022, Empyrean II, HD800s, Atrium Open
• I don't test IEM's on desktop class equipment, sorry!
• Build quality on all of these units is excellent! Solid, sturdy, and weighty with satisfying knobs, buttons, and switches. 9/10 with 1 point taken off for the soft but slippery stock feet

iDAC-8
Simply, this is an excellent neutral sounding DAC with no glaring deficiencies. The main characteristics are pin-point imaging, a punchy sound with great attack/decay, and balanced timbre with no harsh or digital tone. Overall tuning is right down the middle without leaning warm or cold, thin or lush, etc. There's excellent low end extension and some liveliness to the sound that keeps this neutral DAC from sounding boring.

Soundstage on the iDAC-8 is acceptable but nothing special. The biggest change from going from the iDAC-8 to the Holo May isn't detail, clarity, or tone; it's the holographic presentation of the May. There is far more soundstage (depth, height, width) and uncanny instrument separation on the May. The May also has the ability to pull out more texture from some instruments; notably piano, acoustic guitar, and cymbals. However, the iDAC-8 does very well here; much better than the Fiio R9 (2 x ES9038Pro) or most Topping DAC's I've tried which can sound slightly digital on some textures.

Notes

• Tube Preamp Stage: Pressing the "Tibre" button switches between a solid state and tube pre-amp stage inside the DAC. Tube mode is interesting in that, it lightly softens the edges of notes while bringing the mids more into focus. This changes the overall tone and is good for poorly recorded music, rock/metal with lots of distortion, or headphones that could otherwise be harsh or sibilant. However, tube mode takes away from the punchy/snappy characteristics of the iDAC-8 and also rolls off that impressive bass. I tend to prefer "transistor" mode on most genres and headphones, but there is a time and place for tube mode.
• There is an audible click (muting relay) before playing any audio or switching between sample rates. This may cut off the first half a second of a song or video. While not a deal breaker for me, its something to consider.
• As with most Delta-Sigma DAC's, the digital filter options have a negligible effect on sound quality. There are ever so slight differences between them but not enough for me to pick out with any reliability. If I had to choose a favorite it would be: Short Delay Sharp Roll Off
• The pre-amp mode works very well and is good for attenuating a hot 4.2V XLR signal into high gain amps. There is no difference in sound quality between line-out and pre-amp modes.
• All digital inputs sound great with no discernible difference in quality between USB, I2S, Optical, AES/EBU, or Coax

iDAP-8
I'll say it up front; the iDAP-8 is by far the weakest of the 888+2 lineup. Reviewing the positives first: The sound quality from any source: streaming services, local network/NAS, onboard HDD/SSD, SD Card is very good. There is no sound quality difference compared to any other high end source that I have and all digital outputs equally sound great. The angled screen is very sharp and plenty bright for a normal desk or audio room setup. The landscape android interface works well enough but, other than the main menus, most fonts / text / button are very small and can be hard to read or interact with from a distance. There have been no crashes or stability issues over the month or so I've been using the device which I can't always say about these type of devices!

Major Issues

• The iDAP-8 is missing major features and is simply WAY too expensive compared the competition. The list price is $1400 and you get a DAP that sits on your desktop. The Eversolo DMP-A6 is a $850 desktop DAP that also includes a dual ES9038Q2M DAC!! Hell, the Fiio R9 retails for $100 more than the iDAC-8 and includes an Android DAP, a dual ESS DAC, DDC functionality, and a 7w+ THX headphone amp! The value of the iDAP-8 is horrible here.
• No DDC functionality. The iDAP-8 has a USB input but it's only used for managing the internal storage. Huge missed opportunity here as other less expensive DAP's can perform DDC successfully.
• No remote control.... for a $1400 device. Yep, you read that right.

Issues that could be fixed with FW Updates

• There is no display sleep or timeout feature. The unit's display will stay on indefinitely unless you manually engage standby mode.
• The power button light blinks when in standby which is fine. But it also blinks when long pressing the power button and fully shutting down the unit. The only way to stop the damn light from blinking is to physically turn off the power rocker switch in the back of the unit.
• No EQ settings. Not sure the feasibility of this without a built in DAC but the competition sure has it...

Unless Cayin significantly reduces the pricing on the iDAP-8, your money is much better spent elsewhere...

 

[AuxNuke]

Cayin 888+2 Stack Review - Part 2: Amps!

iHA-8
The iHA-8 is a modern interpretation of an old school Class A amplifier design. 10w of pure, hot, and power hungry transistor goodness. IMHO, this is a good example of "one amp to rule them all"; you can run you entire collection of headphones to their full potential from this amp. Sound wise, the iHA-8 is generally a neutral tuned amp with a very slight bump to sub bass. It retains all the qualities of most Class A amps: strong dynamics, power for days, and nice control of the drivers (dynamic or planar) that portrays a natural decay to most instruments. This is a well engineered amp with very low noise floor and a lively dynamic sound. There's a good amount of space between instruments and an ethereal quality that makes you stop critical listening and just enjoy the music.

Like most other Class A amps, the iHA-8 is not the absolute benchmark on speed. A THX or op-amp based designs will have a quicker presentation for fast EDM music. For most genres I still think the iHA-8 sounds more natural in presentation, especially compared to most Topping/SMSL designed amps. While the iHA-8 has a very agreeable sound signature, it's not the end-all in soundstage and holographic sound; most tube amps surpass the 3D capabilities of this amp and some high end solid state amps do as well, but you're paying an order of magnitude more (Holo Bliss, Ferrum Oor, Zahl HM1, etc).

Notes

• The iHA-8 runs hot... like really hot. You can't touch the amp case without burning your fingers and even the volume knob gets HOT! The Holo Bliss, another 12w Class A amp runs an order of magnitude cooler. I will say that the amp has never faltered nor has operation been affected by this heat. I'll wait till summer to see for sure; regardless give this thing room to BREATH!
• The stepped volume control is very well implemented here. There is a ton of headroom between low gain, high gain, and high gain + hyper mode.
• Hyper Mode: Kind of a mixed bag. For a headphone like the Tungsten, its great to have the added wattage and voltage to get the most out of it but for others I'm not sure the benefit is clear. Other than a volume increase, I don't hear any readily recognizable sound difference with Hyper mode on or off. However, I will say there is *something* different about Hyper mode that I can't pinpoint quite yet. I need more time than a month with many headphones to come to conclusion here.

HA-2A
Let's get this out there first, the HA-2A is one of the most versatile and least "tubey" valve amps out there. It "just works" with both low and high impedance dynamics along with all planars. Yep, all planars including the power hungry Susvara and voltage starved Tungsten; there is enough power on tap to drive both to more than acceptable levels. Sure, it's no Feliks Envy but the HA-2A holds it's own in the power dept! Sound wise, the HA-2A sounds more like a solid state amp than a traditional warm, lush, and bloomy OTL amp. There's still some nice tube-like additions; the presentation has a 3D effect and transients are bit relaxed/softened compared to other aggressive amps. The rest of the sound is fast, clean, and balanced with a ever-so-slight bias towards midrange; there is no sub bass or upper treble roll off here like some other tube amps.

If you're looking for flaws, there's a bit of congestion in very busy tracks and some tracks can sound a little flat or lack punch, especially if you A-B with a powerful solid state amp. Loud tracks can become a "wall of sound" and lose that dimensionality that's portrayed in more balanced tracks. Compared to solid state amps, the HA-2A has an overall "looser" sound with a bit of resonance or harmonics throughout the listening experience. I actually find this to add to the experience as it is a nice change-up to the black background and ultra fast decay of solid state amps... but it's technically inferior on most genres.

Notes

• The HA-2A is a single ended amp. If you're using a 4.0V or greater balanced XLR input the volume is HOT coming out of the 4 pin XLR, even on the lowest impedance setting. This is especially apparent on low impedance dynamics (Focal Utopia / Clear) where there is very little room on the volume knob before it's too loud; you can get a bit of channel imbalance there. It's best to attenuate with a pre-amp, use the lower output 1/4" or 4.4mm jack, or simply run unbalanced RCA from your DAC to the HA-2A. Even on line level 2V RCA from a DAC there is plenty of headroom for Susvara on the M or H impedance setting.
• The included tube cage is an ABSOLUTE MUST if you're placing the HA-2A anywhere near other electronics. This amp will pickup interference from anywhere... thankfully the cage completely mitigates this.

Let me know if you have any questions.
- Aux

 

[Erick Muller]

Cayin 888+2 Stack Review - Part 2: Amps!

iHA-8
The iHA-8 is a modern interpretation of an old school Class A amplifier design. 10w of pure, hot, and power hungry transistor goodness. IMHO, this is a good example of "one amp to rule them all"; you can run you entire collection of headphones to their full potential from this amp. Sound wise, the iHA-8 is generally a neutral tuned amp with a very slight bump to sub bass. It retains all the qualities of most Class A amps: strong dynamics, power for days, and nice control of the drivers (dynamic or planar) that portrays a natural decay to most instruments. This is a well engineered amp with very low noise floor and a lively dynamic sound. There's a good amount of space between instruments and an ethereal quality that makes you stop critical listening and just enjoy the music.

Like most other Class A amps, the iHA-8 is not the absolute benchmark on speed. A THX or op-amp based designs will have a quicker presentation for fast EDM music. For most genres I still think the iHA-8 sounds more natural in presentation, especially compared to most Topping/SMSL designed amps. While the iHA-8 has a very agreeable sound signature, it's not the end-all in soundstage and holographic sound; most tube amps surpass the 3D capabilities of this amp and some high end solid state amps do as well, but you're paying an order of magnitude more (Holo Bliss, Ferrum Oor, Zahl HM1, etc).

Notes

• The iHA-8 runs hot... like really hot. You can't touch the amp case without burning your fingers and even the volume knob gets HOT! The Holo Bliss, another 12w Class A amp runs an order of magnitude cooler. I will say that the amp has never faltered nor has operation been affected by this heat. I'll wait till summer to see for sure; regardless give this thing room to BREATH!
• The stepped volume control is very well implemented here. There is a ton of headroom between low gain, high gain, and high gain + hyper mode.
• Hyper Mode: Kind of a mixed bag. For a headphone like the Tungsten, its great to have the added wattage and voltage to get the most out of it but for others I'm not sure the benefit is clear. Other than a volume increase, I don't hear any readily recognizable sound difference with Hyper mode on or off. However, I will say there is *something* different about Hyper mode that I can't pinpoint quite yet. I need more time than a month with many headphones to come to conclusion here.

Great review my friend, I'm glad we're getting more impressions of these products from more people since we've been kind of starved in this regard when it comes to this kind of content.

I had the iHA-8 for a couple of weeks now, I have tried it both with the Goldenwave Serenade and the Cyan 2 with plenty of headphones, right now I'm running the iHA-8 on pre-amp mode and the Serenade is controlling the volume via its own build-in pre-amp, I found that in my set-up, with the headphones I use and the music a listen to, which is mostly rock, pop and EDM with some jazz and more instrumental music to break from modern music genres, sounds the best and I get a lot of dynamics and punch from this amp, the Cyan 2 was less to my preference, in comparison to the serenade it just sounds more lean, specially in the bass and it seems that holo products tend to focus more on the mid range which in combination with the iHA-8, it was just becoming too shouty, peaky and honky sounding, specially with female vocalist, the serenade is just a more relaxed listening experience in that regard while still being super engaging, is just a more smooth listetning experience.

Idk if your tried the pre mode on the iHA-8 in conjuction with the iDAC-8 in both transistor and tube modes? I think we need more impresions of this mode of operation to the iHA-8 because I have noticed that it changes a bit the sound, it's probably schewing a little bit more towards what the pre-amp's sounds character, it's subtle but noticeable when changing between modes.

With Hyper mode, the main difference I have noticed it's that it becomes much more incisive, the bass becomes a little bit thighter, but where I noticed the change more was not with music but watching YT videos like podcast and a lot of spoke word content, it can get kind of fatiguing after and while a turning off hyper mode it'sa little bit more relaxed

The fact that the iHA-8 is comparing favorably to much higher end amps in your review.

HA-2A
Let's get this out there first, the HA-2A is one of the most versatile and least "tubey" valve amps out there. It "just works" with both low and high impedance dynamics along with all planars. Yep, all planars including the power hungry Susvara and voltage starved Tungsten; there is enough power on tap to drive both to more than acceptable levels. Sure, it's no Feliks Envy but the HA-2A holds it's own in the power dept! Sound wise, the HA-2A sounds more like a solid state amp than a traditional warm, lush, and bloomy OTL amp. There's still some nice tube-like additions; the presentation has a 3D effect and transients are bit relaxed/softened compared to other aggressive amps. The rest of the sound is fast, clean, and balanced with a ever-so-slight bias towards midrange; there is no sub bass or upper treble roll off here like some other tube amps.

If you're looking for flaws, there's a bit of congestion in very busy tracks and some tracks can sound a little flat or lack punch, especially if you A-B with a powerful solid state amp. Loud tracks can become a "wall of sound" and lose that dimensionality that's portrayed in more balanced tracks. Compared to solid state amps, the HA-2A has an overall "looser" sound with a bit of resonance or harmonics throughout the listening experience. I actually find this to add to the experience as it is a nice change-up to the black background and ultra fast decay of solid state amps... but it's technically inferior on most genres.

Notes

• The HA-2A is a single ended amp. If you're using a 4.0V or greater balanced XLR input the volume is HOT coming out of the 4 pin XLR, even on the lowest impedance setting. This is especially apparent on low impedance dynamics (Focal Utopia / Clear) where there is very little room on the volume knob before it's too loud; you can get a bit of channel imbalance there. It's best to attenuate with a pre-amp, use the lower output 1/4" or 4.4mm jack, or simply run unbalanced RCA from your DAC to the HA-2A. Even on line level 2V RCA from a DAC there is plenty of headroom for Susvara on the M or H impedance setting.
• The included tube cage is an ABSOLUTE MUST if you're placing the HA-2A anywhere near other electronics. This amp will pickup interference from anywhere... thankfully the cage completely mitigates this.

Let me know if you have any questions.
- Aux

 

[BJPromo]

I have the choice between a new iDAC-8 and a used Hugo 2 for desktop use, both to feed a Feliks Evo Euforia.

The Hugo 2 is versatile and well-known, albeit long in the tooth. I have not heard any desktop Cayin gear, though I do like my N7 + C9 portable and am a fan of Cayin's approach and customer service.

I enjoyed @NJoyzAudio 's review, but is there anybody else who has used the iDAC-8 extensively to feed a tube amp? Would you say it lends itself well to something like this? Primarily to drive my ZMF VC.

Thanks to anyone who can steer me on or off course!

 

[project86]

I have the choice between a new iDAC-8 and a used Hugo 2 for desktop use, both to feed a Feliks Evo Euforia.

The Hugo 2 is versatile and well-known, albeit long in the tooth. I have not heard any desktop Cayin gear, though I do like my N7 + C9 portable and am a fan of Cayin's approach and customer service.

I enjoyed @NJoyzAudio 's review, but is there anybody else who has used the iDAC-8 extensively to feed a tube amp? Would you say it lends itself well to something like this? Primarily to drive my ZMF VC.

Thanks to anyone who can steer me on or off course!

I've never been a huge fan of the Hugo 2 but do think pairing it with Euforia would likely be a pretty good experience. Especially compared to using the average solid-state amp or, even worse, the integrated headphone out on the Hugo 2.

That said I personally would rather have the iDAC-8. I've been using it with the Cayin HA-6A, HA-2A, HA-1A mkII, Feliks Echo, and a few others - always with really positive results. It's also super versatile with the different adjustments on board for fine tuning.

 

[BJPromo]

I've never been a huge fan of the Hugo 2 but do think pairing it with Euforia would likely be a pretty good experience. Especially compared to using the average solid-state amp or, even worse, the integrated headphone out on the Hugo 2.

That said I personally would rather have the iDAC-8. I've been using it with the Cayin HA-6A, HA-2A, HA-1A mkII, Feliks Echo, and a few others - always with really positive results. It's also super versatile with the different adjustments on board for fine tuning.

Thank you for the balanced reply, that's a nice way of answering the question so that I feel good about either decision.

I wish I could get the HA-6A where I live. The only Cayin tube amp I have access to that's already in country is the Soul 170HA, which I would love but just cannot afford this year.

For the DAC I may go for the Hugo 2 this time as it'll be easier to resell where I live, or just take to the office when I replace it with a better desktop amp for home further down the line. I do appreciate your response though and trust your opinion having read a bunch of your reviews. Thanks

 

[project86]

Definitely nothing wrong with the Hugo 2! It's a popular device for a reason, and when pairing it with the Euforia I'm confident you'll get an enjoyable sound. And, as you said, very easy to flip if/when you want to try a different option.

 

[EagleWings]

I’d recommend trying the line out from your N7 and the Mojo2, if you haven’t already paid for a Hugo2. I started off the desktop hobby with the Hugo2 as a DAC feeding my EC BW2 and when I tried Cayin N8’s line out, it was a revelation. I hands down preferred the N8. If you prefer the Mojo2’s LO over N7’s, then it might make sense to shell out for the Hugo2.

 

[BJPromo]

I’d recommend trying the line out from your N7 and the Mojo2, if you haven’t already paid for a Hugo2. I started off the desktop hobby with the Hugo2 as a DAC feeding my EC BW2 and when I tried Cayin N8’s line out, it was a revelation. I hands down preferred the N8. If you prefer the Mojo2’s LO over N7’s, then it might make sense to shell out for the Hugo2.

Thanks that's a good approach. I know that Mojo 2 LO is not great and I would choose both my N7 and iBasso D16 over the Mojo 2 any day.

I had hoped that Hugo 2 would perform a lot better than Mojo 2 in LO but maybe that's naive.

So rather than choosing between Hugo 2 and IDAC-8 I'll get both Hugo 2 to replace Mojo 2 for office use with IEMs, and the Cayin for desktop amp at home.

Thanks again!

 

[EagleWings]

Thanks that's a good approach. I know that Mojo 2 LO is not great and I would choose both my N7 and iBasso D16 over the Mojo 2 any day.

I had hoped that Hugo 2 would perform a lot better than Mojo 2 in LO but maybe that's naive.

So rather than choosing between Hugo 2 and IDAC-8 I'll get both Hugo 2 to replace Mojo 2 for office use with IEMs, and the Cayin for desktop amp at home.

Thanks again!

Yea the limitations of Mojo2’s LO is going to be present even with the Hugo2. What you’ll gain is the better performance of the H2. I do prefer the tonal balance of the M2.

Please tag me when you share some impressions on the iDAC8. I’m curious how it compares to the N7’s and D16’s LO.

 

[Ethuleon]

Thank you for the balanced reply, that's a nice way of answering the question so that I feel good about either decision.

I wish I could get the HA-6A where I live. The only Cayin tube amp I have access to that's already in country is the Soul 170HA, which I would love but just cannot afford this year.

For the DAC I may go for the Hugo 2 this time as it'll be easier to resell where I live, or just take to the office when I replace it with a better desktop amp for home further down the line. I do appreciate your response though and trust your opinion having read a bunch of your reviews. Thanks

I own the HA-6A ... and have a Soul 170HA incoming. Can report on the differences once it arrives and is burned in

 

[BJPromo]

I own the HA-6A ... and have a Soul 170HA incoming. Can report on the differences once it arrives and is burned in

Dang that's a nice setup. I am highly tempted by the Soul 170HA even if it is beyond my reach atm. I'm reading through the Feliks Euforia Evo thread and can already see myself wondering how much better would the Soul have been...

 

[Ethuleon]

I have an Euforia Evo as well. I plsn to sell it once the Soul arrives. In case you are interested

 

[BJPromo]

Thanks but in the end I'm all in on an Envy I'm too far away for an amp to be shipped to me anyway but GLWS

 

[Ethuleon]

The Envy will certainly be a fine choice. Enjoy it! Greetings from Hungary to Fiji