[mfgillia]

You have a very good point. I am not 100% convinced the amp has a fault because based on other people's comments from this forum the ZMF VC is not totally silent with 300B and Zack has recommended using the 4.4 balance which I have tried and it is indeed almost silent (have to listen hard for the low buzz). In short, I can have an almost silent experience but I prefer the better dynamics of the XLR output hence trying o minimize the low buzz. I am also convinced my power line is dirty as connecting the amp directly to the power outlet increased the noise. Would love to hear from someone who has ZMF VC and plug their amp into the power outlet directly and did not hear any noise at all on the XLR output. So far, I have not seen confirmation. The amp has 2 years warranty so returning it is definitely on the cards

So after reading your post I decided to test again my Atriums and VCs using the 4.4 and xlr outputs. My Cayin is using Elrogs ER300Bs and Linlai Global Elites.

With the 4.4 I hear no hum, hiss or static with my Spring 3 KTE on mute for both the Atrium and VC. Off-mute, I also hear no hum or static. Once the volume gets around one and two oclock I can start to hear some background noise / hiss out of the VC and Atrium respectively.

With the xlr its a similar story for the Atriums. For the VCs however I immediately hear some low level hum and some intermittent static out of the right channel even with the Spring on mute. Off-mute is about the same until the volume gets to around 12 oclock then the background noise / hiss kicks in.

In my situation I'm pretty happy as I just use 4.4 most of the time and this works out well to my ears. However, it took some time to get the 4.4 perfectly silent at my listening volumes. After a few weeks of running the Cayin I started hearing some static out of the right channel on most days. I replaced the extension cord with the Power Plant 3 and still had that noise. Then replaced the stock tungsols with the Linlais and that did the trick - background was much darker and no more static.

 

[tdx]

So after reading your post I decided to test again my Atriums and VCs using the 4.4 and xlr outputs. My Cayin is using Elrogs ER300Bs and Linlai Global Elites.

With the 4.4 I hear no hum, hiss or static with my Spring 3 KTE on mute for both the Atrium and VC. Off-mute, I also hear no hum or static. Once the volume gets around one and two oclock I can start to hear some background noise / hiss out of the VC and Atrium respectively.

With the xlr its a similar story for the Atriums. For the VCs however I immediately hear some low level hum and some intermittent static out of the right channel even with the Spring on mute. Off-mute is about the same until the volume gets to around 12 oclock then the background noise / hiss kicks in.

In my situation I'm pretty happy as I just use 4.4 most of the time and this works out well to my ears. However, it took some time to get the 4.4 perfectly silent at my listening volumes. After a few weeks of running the Cayin I started hearing some static out of the right channel on most days. I replaced the extension cord with the Power Plant 3 and still had that noise. Then replaced the stock tungsols with the Linlais and that did the trick - background was much darker and no more static.

Different question, how is the combo of Elrogs with Linlais on the Cayin? I have the Linlais paired with Takatsuki 300Bs and i find the resulting sound clear and refined but lacking in emotion and weight. Do you think swapping the Takas for Elrogs would fix this? Thanks

 

[paradoxper]

Different question, how is the combo of Elrogs with Linlais on the Cayin? I have the Linlais paired with Takatsuki 300Bs and i find the resulting sound clear and refined but lacking in emotion and weight. Do you think swapping the Takas for Elrogs would fix this? Thanks

That's exactly what the Elrogs will define, however, you could also likely swap the Linlai for MELZ, TSBP or RCA grey glass to provide a lift.
All of the current production 6SN7 are pretty dry and tired compared to NOS counterparts.

 

[mfgillia]

Different question, how is the combo of Elrogs with Linlais on the Cayin? I have the Linlais paired with Takatsuki 300Bs and i find the resulting sound clear and refined but lacking in emotion and weight. Do you think swapping the Takas for Elrogs would fix this? Thanks

Somewhat but I suspect pairing the Elrogs with a different pair of 6sn7s may be more optimal.

My first swap was the Gold Lions for the Elrogs and that was a pretty noticeable upgrade particularly on the low end / weight side of things. Then the noise issue out of the right channel started to develop, which eventually lead to swapping out the Tungsols for the Linlais.

Compared to the Elrogs with the stock Tungsols, the Linlais are much quieter overall and has a bit more of that holographic, wider sound stage with slightly less precise imaging. But the most noticably difference to me by far is the sub-bass / bass - its noticably less energetic than the Tungsols.

I still think the sound with the Linlais conveys plenty of emotion more than the Tungsols in some ways but has less weight to my ears. Therefore, my search for another pair of 6sn7s to pair with the Elrogs continues.

 

[ColSaulTigh]

Somewhat but I suspect pairing the Elrogs with a different pair of 6sn7s may be more optimal.

My first swap was the Gold Lions for the Elrogs and that was a pretty noticeable upgrade particularly on the low end / weight side of things. Then the noise issue out of the right channel started to develop, which eventually lead to swapping out the Tungsols for the Linlais.

Compared to the Elrogs with the stock Tungsols, the Linlais are much quieter overall and has a bit more of that holographic, wider sound stage with slightly less precise imaging. But the most noticably difference to me by far is the sub-bass / bass - its noticably less energetic than the Tungsols.

I still think the sound with the Linlais conveys plenty of emotion more than the Tungsols in some ways but has less weight to my ears. Therefore, my search for another pair of 6sn7s to pair with the Elrogs continues.

You might want to look outside the realm of 6SN7's for some weight and gravitas. As @paradoxper said, the current batch of 6SN7's are a bit dry and lifeless (IMO). I'm currently on a 6F8G kick, which add a nice richness, slickness, and "wet" sound to everything. You can find good NOS pairs on eBay for $150 or so, and the prize ones (Tung-Sol BGRP) are around $550-$600 for a '40's NOS pair. You need adapters, but they can be found from $20/pr on ebay (although I go Woo Audio, $90 ea).

Once you start looking outside the 6SN7 realm there's a world of possibilities. Just be sure to check the specifics of your amplifier to ensure yours can handle them.

 

[mfgillia]

You might want to look outside the realm of 6SN7's for some weight and gravitas. As @paradoxper said, the current batch of 6SN7's are a bit dry and lifeless (IMO). I'm currently on a 6F8G kick, which add a nice richness, slickness, and "wet" sound to everything. You can find good NOS pairs on eBay for $150 or so, and the prize ones (Tung-Sol BGRP) are around $550-$600 for a '40's NOS pair. You need adapters, but they can be found from $20/pr on ebay (although I go Woo Audio, $90 ea).

Once you start looking outside the 6SN7 realm there's a world of possibilities. Just be sure to check the specifics of your amplifier to ensure yours can handle them.

Much thanks for the suggestion. That does sounds like a great idea - going after some 6F8Gs versus keep searching for increasingly harder to find NOS 6sn7s with potentially dubious QC issues. I also recall Zach at ZMF was recommending this path as well.

I will probably go for the the Woo Audio adapters too versus less familar options on Ebay despite the noticeable price premium.

 

[JeffMann]

You might want to look outside the realm of 6SN7's for some weight and gravitas. As @paradoxper said, the current batch of 6SN7's are a bit dry and lifeless (IMO). I'm currently on a 6F8G kick, which add a nice richness, slickness, and "wet" sound to everything. You can find good NOS pairs on eBay for $150 or so, and the prize ones (Tung-Sol BGRP) are around $550-$600 for a '40's NOS pair. You need adapters, but they can be found from $20/pr on ebay (although I go Woo Audio, $90 ea).

Once you start looking outside the 6SN7 realm there's a world of possibilities. Just be sure to check the specifics of your amplifier to ensure yours can handle them.

When I did a google search for NOS 6F8G tubes, I noted that they were all used and I could not find any that were new (unused). How does one find unused samples as I presume that used samples are going to have a much shorter lifespan?

Jeff.

 

[JeffMann]

That's exactly what the Elrogs will define, however, you could also likely swap the Linlai for MELZ, TSBP or RCA grey glass to provide a lift.
All of the current production 6SN7 are pretty dry and tired compared to NOS counterparts.

You state that all of the current production 6sn7 tubes are "tired". What do you mean by describing the musical sound being produced by a headphone as being "tired"?

Also, have you auditioned all the current production 6sn7 tubes eg. Psvane CV181-TII and the Linlai Elite 6sn7 tube?

Jeff.

 

[paradoxper]

You state that all of the current production 6sn7 tubes are "tired". What do you mean by describing the musical sound being produced by a headphone as being "tired"?

Also, have you auditioned all the current production 6sn7 tubes eg. Psvane CV181-TII and the Linlai Elite 6sn7 tube?

Jeff.

Lacking expressive flow i.e. extension at both ends.
I've heard all the big 3 circulation Psvane/Linlai/Shuguang > Treasure series, Elite, the best is the Sophia Electric Aqua for some warmth and bloom but they just don't hold up to a MELZ, TS or Ken-Rad NOS.

 

[jamato8]

I have a lot of tubes, NOS (not selling so please don't take this as an advertisement), and thought I had some 6F8G. I looked in my walk-in closet and there is a box of them. Different brands, NOS. Seems I liked the 12SN7 better. That is the shame, instead of 6SN7, they should also make the amp with a simple to employ 12.6 voltage for the filament and then you have the quieter 12SN7 tube to use that is also less expensive.

 

[Wes S]

Lacking expressive flow i.e. extension at both ends.
I've heard all the big 3 circulation Psvane/Linlai/Shuguang > Treasure series, Elite, the best is the Sophia Electric Aqua for some warmth and bloom but they just don't hold up to a MELZ, TS or Ken-Rad NOS.

. . .or RFT NOS.

 

[incredulousity]

I have a lot of tubes, NOS (not selling so please don't take this as an advertisement), and thought I had some 6F8G. I looked in my walk-in closet and there is a box of them. Different brands, NOS. Seems I liked the 12SN7 better. That is the shame, instead of 6SN7, they should also make the amp with a simple to employ 12.6 voltage for the filament and then you have the quieter 12SN7 tube to use that is also less expensive.

Hmmm. I have just such an external power supply by @Deyan for my GU-50 tubes on Euforia. Maybe time to order some powered 6SN7 to 12SN7 adapters for giggles or perhaps more.

 

[jamato8]

Hmmm. I have just such an external power supply by @Deyan for my GU-50 tubes on Euforia. Maybe time to order some powered 6SN7 to 12SN7 adapters for giggles or perhaps more.

You need the amp to supply the 12.6 volts to the filament. There aren't any adapters. The LTA MZ3 has a switch to go from 6SN7 to 12SN7 tubes. It is very simple but you need the transformer to supply 12.6 volts.

 

[incredulousity]

I understand. I have done this before, but that is even better that 12SN7 has the same pin configuration; I did not know that. I happen to have 6SN7 socket savers with external heater current connection, which will do the trick, then.

Now people please recommend some good 12SN7 tubes to try!

 

[ThanatosVI]

I understand. I have done this before, but that is even better that 12SN7 has the same pin configuration; I did not know that. I happen to have 6SN7 socket savers with external heater current connection, which will do the trick, then.

Now people please recommend some good 12SN7 tubes to try!

I'm confused.
Don't 12SN7 need twice the voltage?
As far as I understand they won't need extra current but Don't work in a 6.3V curcuit