Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable HeadAmp

[Whitigir]

I agree the Diablo and C9 have different use cases, but hopefully someone will be able to compare the sound quality at some point. Both have high powered amps in a portable size, which is why I think they are worth comparing. Maybe at some point I'll get the C9, since I already have the Diablo.

Talk about Amp! The C9 is all discrete, and Diablo is Opamp based

 

[markel]

C9 should sound much better, especially with all its impressive specs, but still would be nice to know the difference. Another, maybe more relevant, question is how would it compare to something like the ZMF Pendant?

 

[eskamobob1]

I agree the Diablo and C9 have different use cases, but hopefully someone will be able to compare the sound quality at some point. Both have high powered amps in a portable size, which is why I think they are worth comparing. Maybe at some point I'll get the C9, since I already have the Diablo.

You are going to have to be way more specific if you want any kind of valid comparison. The C9 has no DAC at all and the diablo has no analogue input, so at the bare minimum we would need a dac you want paired with the C9. The Micro BL would be a much better comparison (as it takes line in) than the diablo or sig would be IMO. BX2+, BA300S, Chimera, WA8, HD8, stuff like that is a much more valid comparison as they all can operate as pure amps.

EDIT: Yah, IMO, the pendant is a far more valid comparison, but I wouldn't exactly expect much given the pendants price range and not having the portable limitations. I am personally quite curious how the C9 stacks up, purely in terms of resolution, against stuff like the A90, Dyanlo, and even GSX Mini (though that again is a pendant situation). No one seems to ever talk about the resolving capabilities of portable amps and i find it kind of annoying tbh. makes it very hard to judge just how good one is apart from feature list

 

[bluestorm1992]

I will be receiving an audition unit of the VE Elysium over the weekend, so I will prospone the review part #2 a bit to include the impression with Elysium.

Speaking of this, I am actually debating between Elysium and Verite closed as my next purchase. Both of them seem like a promising pairing with C9.

 

[Bosk]

Yes, this should works fine.

In my experience, the longer your cable, the more important is the shielding design, maybe even more important than the material of the conductor at some point. Litz cable with PCV coat should offer good shielding for 60 cm. For complete peace of mind, you can look for four core cable with each conductor reussen shielded, or multi-strand cable with a braid shield, and then connect the shield to the GND pin of the two 4.4mm connector.

Sorry it's dragging things slightly OT, but I'm currently using an unshielded non-litz 70cm silver 8-core 3.5mm interconnect between my DAP & amp. Do you think for a cable of this length there might be much benefit in adding a layer or two of shielding? I know braiding offers RFI rejection of sorts, but of course the really pricey analog interconnects out there (Nordost etc.) are generally shielded and often elaborately so. Very interested to get your thoughts.

 

[xand]

How does it compare to the iDSD Diablo?

I was choosing between the Focal Arche and some DAP (or portable dac/amp), for Utopia. I demoed a bunch, including the Diablo (iPhone 12 pro, with purifier 3, Light Harmonic Lightspeed 1G, USB 3 apple CCK), iFi Signature (iPhone with USB 2 apple CCK), DX300, and Focal Arche (iPhone, Lightspeed 1G, Naim powerline and stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable).

I was quite keen that whatever I bought be transportable, and it was important that it also be notably better than my existing gear (else why bother buying anything) - I have a Naim DAC-V1 and a Geek Pulse/LPS.

I ultimately bought the DX300 + C9. Note that the Arche was close, and better in some ways than the combination, but the transportability made the DX300 + C9 worth the extra cost. I did think the DX300 + C9 was much better than anything else I heard without the C9...

I really wanted to like the Diablo, and I did think it was better than the existing gear, but it wasn't even close to the DX300 + C9 combination. I didn't have the opportunity to try the Diablo into the C9 - different shop.

In hindsight, as I write this, and because I very slightly preferred the Signature to the Diablo, I realise there's a chance that a contributing factor to my choice could have been the headphone cables: I demoed the Diablo using the stock unbalanced cable (I didn't own and that shop didn't have a demo of a balanced 4.4mm -> Utopia cable, or a 4.4mm to XLR 4-pin converter so I could use the Utopia's stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable), but all of the rest using a balanced Ares Audio Twilight (silver) cable (which I eventually bought too) ...

C9 should sound much better, especially with all its impressive specs...

I actually think the Diablo's specifications are somewhat more impressive given the size and price point...

 

[DaYooper]

So let me ask this about cables. Am I supposed to believe that a mediocre cable can turn an otherwise wonderful piece of equipment into a garbage can? or the other way around that the Creator's gift to cables can make a garbage can sound like a heavenly choir?

 

[xand]

If you said you are not going to change anything for 3 months, I probably will applause your plan, but 3 years? seriously? that doesn't sound convincing at all.

Hey now. Believing in the man is the least we can do. He is just saying the exact same thing I say when I buy an expensive new toy every month......

THANKS!!!

It's... somewhat(?) realistic, before Utopia, my last REAL personal audio purchase was the Zeus XR in 2016! (Okay, I have bought powerbeats pro, and both the Sony WH3 and XM3 inbetween, but they don't realllllly count right). Actually I've also bought speakers lol.

I have bought other expensive toys, but generally not monthly...

 

[xand]

How about a crossed layout, with C9 in the bottom vertically, and DAP on top horizontally, and keeping 10mm gap between them?

Good idea! Will consider.

In my experience, the longer your cable, the more important is the shielding design, maybe even more important than the material of the conductor at some point. Litz cable with PCV coat should offer good shielding for 60 cm. For complete peace of mind, you can look for four core cable with each conductor reussen shielded, or multi-strand cable with a braid shield, and then connect the shield to the GND pin of the two 4.4mm connector.

Ahh, can't find anything with this shielding easily ... will look around more, but do you have any particular suggestions (no DIY please)?

Sorry it's dragging things slightly OT, but I'm currently using an unshielded non-litz 70cm silver 8-core 3.5mm interconnect between my DAP & amp. Do you think for a cable of this length there might be much benefit in adding a layer or two of shielding? I know braiding offers RFI rejection of sorts, but of course the really pricey analog interconnects out there (Nordost etc.) are generally shielded and often elaborately so. Very interested to get your thoughts.

I would at least demo a balanced 4.4mm to 4.4mm connection - just compare what you're using to the stock 4.4mm cable the C9 ships with? While I don't generally think using balanced headphone cables is terribly important (but see my post on what I demoed, and note that this is assuming that the unbalanced amp output produces sufficient power), I think it's quite accepted than using a balanced connection between source and amp is beneficial.

So let me ask this about cables. Am I supposed to believe that a mediocre cable can turn an otherwise wonderful piece of equipment into a garbage can? or the other way around that the Creator's gift to cables can make a garbage can sound like a heavenly choir?

I don't believe that... Actually I'm not sure anyone does. The general guideline is cables should be 10% of system cost at the most right?

 

[Whitigir]

So let me ask this about cables. Am I supposed to believe that a mediocre cable can turn an otherwise wonderful piece of equipment into a garbage can? or the other way around that the Creator's gift to cables can make a garbage can sound like a heavenly choir?

Excellent questions but here is what I think

1/ Cables should be the last in the chain
2/ Well designed and good equipments will benefits from the cables, the better the cables, the better the last % will be squeezed out
3/ No expensive cables can make chicken poops into chicken soups....it means, no expensive cables can make your radio shack MP3 players to become a high-res and DSD512 capable ...lol

Good idea! Will consider.



Ahh, can't find anything with this shielding easily ... will look around more, but do you have any particular suggestions (no DIY please)?



I would at least demo a balanced 4.4mm to 4.4mm connection - just compare what you're using to the stock 4.4mm cable the C9 ships with? While I don't generally think using balanced headphone cables is terribly important (but see my post on what I demoed, and note that this is assuming that the unbalanced amp output produces sufficient power), I think it's quite accepted than using a balanced connection between source and amp is beneficial.



I don't believe that... Actually I'm not sure anyone does. The general guideline is cables should be 10% of system cost at the most right?

it depends on your desires, do you want to squeeze the 5% more ? Or do you want to squeeze 1% more out of your system ? LoL. You gotta judge it based on an “auditions” though

 

[KickAssChewGum]

I will be receiving an audition unit of the VE Elysium over the weekend, so I will prospone the review part #2 a bit to include the impression with Elysium.

Speaking of this, I am actually debating between Elysium and Verite closed as my next purchase. Both of them seem like a promising pairing with C9.

Very keen to hear your thoughts on the Elysium pairing as I’m thinking about getting them too. Keep up the great work!

 

[eskamobob1]

I don't believe that... Actually I'm not sure anyone does. The general guideline is cables should be 10% of system cost at the most right?

People 10,000% believe this.

 

[xand]

Excellent questions but here is what I think

1/ Cables should be the last in the chain
2/ Well designed and good equipments will benefits from the cables, the better the cables, the better the last % will be squeezed out
3/ No expensive cables can make chicken poops into chicken soups....it means, no expensive cables can make your radio shack MP3 players to become a high-res and DSD512 capable ...lol

it depends on your desires, do you want to squeeze the 5% more ? Or do you want to squeeze 1% more out of your system ? LoL. You gotta judge it based on an “auditions” though

I want a 60cm cable which isn't materially worse than the stock cable....

 

[markel]

\

I was choosing between the Focal Arche and some DAP (or portable dac/amp), for Utopia. I demoed a bunch, including the Diablo (iPhone 12 pro, with purifier 3, Light Harmonic Lightspeed 1G, USB 3 apple CCK), iFi Signature (iPhone with USB 2 apple CCK), DX300, and Focal Arche (iPhone, Lightspeed 1G, Naim powerline and stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable).

I was quite keen that whatever I bought be transportable, and it was important that it also be notably better than my existing gear (else why bother buying anything) - I have a Naim DAC-V1 and a Geek Pulse/LPS.

I ultimately bought the DX300 + C9. Note that the Arche was close, and better in some ways than the combination, but the transportability made the DX300 + C9 worth the extra cost. I did think the DX300 + C9 was much better than anything else I heard without the C9...

I really wanted to like the Diablo, and I did think it was better than the existing gear, but it wasn't even close to the DX300 + C9 combination. I didn't have the opportunity to try the Diablo into the C9 - different shop.

In hindsight, as I write this, and because I very slightly preferred the Signature to the Diablo, I realise there's a chance that a contributing factor to my choice could have been the headphone cables: I demoed the Diablo using the stock unbalanced cable (I didn't own and that shop didn't have a demo of a balanced 4.4mm -> Utopia cable, or a 4.4mm to XLR 4-pin converter so I could use the Utopia's stock XLR 4-pin balanced cable), but all of the rest using a balanced Ares Audio Twilight (silver) cable (which I eventually bought too) ...



I actually think the Diablo's specifications are somewhat more impressive given the size and price point...

Adding the DX300 in the chain as a transport/DAC probably made a big difference. When I connected the iPhone or Android phone to the Diablo as a transport it wasn't any where near as good as connecting a laptop with the purifier3 or connecting the Sony NW-WM1A (which sounded best). I don't think cables have as much impact.

 

[xand]

Adding the DX300 in the chain as a transport/DAC probably made a big difference. When I connected the iPhone or Android phone to the Diablo as a transport it wasn't any where near as good as connecting a laptop with the purifier3 or connecting the Sony NW-WM1A (which sounded best). I don't think cables have as much impact.

Ah - unfortunately I didn't own any DAP...

I did consider whether my source was poor actually - but the Naim was better out of the iPhone than my desktop (maybe my desktop is awful).... and ultimately I wanted something either phone or DAP driven for transportability.

Anyhow, hope that helped!

I think the bottom line is, if you're considering the C9, you should demo it. Since you have a 1A already, maybe try that as a source directly plus use the Diablo as a DAC? Then you can post your impressions and it might help someone else...

However as Andy has mentioned, it's possible that desktop tubes might do better - I'd consider these:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/im-sailing-away/5367/86

plus Feliks Euphoria (and the anniversary variant), Mcintosh mha200, Cayin HA6A and 300A...

Again, I suggest a demo...