Cayin C9: Dual Nutube, Fully Balanced Class A/AB Portable HeadAmp

[Whitigir]

So you will be getting A02 as well? Sweet!

I am also awaiting A02 and see if it can also pair with C9 better than Max. Eventhough I love and love this combination, the weight is a little >_< ... heh

 

[KickAssChewGum]

So you will be getting A02 as well? Sweet!

Yes! To go with the C9.

 

[Bosk]

Oh I am loving it! I was never into any stack as I have large speakers, desktop solutions, but as life goes on, I found myself more on the move.

RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen anywhere around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.

From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.

The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.

 

[bluestorm1992]

RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen anywhere around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.

From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.

The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.

Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.

The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.

 

[Bosk]

Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.

The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.

I've no doubt you're absolutely right about the C9. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to learn some TOTL desktop amps can push IEMs even further than it can. I think people assume because they're so small IEMs won't keep scaling with better sources & amps but I suspect one could spend many thousands on desktop electronics and hear their performance increase. Of course by that stage it may make more sense to simply plug in a TOTL headphone, which may be why most people wouldn't think to try it.

This could also explain why BA-based earphones have gained so much popularity, because DAPs are much more able to extract closer-to-full performance from them. Hybrids are also popular but their DDs are mostly used for sub bass so it doesn't matter how well they're driven to the same extent. What disappoints me is seeing people spend megabucks on cables for portable systems they only use at home, knowing if they put that money towards a C9 for example they'd probably be seeing MUCH more performance. I'm not saying that as a cable skeptic, but the capability of modern DAPs has almost created a culture of amp skeptics who falsely believe DAPs are giving their IEMs all the quality juice they could possibly need.

 

[KickAssChewGum]

Couldn’t agree more. Before getting C9 I have been listening under the assumption that TOTL DAPs should mostly likely have competent Amps, at least for IEMs. It was after getting C9 that I realized how much these DAPs are limited by their Amp section.

The improvement from C9 is far greater than what I expected. For example, the SE output from Lotoo PAW Gold has long been considered as one of the industry gold standards, even triumphing the SE from LPGT. I was surprised how much the improvement can be after pairing LPG with C9.

I’m in total agreement with this. I couldn’t believe the improvement with my SP2000 plugged into the C9 and absolutely wasn’t expecting it to be anywhere near as drastic as it is. I’d go as far to say that the C9 is actually the one component that I’ve ever bought that has the most significant effect on sound (for the better). I’m massively impressed by what Cayin have achieved here. The C9 has made me a Cayin devotee for life and it’s literally the first Cayin product I’ve ever bought. I cannot recommend the C9 enough!

 

[MarkParity]

Isn't the C9 going to generate a bigger interest in the A02? It already has, based on this thread.

I wouldn't want the A02 to become a product sold for 1000's on ebay, (see latest consoles or RTX graphics cards for examples)

Cayin, any plans to make more than 500 A02's now that you have made them a non-niche product, or should I buy all the available stock and put them on ebay and retire a very rich man.

 

[xand]

Cayin, any plans to make more than 500 A02's now that you have made them a non-niche product, or should I buy all the available stock and put them on ebay and retire a very rich man.

There's something earlier in this thread about how the current market price of two AKM 4497 (due to fire shortages)is more than the price of A02....

 

[MarkParity]

There's something earlier in this thread about how the current market price of two AKM 4497 (due to fire shortages)is more than the price of A02....

Digikey have them for around 40 UK£ and that's end user price, Cayin will be paying a fair bit less than that so the price has not gone crazy. (yet)

 

[Whitigir]

Digikey have them for around 40 UK£ and that's end user price, Cayin will be paying a fair bit less than that so the price has not gone crazy. (yet)

I think it is going to be just fine, already 6 months passed or so, AKM factory just be about to get up and running again.

RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now. Now that technology allows us to listen anywhere around the house or office without compromising fidelity (physical sensation of sub bass aside) it has become such an easy thing to embrace. I do sometimes miss the feeling of being viscerally overwhelmed by sheer waves of sound, but as someone who's always prioritized hearing every tiny nuance of every tiny instrument earphones & portable systems are a joy.

From a technical standpoint I guess the big advantage in terms of amplification would be not needing huge amounts of wattage to push massive drivers, making a battery-powered supply adequate. In fairness there's battery-powered speaker amps out there (IIRC Vinnie Rossi used to make them?) but I've read they lack dynamics. That's where I find something like the C9 is valuable, because even if you listen to IEMs directly out of a DAP and the dynamics seem fine, they can probably be improved substantially by adding an external amp. Pity audiophiles don't talk about dynamics more often as they're such a vital component (along with a black background) to great sound... but harder to quantify than something like soundstage width.

The other thing I've always found about having "too much" amplification is it makes you realize your DAP may be struggling to deal with complex passages, to the point where -and perhaps this is just me- you've found yourself subconsciously wincing when listening to a familiar track and you know one is coming up. That was always the big drawback of my AK380, a wimpy built-in headphone amp that would 'sag' whenever too much was happening in the music, yet sound completely dynamically-different on say girl/guitar albums where there was a lot less work for it to do. Things have come a long way, but I still don't have much faith in any DAP to deliver a cutting-edge dynamic performance using built-in amplfication alone - there simply isn't enough room for the circuitry! Full disclaimer though, I've yet to hear the DX220MAX or Kann Alpha and do recognize things are trending in the right direction. Probably less of an issue for anyone listening to all-BA earphones too.

Even as good as Max, the C9 elevates the sound performances and that I have to stack it up now. Previously, I wasn’t about to stack anything really, either staying DAP or swing a desktop, and speakers. Until now with C9 and I can’t go without C9. Therefore, a quality Line out is important to me. Yes, Max by far has the best Line out there is and the synergies is like “perfectly made” for one another.

Since C9 is so good, and while I didn’t like the N8 before, now I suddenly have interests in Cayin, and hope that A02 may be able to shave down some weight while having a different sound signatures but compliment the Max as a Line out source....or May be just for curiosity lol!!!

Why is A02 limited at 386Khz and DSD256 though ?

 

[cheznous]

I ordered from Musicteck before - Andrew is excellent to deal with and the price was good, but I got hit with a hefty customs tax fee in Austria. Other Euro members might have better luck, though, depending on their country.

Problem is that would add about 500 pounds once you add VAT any duty and current exchange rate. Nearer 2,000 pounds as opposed to 1,500 pounds.

 

[Whitigir]

Problem is that would add about 500 pounds once you add VAT any duty and current exchange rate. Nearer 2,000 pounds as opposed to 1,500 pounds.

I thought your dog has Korg tubes for eyes (in the avatar) lol! why don’t you wait a few weeks for new stocks in EU ? It would be time to look for cases and interconnect or so ?

 

[xand]

What an coincidence, I also gave my C9 some height as well!

OOH. What are those TAOC feet?

You should use Sorbothane, pick the size you want

Not some "proper" isolating feet, like maybe from TAOC if @lumdicks describes them?

RIP my speaker system that's has been collecting dust in a cupboard for years now.

Omg. Your cupboards must be huge.

Even as good as Max, the C9 elevates the sound performances and that I have to stack it up now.

Absolutely! SO NOICE.

Why is A02 limited at 386Khz and DSD256 though ?

Actually this is a good question. That's not true of other Dual AK4497EQ DAPs, e.g. Hiby R8.

If I had to guess, this is a function of the FPGA or USB chip in the N6ii (which isn't affected by motherboard).

 

[lumdicks]

OOH. What are those TAOC feet?

It is a spike isolator from TAOC made of high carbon cast iron. Some idle stuff from my home audio setup.

 

[gordec]

Anyone tried the 4.4 LO of M15? I'm thinking about getting the C9 but don't want to go through the process of switching DAP.