[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Like listening to Senn 650 headphones, full rich flowing relaxed sound without emphasis in treble region. Produces less treble grain, harshness and edginess when playing average sounding Cds, seems to be removing some noise/distortion other cables can pass along. Not sure what elements of old Empress cable used carbon.......

Thanks, was not sure what you meant

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL, I know that, I'm just tweaking him. If he doesn't know (or wants to pretend he can't imagine) what "grain" is..... There's a link somewhere on this site to a couple of dictionaries that explain audiophile jargon. He's a noob and should look them up so he can get up to speed. But that's not his game. He's going to claim there's no such thing as the phenomenon described by the term "grain" and will shortly ask us for the test and equipment which measures it.

I use a Wentworth particle scale chart to measure the size of grains

 

[883dave]

Would it be accurate to state that Carbon Cables are neutral?
Are they more or less neutral than other configurations of cables?
Could they be considered warm? if so in what frequency (general) band?

 

[Wolffy]

"Would it be accurate to state that Carbon Cables are neutral?
Are they more or less neutral than other configurations of cables?
Could they be considered warm? if so in what frequency (general) band?"

Depends on total construction, what other elements (metals if any) are used in conjuction with the carbon, and last but very much so not the least, the connectors and type of solder used. Like most cables of any type, the designer is responsible for the overall sound and performance based upon the amount of experimentation, trial and error, and philosophies on what sounds correct. And, of course, a lot of luck which saves money.

 

[tev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would it be accurate to state that Carbon Cables are neutral? Are they more or less neutral than other configurations of cables? Could they be considered warm? if so in what frequency (general) band?

I'd say they are neutral, but generally lean toward the warm side of things. The sonic traits of most carbon cables that I've heard are as follows:

Pros:

1) A continuum of sound, like analog. Carbon gives the feeling that you are hearing the flow of infinitesimally small details, rather than detached digital bits. There is a huge Wow effect here.

2) Ease. The Prat factor is not forced or pronounced in a hyper audiophiile way. The presentation and pace are very natural, but laid-back

3) Slighty rolled-off highs. Helps reduce listening fatigue on poor recordings.


Cons:

1) Slurring. This isn't a huge problem, but it rears its head on some recordings more than others.

2) Minor Tonal Coloration, mainly with brass instruments. They can sound a bit less metallic and solid than they do in the best acoustic. The best way to describe it is that they sound like a band playing outdoors, rather than in an enclosed space.

If anyone has doubts about the effects of IC's and Powercords on their system, they should listen to a Carbon Fiber product!

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tev /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd say they are neutral, but generally lean toward the warm side of things. The sonic traits of most carbon cables that I've heard are as follows: Pros: 1) A continuum of sound, like analog. Carbon gives the feeling that you are hearing the flow of infinitesimally small details, rather than detached digital bits. There is a huge Wow effect here. 2) Ease. The Prat factor is not forced or pronounced in a hyper audiophiile way. The presentation and pace are very natural, but laid-back 3) Slighty rolled-off highs. Helps reduce listening fatigue on poor recordings. Cons: 1) Slurring. This isn't a huge problem, but it rears its head on some recordings more than others. 2) Minor Tonal Coloration, mainly with brass instruments. They can sound a bit less metallic and solid than they do in the best acoustic. The best way to describe it is that they sound like a band playing outdoors, rather than in an enclosed space. If anyone has doubts about the effects of IC's and Powercords on their system, they should listen to a Carbon Fiber product!

Thanks, have been interested in these for a while, might pick up a set an hear for myself

 

[chesebert]

Grover's new SC carbon xlr I just received is one awesome cable...its not even burned in yet (brand new) and it's already a quite noticeable upgrade over the Mogami xlr I had. Mogami was not listenable because of its over-emphasized high (rather the source tend to accentuate the HF), Grover tamed the high, boosted the midrange..now I can finally enjoy my balanced connection...oh..boy..what a difference...now going from SE to balance is night and day

 

[brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tev /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd say they are neutral, but generally lean toward the warm side of things. The sonic traits of most carbon cables that I've heard are as follows: Pros: 1) A continuum of sound, like analog. Carbon gives the feeling that you are hearing the flow of infinitesimally small details, rather than detached digital bits. There is a huge Wow effect here. 2) Ease. The Prat factor is not forced or pronounced in a hyper audiophiile way. The presentation and pace are very natural, but laid-back 3) Slighty rolled-off highs. Helps reduce listening fatigue on poor recordings. Cons: 1) Slurring. This isn't a huge problem, but it rears its head on some recordings more than others. 2) Minor Tonal Coloration, mainly with brass instruments. They can sound a bit less metallic and solid than they do in the best acoustic. The best way to describe it is that they sound like a band playing outdoors, rather than in an enclosed space. If anyone has doubts about the effects of IC's and Powercords on their system, they should listen to a Carbon Fiber product!

What do you mean "slurring"?
Generally I agree with this short analysis. I'm amazed by the spatiality and delicacy of this cable. After replacing my old silver ICs I felt that stereo effect in many recordings was replaced by a spatial 3D volume which sounds absolute naturally. WOW.

The disadvantages I see at this point are a slightly dull sound of acoustic guitars and the slightly rolled-off highs ( which I'm not sure isn't "the truth" about the highs

). But these two problems are minor to the huge improvement of the soundstage plus this effortless and natural overall sound. Now all metal cables sound to me too "stereo" and too harsh... maybe I should try some "extreme high-end" ones....

 

[gotchaforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL, I know that, I'm just tweaking him. If he doesn't know (or wants to pretend he can't imagine) what "grain" is..... There's a link somewhere on this site to a couple of dictionaries that explain audiophile jargon. He's a noob and should look them up so he can get up to speed. But that's not his game. He's going to claim there's no such thing as the phenomenon described by the term "grain" and will shortly ask us for the test and equipment which measures it.

Damn its a simple question, but its funny how you got so bent out of shape.

You would think someone so confident with their adjectives would be able to throw out a confident answer and not need to mock someone and jump around the question.

Also does anyone else think its funny that theres an audiophile "dictionary"? you would think words would be able to carry a simple meaning when explaining a sound. Luckily its not like most of the words are just complete fluff and dont really describe anything haha!

However lets look at the head-fi dictionary:
"Grainy - A slightly raw, exposed sound which lacks finesse. Not liquid or fluid."

So grainless would mean its not raw or exposed at all... so that means its super smooth and very recessed! i would think that would be a bad thing? I dont know, even the dictionary seems to use words which are vague.

Of course i always thought grainy sound just meant "staticy", but and that grainless meant it eliminates all recording static from any record. This would have been truly incredible!

 

[tev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brat /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you mean "slurring"? Generally I agree with this short analysis. I'm amazed by the spatiality and delicacy of this cable. After replacing my old silver ICs I felt that stereo effect in many recordings was replaced by a spatial 3D volume which sounds absolute naturally. WOW. The disadvantages I see at this point are a slightly dull sound of acoustic guitars and the slightly rolled-off highs ( which I'm not sure isn't "the truth" about the highs ). But these two problems are minor to the huge improvement of the soundstage plus this effortless and natural overall sound. Now all metal cables sound to me too "stereo" and too harsh... maybe I should try some "extreme high-end" ones....

brat, by "slurring" I mean that transients seem a bit slower than what I hear from faster sounding cables. This was not a big issue on any of the various VDH and Wolff cables that I've auditioned. I actually think that the speed of these carbon products is closer to reality than the hyper articulation that you often hear from the reference cables offered by some of the big name manufacturers.

I second your comments on the spatiality/soundstage/natural flow. I don't understand why more companies don't explore the possibilities of CF.

 

[Tgun5]

Herse an interesting article on Van den hul's observations about using carbon.

http://www.vandenhul.com/userfiles/d...l_17_No_11.pdf

 

[dvw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgun5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Herse an interesting article on Van den hul's observations about using carbon. http://www.vandenhul.com/userfiles/d...l_17_No_11.pdf

It will interesting how one can line up Carbon atom. Van den Hul claimed he has an US patent on this (from the interview). All I can find are two Van den Hul patents on Cartridges issued in 1981. Anyone has this information? If it is issued in 1990, this will be public domain now, and anyone can use the technology.