[eitook]

Hi guys,

From my understanding, i do know that copper gives a warm, "atmospheric" sound while silver gives a "fast, tight and bright" sound.

Any idea what carbon does to the mix?

 

[JLai]

The carbon fiber will make the sound rev up and hit VTEC.

 

[eitook]

honda vtec huh...overdrive mode!

so does this mean i can conclude that it amplifies all attributes of the cable e.g. brightness, spaciousness, clarity, etc?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Carbon is a dielectric. It has been commonly used in resistors for years. Why would you want to add resistance to a cable?

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eitook /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi guys, From my understanding, i do know that copper gives a warm, "atmospheric" sound while silver gives a "fast, tight and bright" sound. Any idea what carbon does to the mix?

Alters the frequency response by adding resistance, I guess. I don't know why in the world you'd pay money to do that when you could just splice a resistor in there and get the same effect. Magic?

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

Depending on which allotropic form of carbon you have in there the sound will either be dark (sp2 graphite) or sparkly (sp3 diamond). It's possible even for the cable to sound tubey (CNT), although that would cost ya.

Why in the world would anyone make cables from carbon? Copper and silver are used because those are the two best electrical conductors in the periodic table. Carbon is not a metal and generally does not conduct electricity (except in the direction of the graphite sheet, but even then the conductivity is poor).

 

[Vul Kuolun]

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=192802

 

[eitook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Depending on which allotropic form of carbon you have in there the sound will either be dark (sp2 graphite) or sparkly (sp3 diamond). It's possible even for the cable to sound tubey (CNT), although that would cost ya. Why in the world would anyone make cables from carbon? Copper and silver are used because those are the two best electrical conductors in the periodic table. Carbon is not a metal and generally does not conduct electricity (except in the direction of the graphite sheet, but even then the conductivity is poor).

I got this off van den hul's website , http://www.vandenhul.com/artpap/hybrid.htm
and it got me thinking as well. to quote the website "Q: How does LSC “sound”?

A: When applied as an audio product, the “sound” is more natural and detailed compared to any metal cable.
The transfer of spatial information is strongly improved and the (with metals) typical distortion on the high frequencies makes way for a very natural and mild character, equivalent to live sound.
The often required hi-fi qualities in a soundsystem with extra pitch are out. Back is fatigue-free listening!
This fatigue-free listening originates from the fact that with LSC all frequencies stay in phase and maintain their harmonic structure. The brain does not need to filter-out or rework the (with metals) extra unnatural harmonics."

So I was wondering if anybody who has actually listened to these hybrids confirm the above?

 

[eitook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun /img/forum/go_quote.gif http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=192802

what's this link for?

 

[skullguise]

I've owned Van Den Hul all-carbon and hyrbids (The First and D-102 Mk III respectively).

The midrange with the all-carbon First cable to me was some of the most neutral I've EVER heard. With both tube and solid state, it just showed what the equipment in front of it was doing. A lot of folks who love the SET sound have used these (I sold one of my pairs to a very nice gent in Hawaii who had all tubes and loved these).

For me, though, the roll-offs in the frequency extremes (I assume due to capacitance, maybe other) was too much negative to offset that glorious midrange.

The D-102 Mk III Hybrids ALMOST mated the best of both worlds. It balanced out things a bit more, but I found the mids a little forward and colored, and the highs not as natural sounding as I'd like. Maybe it was a glare in the upper mids/lower treble, not sure; it's been a while since I listened to them in a good system, though I still have them.

Michael Wolff cables have consistently received good to great reviews, and he uses carbon quite a bit. I think his latest, which mix carbon with metals (Gold/Silver IIRC) have been recognized as his best ever.

I used to own a Wolff Carbon Source power cord, it was very nice; black background, no noise, tight bass, and perhaps some positive effects into the mids, can't recall.

Capacitance in Power Cords seems to be more a positive than IC's; TG Audio also had some higher capacitance PC's I believe, and I always loved their sound.

This is some of my direct experience, as well as what I've read here and elsewhere. Hope it helps.....

 

[JLai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eitook /img/forum/go_quote.gif honda vtec huh...overdrive mode! so does this mean i can conclude that it amplifies all attributes of the cable e.g. brightness, spaciousness, clarity, etc?

Actually I was just making fun of the fact that rice has now hit interconnects.

 

[eitook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skullguise /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've owned Van Den Hul all-carbon and hyrbids (The First and D-102 Mk III respectively). The midrange with the all-carbon First cable to me was some of the most neutral I've EVER heard. With both tube and solid state, it just showed what the equipment in front of it was doing. A lot of folks who love the SET sound have used these (I sold one of my pairs to a very nice gent in Hawaii who had all tubes and loved these). For me, though, the roll-offs in the frequency extremes (I assume due to capacitance, maybe other) was too much negative to offset that glorious midrange. The D-102 Mk III Hybrids ALMOST mated the best of both worlds. It balanced out things a bit more, but I found the mids a little forward and colored, and the highs not as natural sounding as I'd like. Maybe it was a glare in the upper mids/lower treble, not sure; it's been a while since I listened to them in a good system, though I still have them. Michael Wolff cables have consistently received good to great reviews, and he uses carbon quite a bit. I think his latest, which mix carbon with metals (Gold/Silver IIRC) have been recognized as his best ever. I used to own a Wolff Carbon Source power cord, it was very nice; black background, no noise, tight bass, and perhaps some positive effects into the mids, can't recall. Capacitance in Power Cords seems to be more a positive than IC's; TG Audio also had some higher capacitance PC's I believe, and I always loved their sound. This is some of my direct experience, as well as what I've read here and elsewhere. Hope it helps.....

Just the insightful remarks I was looking for. Thank you skullguise. From your opinion, would you classify the d102 hybrids as a generally aggressive and bright cable? I'm trying to tame my system down a bit, as it gets a little fatiguing at higher volumes; recommendations for warm and neutral cables would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Nick

 

[robert1325]

I've got that IC d102mkIII lying around to, Sound of cables is very system dependant ofcourse...

But in general :

It has this dark brownish tone, highs are smooth but very undefined, mids to bright splashy and the low-end is totally uncontrolled.... This was my first proper IC, but then I got the Speltz Anti-IC's . When I put the Vdhull back in my system I hear the cable , it gets in the way of the music, my system sounds dull !

The speltz anti-IC's are great, very very smooth in the high's but enough detail, mids are the best on this cable so defined and smooth with this nice slightly warmish tone. Low-end is very firm and tight... not flapping around with this IC!

Personally , I would never waste my money on a IC that sounds like the VDhull again.

 

[dura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skullguise /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've owned Van Den Hul all-carbon and hyrbids (The First and D-102 Mk III respectively). The midrange with the all-carbon First cable to me was some of the most neutral I've EVER heard. With both tube and solid state, it just showed what the equipment in front of it was doing. A lot of folks who love the SET sound have used these (I sold one of my pairs to a very nice gent in Hawaii who had all tubes and loved these). For me, though, the roll-offs in the frequency extremes (I assume due to capacitance, maybe other) was too much negative to offset that glorious midrange. The D-102 Mk III Hybrids ALMOST mated the best of both worlds. It balanced out things a bit more, but I found the mids a little forward and colored, and the highs not as natural sounding as I'd like. Maybe it was a glare in the upper mids/lower treble, not sure; it's been a while since I listened to them in a good system, though I still have them. Michael Wolff cables have consistently received good to great reviews, and he uses carbon quite a bit. I think his latest, which mix carbon with metals (Gold/Silver IIRC) have been recognized as his best ever. I used to own a Wolff Carbon Source power cord, it was very nice; black background, no noise, tight bass, and perhaps some positive effects into the mids, can't recall. Capacitance in Power Cords seems to be more a positive than IC's; TG Audio also had some higher capacitance PC's I believe, and I always loved their sound. This is some of my direct experience, as well as what I've read here and elsewhere. Hope it helps.....

Very recognisable!
I owned the First and found it rolled off at the extremes too; however I still have a First Ultimate which doesn't sound rolled off at all. Strangely enough t sounds almost the same as my DIY cable; solid core/silver/teflon/braided/eichmann-plugs but the latter has a sweeter treble.
No midbass warmth, extended feq extremes.
Frankly I use it for my tv-amp connection, preferring an Audioquest coral for my CDP.

I found the hybrid cables (D102, bay 5 etc.) sounding slightly unnatural, mechanical, can't put my finger on it exactly, probably the silverplating; good cables but not my taste.
So what exactly is this carbon magic? Don't know, doesn't really work for me I guess

 

[tev]

I've found that the length of a VDH The first Ultimate makes a considerable difference. A 1.5m cable will give a greater sense of ease and air than a .5m cable.